Upgrade ball joints?
- Thread starter ellner357
- Start date
cj80cruiser
Senior Member
From what ive gathered it isn't better. The only thing that gets upgraded is the tierod end while the balljoint is the same diameter. Maybe the casting is thicker and why people say they are beefier??
Tacoma balljoints fail as well. No zerk.
Unless you break out a tape measure and some chalk, you wont notice any change in turning radius. I can still pull Uturns in the same tight areas I have always been able to pull them.
Brian757
New member
I would have to agree with this because I get no turning limitations from my Moogs. When I purchase something for my 4Runner, believe me, I do not buy cheap. I do my homework and I wait to make my decisions...
The reason [MENTION=50342]JayRolla[/MENTION]'s lower ball joint failed was because they were factory ball joints(Im assuming from the, "I kept putting mine off." That is very deceiving to the OP because you made it seem like you installed aftermarket and that happened to you. 555 or Moog ball joints are not going to fail you OP.
The only reason I defend this silly argument is because I have measured OEM UBJ's & LBJ's to Beck/Arnley, 555, and Moog. There are size differences in the Beck/Arnley's to OEMs, I do agree that to some extent, these ball joints are not universal. But as far as NAPA brands, these things are no different.
Some of you guys need to stop putting OEM products on such a high pedistal. If some of you knew what you were buying inside that OEM box, you would buy "Auto Store Crap" as well.
I know I would buy OEM if my stealerships "Lifetime Warranty" wasn't that THEY had to install it or it doesn't carry the "Lifetime Warranty." So if I were to do my UBJ's and LBJ's myself, I ended up paying $200 after mail in rebates and coupons. Toyota dealer wanted $351.83 for both UBJ's, $324.37 for Lower Left, $336.61 for Lower Right BJ. for parts/labor and only THAT will cover the "Lifetime Warranty."(JUST called to verify) I have a lifetime warranty on my Moogs and as long as I remove them and bring them back to my AdvanceAuto, I get new ones. I'm happy with that. Sorry to rant!
Here's a link to the Moog "Problem Solver" boots: http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_En/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_27014_Boot_Design_En.pdf
Damn, OP, go with your gut. If OEM is in your mind, don't second guess it. All of what I have said is just my opinion.
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Gerdo
New member
OEM all the way.
Not all 555 parts are made the same. Not only do the "other guys" boots fail early but even when they don't, the balljoint typically wears out quicker than OEM. Been there, done that.
PS, you must uses 4runner LBJ and OTREs or Taco LBJ and OTREs as a pair, no mix and match. The shank on the Taco OTRE is larger.
Is the actual Taco LBJ (ball joint itself) bigger? I'm not sure.
I have not changed to Taco parts but have helped do some installs. There is something different about the bends in the shank of the two. The Taco one comes in contact with the swaybar mounts. As far as turning radius? It must be obvious because people have made the comment that they have noticed the larger turning radius (again I don't have Taco LBJs). Maybe that is a good thing. At full steering lock, there will be less bind on the CVs due to the reduced angles.
Not all 555 parts are made the same. Not only do the "other guys" boots fail early but even when they don't, the balljoint typically wears out quicker than OEM. Been there, done that.
PS, you must uses 4runner LBJ and OTREs or Taco LBJ and OTREs as a pair, no mix and match. The shank on the Taco OTRE is larger.
Is the actual Taco LBJ (ball joint itself) bigger? I'm not sure.
I have not changed to Taco parts but have helped do some installs. There is something different about the bends in the shank of the two. The Taco one comes in contact with the swaybar mounts. As far as turning radius? It must be obvious because people have made the comment that they have noticed the larger turning radius (again I don't have Taco LBJs). Maybe that is a good thing. At full steering lock, there will be less bind on the CVs due to the reduced angles.
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Brian757
New member
As with OEM parts not all being the same. But again, 555 is not notorious for weak boots, there have just apparently been a few issues here. I am not going to argue that Moogs are better than OEM or that the OP should buy Moog's over OEM. I am just saying that I have not had any issues with Moog and I have put them to the test, with my boots still looking just fine. I also greased my boots and marked my bolts. So I guess its on the installer as well.
