Used to sell cars, have advice if you are buying.

[Border411]

If you are a Costco memeber, just use their Auto Buying Program. I usoed to sell cars, and know all the little ins and outs re: buying a car and what the stealerships do to make money.

If you are a Costco memeber, use them to buy your car. I went thru Costco when I bought my 4runner, and I paid $150 over TRUE DEALER INVOICE. Also, if they try to make you pay for "Destination charge", tell them to F-off as the shipping of the truck to the dealership is already included in their invoice. Essentially, they want you to pay for it twice (since it is in the invoice and then again when selling it to you).

Also, be aware that if you go thru TMCC to finance, different amounts of down-payments can change the rate you got. I went to put down $4k, and my rate was 3.5% (I have excellent credit). I told them I would pay cash for the extended warranty, which would be another $1000. So, when the finance guy went to put in the computer I was putting down $5000, I went down to 3.25% APR! That saved me a couple hundred bucks right there! He stated, and I qoute, "We would normally keep the money from that drop, but I will give it to you." Gee----you freakin think!

I have also gone with many people to buy their cars and trucks through various manufacturers, and I have stumped more than 1 salesman! I seem to know more than they do. I was being trained to be a sales manager when I lived up in NY, so I knwo a lot more stuff than the average saleman.

If anyone has questions about what else to look out for, or buying advise, please let me know through this thread. I will try to answer as best and as many as I can.

 

[Sac State]

If you are a Costco memeber, just use their Auto Buying Program. I usoed to sell cars, and know all the little ins and outs re: buying a car and what the stealerships do to make money.

If you are a Costco memeber, use them to buy your car. I went thru Costco when I bought my 4runner, and I paid $150 over TRUE DEALER INVOICE. Also, if they try to make you pay for "Destination charge", tell them to F-off as the shipping of the truck to the dealership is already included in their invoice. Essentially, they want you to pay for it twice (since it is in the invoice and then again when selling it to you).

Also, be aware that if you go thru TMCC to finance, different amounts of down-payments can change the rate you got. I went to put down $4k, and my rate was 3.5% (I have excellent credit). I told them I would pay cash for the extended warranty, which would be another $1000. So, when the finance guy went to put in the computer I was putting down $5000, I went down to 3.25% APR! That saved me a couple hundred bucks right there! He stated, and I qoute, "We would normally keep the money from that drop, but I will give it to you." Gee----you freakin think!

I have also gone with many people to buy their cars and trucks through various manufacturers, and I have stumped more than 1 salesman! I seem to know more than they do. I was being trained to be a sales manager when I lived up in NY, so I knwo a lot more stuff than the average saleman.

If anyone has questions about what else to look out for, or buying advise, please let me know through this thread. I will try to answer as best and as many as I can.

Are all car salesmen really aliens with green tentacles?

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Re: Re: Re: Used to sell cars, have advice if you are buying.

I don't know about tentacles, but
maybe they have green testicles instead.

:arrow:

Seriously, though......I leased my '05 SR5 through the Costco program. Pretty good price without all that stupid haggling!

 

[solargroovy]

Border411, I am planning on ordering a T4R this month, and I could use some help. How can I find out what true dealer invoice is for the vehicle I am ordering? I have gone to several sites (Cars Direct.com, edmunds.com, etc.) that say they reveal invoice price, but how acurate are these sites? Couldn't the dealer be paying a different amount from "invoice price" as revealed on these sites?

I understand the dealership still makes money (due to holdbacks, etc.) when a vehicle is sold at invoice, and my plan at this point is to offer invoice (if I could just find out what that really is). I am fortunate in having several dealerships within reasonable distance. Also, I am not a member of Costco.

 

[Granth77]

If you want the actual invoice cost, just ask the dealer to show you the invoice. We show our invoices to anyone who asks. The holdback and finance reserve is right there on the invoice in the bottom left hand corner.

And I know some people are just enamored with the myth that dealerships show you a different invoice from the real one. I can only speak for my dealership, but I'm sure all the other ones are like us; who has time to make up fake invoices for 200+ new Toyotas on their lot?!

Ask the dealer for the invoice. Personally, I don't believe a dealer should have to get into their hold back and reserve on a vehicle. Feel free to flame that comment all you want! But, if you want to see the true cost, just ask the dealer for the invoice. They shouldn't have a problem with showing it to you. We don't.