I thought 555/Sankei was the OEM manufacturer?
Here is a video that outlines why the Moog ball joints suck:
NAPA Chassis Precision Engineered Ball Joints - YouTube
It's hard to tell the quality of a ball joint just from looking at the outside. Unless someone actually cuts open some LBJs for comparison, we may never know.
Here is a video that outlines why the Moog ball joints suck:
NAPA Chassis Precision Engineered Ball Joints - YouTube
It's hard to tell the quality of a ball joint just from looking at the outside. Unless someone actually cuts open some LBJs for comparison, we may never know.
Brian757
New member
I am not certain of the OEM BJ manufacturer so I didn't want to say anything, and I don't know.
Pretty cool video.
But exactly. A seizing BJ could not make it only the BJ but our lifts. And to only complain about the boot, then Federal Mogul is still doing their job. And +1 on the quality comment, but I wont be the guy hacking OEM and Moog BJ's apart
It boggles my mind how these big lifted Fords with Moog BJ's from my shop go dune hopping and never hurt their ball joints but our small 4Runners cant handle them? Maybe its cuz their transmissions fail before their ball joints
I looked up OEM Toyota Manufacturers and some say that Toyota "Re-Manufactures" things and that they also use 3rd Party manufacturers for various parts.
Here is the part of their site that lists all of the products they make themselves. (Notice no suspension parts are listed.) (Also, I was referred here by a Toyota Parts Representative for a list of OEM Toyota Parts.)
http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/parts-service/parts
Any part not located on this page is a re-branded piece of equipment through a 3rd party. Beck-Arnley is a common re-branded Toyota OEM part.
To be completely honest, imagine if Toyota had to produce all of their own parts. You wouldn't see vehicles every year from them if they had to do that. The only reason I say this is because some people are TOO comfortable with OEM products but they do not know whats in the box.
And don't compare your factory ball joints on your truck to OEM's today. Chances are, they are not built the same. I am sure Toyota has either changed BJ suppliers or BJ design has changed. Nothing is finite. We will all die in 2015 from the swine flu. (Sorry, that got heavy quick.)
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I keep reading on the forums that Sankei/555 is the OEM manufacturer and that if it is stamped with a 555, it should be good.
HOWEVER, I just bought LBJs from a dealer and my joints are stamped with an "NRA". The boot is a japanese "NOK" brand, which are known to be good. There is not a single "555" marking on my joints. So maybe Toyota is using new joints from a different supplier now. Who knows.
HOWEVER, I just bought LBJs from a dealer and my joints are stamped with an "NRA". The boot is a japanese "NOK" brand, which are known to be good. There is not a single "555" marking on my joints. So maybe Toyota is using new joints from a different supplier now. Who knows.
Brian757
New member
Federal Mogul has been changing around their brand names lately in the past couple of years. I would imagine Dealerships would want a more stable brand. So the NOK could just be a consist BJ producer, Japanese owned company. Sankei is located in Japan and go to their website and click on their "Products" page:
http://www.sankei-555.co.jp/
I found a parts warehouse for Toyota online. Here is their list of ball joints that are the latest in terms of BJ manufacturer usage and the first vehicles to bare these new changes.
I typed in my Year, Make, and Model and it showed that Toyota uses Sankei 555 for 96-02 4Runners.
When I pulled my Moogs out of their boxes, they had Three-Five(555) imprinted on them.
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Oops sorry that was a typo in my last post. The only stampings I see were:
Right LBJ:
NRA
MR
Left LBJ:
NLA
ML
I dont think those indicate the manufacturers, but rather, just the part for each side.
NOK manufactures seals, so in the case of my OEM LBJs, they only made the boot not the LBJ itself.
Right LBJ:
NRA
MR
Left LBJ:
NLA
ML
I dont think those indicate the manufacturers, but rather, just the part for each side.
NOK manufactures seals, so in the case of my OEM LBJs, they only made the boot not the LBJ itself.
Nelsonmd
New member
Man, how quickly people forget the previous discussions on this topic...
A couple clarifications:
1. 555 is not Moog. 555 is Sankei, a very large suspension company that supplies primarily the asian auto industry. SANKEI INDUSTRY CO., LTD.. They are a common OES for various asian brands, and are likely the OES for the 3rd gen 4runner.
Moog and other aftermarket brands often take OEM castings, like a ball joint, and re-pack them with new lube and rubber parts, then sell them under their own name. That doesn't mean they are OEM quality. If they were, then OEM's would do that too to save money (or contract with someone to do it for them).
2. Measuring the Moog part vs the oem part tells you jack squat about the quality or reliability of the part. Moog bought Toyota LBJ's once they came out, measured them, then recreated the ball joint by copying the OEM design. It's called reverse engineering and that's how the aftermarket industry works. Physical measurement says nothing about heat treatment, alloy selection, virgin/recycled raw materials, process tolerances, surface finishes, etc. These things are the bulk of what goes into the design, and separates the best from total crap.
3. Aftermarket companies have $0 liability in case of a wreck caused by their part. Read the fine print. They may offer a warranty of some sort on the part against defect, but they don't carry liability (liability and warranty are different). The OEM's carry tremendous liability for their parts, which is why vehicles get recalled regularly. BTW, I looked up Moogs warranty when I considered them for my ball joints, and while it was difficult to find, it only guaranteed against workmanship defects, not guaranteeing any kind of life or performance.
4. Aftermarket parts typically cost less than OEM parts, and are in competition with other aftermarket brands, so they can't spend as much money on testing and development as an OES that can take advantage of large volume production. Volume discounts on stuff like this are huge. They allow much more money to be spent on development and research.
5. Every day I see parts come back into my office that my company produced that failed in the field. When an OEM part fails under warranty, it gets sent back to the OEM, and then back to the original supplier, where it is studied, and the supplier (me) has to provide a full report on why this part failed, and if it is a real defect, what corrective actions are going to be put in place to prevent this failure from happening again. You would be amazed how much work and time (aka $$$) goes into this kind of thing. Aftermarket companies don't typically ask for parts back in my experience, and I guarantee they can't afford to put in the effort that the OES's do on failure analysis.
Also, the OEM does not profit on replacement parts, warranty parts, or service. That is ALL the dealership. The OEM does however have to stand behind their dealership service. So if a part fails because of improper dealer installation (which is not that hard to do, think of all the overtorqued LBJ bolts out there), then the OEM carries that liability too. If it's installed by the owner or a third party, then they have no idea if it was installed correctly. This is why they publish the FSM.
I would like to know how you can justify this statement. We're not talking about Chryslers here, we're talking about the #1 most reliable OEM year after year. I don't mean tot sound like a Toyota fanboy or anything, because I am not (I'd say the same about Honda or Subaru), but I have worked with most of the major auto companies out there, and I know that even Chrysler OEM parts are probably much better than "auto store crap". There may be cases of design flaws that drive the aftermarket stuff to be better, or if an aftermarket company has their own IP or costs more, but I have seen the pricing breakdown for what it takes to build automotive parts, and the suppliers sure aren't getting huge profit margins once you work in research and development.
Some examples that I would say break the rule of what I describe:
1. The lotus engineering CV's. We had some discussion on those, and I think they are probably much stronger than the OEM CV's because Lotus seems to have done their testing on them, and have probably chosen more expensive materials and manufacturing process than the OEM part. As a result, they cost alot more than OEM CV's.
2. A company like B&M. They specialize in coolers across any vehicle, so they are leveraging the entire auto market's volumes to drive their research, and not making model specific parts, but using their core IP to apply generically to any vehicle. Trade off here is that they don't have a "selected and approved" solution for every vehicle. The individual has to decide which cooler to put on their 3rd gen 4runner.
All in all, I definitely agree that dealer service is a rip-off, and I don't take mine there ever. BUT, if I had a new car that is under warranty, I promise you that every single covered service is getting done at a dealer, by their rules, and all that jazz, because that is what it take for the liability to remain on the OEM, and god forbid should a crash happen because of that vehicle, I will be getting a large settlement for my troubles. Plus, I will extend my dealer warranty if offered (assuming it has coverage for regular wear parts).
Also, I buy OEM parts only because you get what you pay for. Most dealers are a ripoff because they mark-up the parts beyond what they pay to Toyota for the part. Online dealers can treat it more like a commodity and only have to mark-up to cover the overhead of placing the order and the virtual inventory. That price ends up pretty competitive with similar quality aftermarket parts.
A couple clarifications:
1. 555 is not Moog. 555 is Sankei, a very large suspension company that supplies primarily the asian auto industry. SANKEI INDUSTRY CO., LTD.. They are a common OES for various asian brands, and are likely the OES for the 3rd gen 4runner.
Moog and other aftermarket brands often take OEM castings, like a ball joint, and re-pack them with new lube and rubber parts, then sell them under their own name. That doesn't mean they are OEM quality. If they were, then OEM's would do that too to save money (or contract with someone to do it for them).
2. Measuring the Moog part vs the oem part tells you jack squat about the quality or reliability of the part. Moog bought Toyota LBJ's once they came out, measured them, then recreated the ball joint by copying the OEM design. It's called reverse engineering and that's how the aftermarket industry works. Physical measurement says nothing about heat treatment, alloy selection, virgin/recycled raw materials, process tolerances, surface finishes, etc. These things are the bulk of what goes into the design, and separates the best from total crap.
3. Aftermarket companies have $0 liability in case of a wreck caused by their part. Read the fine print. They may offer a warranty of some sort on the part against defect, but they don't carry liability (liability and warranty are different). The OEM's carry tremendous liability for their parts, which is why vehicles get recalled regularly. BTW, I looked up Moogs warranty when I considered them for my ball joints, and while it was difficult to find, it only guaranteed against workmanship defects, not guaranteeing any kind of life or performance.
4. Aftermarket parts typically cost less than OEM parts, and are in competition with other aftermarket brands, so they can't spend as much money on testing and development as an OES that can take advantage of large volume production. Volume discounts on stuff like this are huge. They allow much more money to be spent on development and research.
5. Every day I see parts come back into my office that my company produced that failed in the field. When an OEM part fails under warranty, it gets sent back to the OEM, and then back to the original supplier, where it is studied, and the supplier (me) has to provide a full report on why this part failed, and if it is a real defect, what corrective actions are going to be put in place to prevent this failure from happening again. You would be amazed how much work and time (aka $$$) goes into this kind of thing. Aftermarket companies don't typically ask for parts back in my experience, and I guarantee they can't afford to put in the effort that the OES's do on failure analysis.
Also, the OEM does not profit on replacement parts, warranty parts, or service. That is ALL the dealership. The OEM does however have to stand behind their dealership service. So if a part fails because of improper dealer installation (which is not that hard to do, think of all the overtorqued LBJ bolts out there), then the OEM carries that liability too. If it's installed by the owner or a third party, then they have no idea if it was installed correctly. This is why they publish the FSM.
I would like to know how you can justify this statement. We're not talking about Chryslers here, we're talking about the #1 most reliable OEM year after year. I don't mean tot sound like a Toyota fanboy or anything, because I am not (I'd say the same about Honda or Subaru), but I have worked with most of the major auto companies out there, and I know that even Chrysler OEM parts are probably much better than "auto store crap". There may be cases of design flaws that drive the aftermarket stuff to be better, or if an aftermarket company has their own IP or costs more, but I have seen the pricing breakdown for what it takes to build automotive parts, and the suppliers sure aren't getting huge profit margins once you work in research and development.
Some examples that I would say break the rule of what I describe:
1. The lotus engineering CV's. We had some discussion on those, and I think they are probably much stronger than the OEM CV's because Lotus seems to have done their testing on them, and have probably chosen more expensive materials and manufacturing process than the OEM part. As a result, they cost alot more than OEM CV's.
2. A company like B&M. They specialize in coolers across any vehicle, so they are leveraging the entire auto market's volumes to drive their research, and not making model specific parts, but using their core IP to apply generically to any vehicle. Trade off here is that they don't have a "selected and approved" solution for every vehicle. The individual has to decide which cooler to put on their 3rd gen 4runner.
All in all, I definitely agree that dealer service is a rip-off, and I don't take mine there ever. BUT, if I had a new car that is under warranty, I promise you that every single covered service is getting done at a dealer, by their rules, and all that jazz, because that is what it take for the liability to remain on the OEM, and god forbid should a crash happen because of that vehicle, I will be getting a large settlement for my troubles. Plus, I will extend my dealer warranty if offered (assuming it has coverage for regular wear parts).
Also, I buy OEM parts only because you get what you pay for. Most dealers are a ripoff because they mark-up the parts beyond what they pay to Toyota for the part. Online dealers can treat it more like a commodity and only have to mark-up to cover the overhead of placing the order and the virtual inventory. That price ends up pretty competitive with similar quality aftermarket parts.
Brian757
New member
[MENTION=56021]Nelsonmd[/MENTION]: Ugh, thanks for summing up what we said?!
I dont get what you were getting at with the first section. We all knowthe manufacturers. I would say The quote you have of mine would be because Toyota uses many 3rd party vendors and rebrands them to OEM. That is common knowledge. I was using measuring as an arguments for people saying aftermarkets are huge and take away from steering.
No more arguments!! Ffffucckk!
What do you plan on going with OP!
Lets face it [MENTION=56021]Nelsonmd[/MENTION] and everyone. This argument is pointless. Its like arguing who the real God is. Also, we have far exceeded the answers to the OP. also, no noob is going to use the search function to find all this info
I dont get what you were getting at with the first section. We all knowthe manufacturers. I would say The quote you have of mine would be because Toyota uses many 3rd party vendors and rebrands them to OEM. That is common knowledge. I was using measuring as an arguments for people saying aftermarkets are huge and take away from steering.
No more arguments!! Ffffucckk!
What do you plan on going with OP!
Lets face it [MENTION=56021]Nelsonmd[/MENTION] and everyone. This argument is pointless. Its like arguing who the real God is. Also, we have far exceeded the answers to the OP. also, no noob is going to use the search function to find all this info
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Nelsonmd
New member
OK, well I didn't sum up what you said, you suggested that Moog is the same quality as the OEM part, and I gave several reasons why that is not true so that someone that doesn't know better doesn't assume your statement was true.
You said:
No one said that Moog's cost you turning radius, they said Taco LBJ's reduce turning radius. I think you misunderstood what was said.
Then there was:
Which is untrue, Federal Mogul is not OEM for Toyota. They may be for Chrysler or GM or Ford, or some other OEM for certain components, in certain years, but OE supplier selection is specific to 1 component/model/year, so even year to year within a vehicle generation can have different OE supplier for any specific component. Also, Moog is not an OES to Toyots for anything, and I doubt Federal Mogul is either.
Then:
Which is completely wrong, and is why I explained about the companies.
Brian757
New member
[MENTION=56021]Nelsonmd[/MENTION]:
Moog is same quality as OEM. Do a one on one test. THEN get back to me on this argument.
I did not say anyone told me Sankei brands are larger, I stated a problem in Tacoma BJ's that are not visible to the Moogs.
I did not say Federal Mogul was OEM for Toyota, I said that they are OEM manufacturers and most of their products are boxed differently and sold by the dealers. Yes, it could very well be Chrysler, but I did not specify who. Do not misconstrue my words.
WRONG. This is what [MENTION=90778]nobb[/MENTION] and I were discussing. We were trying to distinguish companies, vendors, manufacturers, etc.
SANKEI INDUSTRY.: Detailed Company Information, Imports & Exports
So here is the breakdown.
Sankei(Manufacturer) -> Federal Mogul(Suppliers)
Sankei makes 555 and Moog There is no doubt about this.
Sankei are Japanese OEM manufacturers. Sankei is OEM for Toyota. Do you get it?
Shoot, even these Beck/Arnley's have Three-Five(555) Sankei markings on them. Doesn't this make you question what you truly get at the dealership? ALL I am saying is don't put OEM on such a high pedistal! That is my ONLY point!!
Beck Arnley Ball Joint Pictures - YotaTech Forums
Some times when people go to their dealerships, they get Toyota Boxes with 555 on their parts.
Moog is same quality as OEM. Do a one on one test. THEN get back to me on this argument.
I did not say anyone told me Sankei brands are larger, I stated a problem in Tacoma BJ's that are not visible to the Moogs.
I did not say Federal Mogul was OEM for Toyota, I said that they are OEM manufacturers and most of their products are boxed differently and sold by the dealers. Yes, it could very well be Chrysler, but I did not specify who. Do not misconstrue my words.
WRONG. This is what [MENTION=90778]nobb[/MENTION] and I were discussing. We were trying to distinguish companies, vendors, manufacturers, etc.
SANKEI INDUSTRY.: Detailed Company Information, Imports & Exports
So here is the breakdown.
Sankei(Manufacturer) -> Federal Mogul(Suppliers)
Sankei makes 555 and Moog There is no doubt about this.
Sankei are Japanese OEM manufacturers. Sankei is OEM for Toyota. Do you get it?
Shoot, even these Beck/Arnley's have Three-Five(555) Sankei markings on them. Doesn't this make you question what you truly get at the dealership? ALL I am saying is don't put OEM on such a high pedistal! That is my ONLY point!!
Beck Arnley Ball Joint Pictures - YotaTech Forums
Some times when people go to their dealerships, they get Toyota Boxes with 555 on their parts.
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43346A PROTECTOR, FRONT LOWER BALL JOINT DUST COVER, RH
Not applicable
43346B PROTECTOR, FRONT LOWER BALL JOINT DUST COVER, LH
Not applicable
Please splain?
From here: ToyoDIY.com
and then here's this little tidbit...
Genuine Parts:
Q. What is the difference between "Genuine" Toyota Parts found on ShopTRD.com verses "OE" Fit or "Aftermarket" parts found on other websites?
A. Many websites have tricky wording when talking about parts; it's easy to think you're getting a "Great Deal!" only to later find that the parts you ordered that were "OE" Fitament were not Genuine Toyota OEM Parts. With "Genuine" Toyota Parts and Accessories (including Toyota Racing Development "TRD" and Scion Optomize Accessories), you can buy with the confidence that your part was designed and approved by Toyota and will seemlessly fit your vehicle with no retro-fitting needed. Additionally, "Genuine" Toyota Parts tend to be of a higher quality and more durable than immitation "OE" parts and come with a warranty of 12 months/12,000 miles or the remainder of your vehicle's warranty, whichever is greater. Every item found on ShopTRD.com is considered a Genuine Toyota Part or Accessory unless clearly noted otherwise. If you have any doubt or would like to know more, feel free to contact us...
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Brian757
New member
Not applicable most likely means they aren't selling just that part.
I know if any of you fall in this gray area, there IS a recall on our LBJ's and they can be replaced for free of charge at your local dealership.
(I guess OEM ISNT the best, when you search LBJ failure on Google images, its mostly 4Runners.) (I was lucky enough to get this link from [MENTION=69868]LittleCaesar[/MENTION])
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/problems-warranty-issues/71656-2001-lower-ball-joint-recall.html (2000-2002 I believe. Not sure.)
Here is the link to an OEM wholesaler. This link shows you the 2WD and 4WD, Left and Right UBJ boots. The LBJ's you must replace the entire ball joint. However, do not assume that boots ARE easy to change. Maybe the LBJ's but not the UBJ's. Remember that you have to take off the ball joint to put a new boot on. These BJ's are pressed in and require a lot of effort/time to get them out. Almost no one just changes their boots out. If you truly wanted to, you could buy Moog BJ's and OEM boots. But again, if your going to be anal about it, just buy an OEM ball joint and call it a day.
http://tps.toyotaofdallas.com/parts/2002/TOYOTA/4RUNNER/?siteid=214074&vehicleid=1388707§ion=FRONT%20SUSPENSION&group=FRONT%20SUSPENSION&subgroup=SUSPENSION%20COMPONENTS&component=Upper%20ball%20joint%20dust%20cap
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Nelsonmd
New member
OK, well here we go...
1 is not a valid sample size. I spoke in more generalities because quality/reliability is a statistic, which requires many datapoints. I have seen many datapoints in my work, and I spoke to that experience. My company doesn't make LBJ's, but we supply to every major auto company out there, and I have launched multiple products with these companies, so I know the process and how it is different from the aftermarket.
I don't even know what you are getting at now, but clearly the issue is misunderstanding, so let's just drop this one.
This makes no sense. They are OEM manufactures? They are not the OEM manufacturer for Toyota LBJ's. Done. They may be OES for other OEM's but other OEM's aren't #1 for reliability, so who cares what companies use them. Lower quality parts are why other companies aren't #1.
Glad you can use google... unfortunately you don't know what the google information means. You said that 555 is made by Federal mogul. That is wrong. 555 may be a supplier to Federal Mogul, beck arnley, and many others, but that doesn't mean that the 555 products that come through federal mogul are the same are the 555 parts that go through Toyota. Do you think that Toyota spends time and money working with Sankei to design and approve an LBJ, and then is just totally OK with Sankei then selling that part as is to aftermarket competitors? Does that make any sense? No, the part they sell to the aftermarket guys is different, and probably cheaper. Maybe they use a slightly cheaper steel alloy (which is why Moog, beck arnley, and other aftermarket crap rusts in a week when the OEM equivalent takes years to rust), or maybe they use lower process tolerances so that they don't reject as many parts, or maybe they don't heat treat the parts the same because Toyota demands a longer, more expensive HT process.
Did you know that Snap-on used to make Kobalt tools for Lowes? That doesn't mean they were the same quality. Not even close. Snap-on used lower quality steel, lower quality heat treatment, and lower quality chroming. Same thing goes for MAC, SK, FACOM, etc, they've all had their lower quality tool lines that they sold for less. Same thing applies to Sankei.
1 is not a valid sample size. I spoke in more generalities because quality/reliability is a statistic, which requires many datapoints. I have seen many datapoints in my work, and I spoke to that experience. My company doesn't make LBJ's, but we supply to every major auto company out there, and I have launched multiple products with these companies, so I know the process and how it is different from the aftermarket.
I don't even know what you are getting at now, but clearly the issue is misunderstanding, so let's just drop this one.
This makes no sense. They are OEM manufactures? They are not the OEM manufacturer for Toyota LBJ's. Done. They may be OES for other OEM's but other OEM's aren't #1 for reliability, so who cares what companies use them. Lower quality parts are why other companies aren't #1.
Glad you can use google... unfortunately you don't know what the google information means. You said that 555 is made by Federal mogul. That is wrong. 555 may be a supplier to Federal Mogul, beck arnley, and many others, but that doesn't mean that the 555 products that come through federal mogul are the same are the 555 parts that go through Toyota. Do you think that Toyota spends time and money working with Sankei to design and approve an LBJ, and then is just totally OK with Sankei then selling that part as is to aftermarket competitors? Does that make any sense? No, the part they sell to the aftermarket guys is different, and probably cheaper. Maybe they use a slightly cheaper steel alloy (which is why Moog, beck arnley, and other aftermarket crap rusts in a week when the OEM equivalent takes years to rust), or maybe they use lower process tolerances so that they don't reject as many parts, or maybe they don't heat treat the parts the same because Toyota demands a longer, more expensive HT process.
Did you know that Snap-on used to make Kobalt tools for Lowes? That doesn't mean they were the same quality. Not even close. Snap-on used lower quality steel, lower quality heat treatment, and lower quality chroming. Same thing goes for MAC, SK, FACOM, etc, they've all had their lower quality tool lines that they sold for less. Same thing applies to Sankei.
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