Grant

 

[Border411]

Border411, I am planning on ordering a T4R this month, and I could use some help. How can I find out what true dealer invoice is for the vehicle I am ordering? I have gone to several sites (Cars Direct.com, edmunds.com, etc.) that say they reveal invoice price, but how acurate are these sites? Couldn't the dealer be paying a different amount from "invoice price" as revealed on these sites?

I understand the dealership still makes money (due to holdbacks, etc.) when a vehicle is sold at invoice, and my plan at this point is to offer invoice (if I could just find out what that really is). I am fortunate in having several dealerships within reasonable distance. Also, I am not a member of Costco.

They can be good resource tools, but I actually went to Consumer Reports and used their New Car Buying kit. You can print out all the info for a car that you are interested in and they will tell you the TRUE prices for everything (car, options, etc) and what the dealership charges you for the same thing. It helped a lot.


FYI---the Freedom of Information Act allows everyone to see a dealerships invoices. Ford was having issues where they were indeed making a false invoice to show to customers, but I believe they were caught and fined (aka-a F'n ton of money). I wouldnt worry about seeing a fake invoice now at days.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

It is a very shady business - always has been and probably always will. But what most do not realize is that the dealership's largest profit margins are seldom on new car sales alone.

Parts - very high markup

Service - extremely high markup

Used Cars - another chance for some $$$$ in the old pocket (buy at rock bottom price through trades and then mark 'em up at full retail on the lot)

Financing - kickbacks for folks who don't pay cash or have their own bank loan pre-approved

Insurance - a cash cow that is milked sometimes

Dealer "add ons" - like the $99 pinstripe that costs them five bucks; or the 'paint protection package' that probably consists of a nice coat of wax on a brand-new car; and the ever-growing list of sometimes gaudy accessories installed at the time of sale

I believe in capitalism, but some of those people give it a bad name.
:bash:

The "worst" thing you can do is have your own financing and don't trade in your old vehicle. Keep it or sell it outright yourself if at all possible.

:arrow:

 

[Border411]

It is a very shady business - always has been and probably always will. But what most do not realize is that the dealership's largest profit margins are seldom on new car sales alone.

Parts - very high markup

Service - extremely high markup

Used Cars - another chance for some $$$$ in the old pocket (buy at rock bottom price through trades and then mark 'em up at full retail on the lot)

Financing - kickbacks for folks who don't pay cash or have their own bank loan pre-approved

Insurance - a cash cow that is milked sometimes

Dealer "add ons" - like the $99 pinstripe that costs them five bucks; or the 'paint protection package' that probably consists of a nice coat of wax on a brand-new car; and the ever-growing list of sometimes gaudy accessories installed at the time of sale

I believe in capitalism, but some of those people give it a bad name.
:bash:

The "worst" thing you can do is have your own financing and don't trade in your old vehicle. Keep it or sell it outright yourself if at all possible.

:arrow:

I beg to disagree. If you sell your used car to a third party, and you do not give full disclosure as to what may be wrong, you can be looking at a lawsuit. We traded in my wifes Toyota Camry when we bought her Honda, and we got a very fair price. It would have been more time and energy to sell it privately.

Here is the trick when trading it in: Tell them you are not going to trade in. Then, when the deal is done for the car you are buying, you work the deal liek you are selling them your car. If they low-ball, tell them you are leaving and get up. Also say you want all the documents you signed re: the new car shreded. I guarantee the manager comes over to talk to you. Tell them: "I know right now you could get $---- for this car on your lot. I am basing this off of Kelly Blue Book AS WELL AS other estimates other dealers have given me." The key is to work it seperately.

 

[t4rfan]

Border411 - thanks for offering to help in dealing with the dealers. Here is a question I have on my upcoming potential trade-in for my 02 T4R: Why is there such a difference between nada used car pricing and kelly blue book? KBB says that my rig is worth about $15k in a tade-in, and about $21k retail (what the dealer would charge when selling the vehicle). Nada states that my rig should go for $19k in a trade-in, and $22k retail. Every dealer I've talked to says they use KBB values, but similar rigs on their used lots are listed for about $24k.
Thanks again!

 

[lockerc18]

Whenever I've tried to trade a car in in my area of NY, I've never understood why the dealer would give me such a lower trade in than what NADA or KBB would say I should get. But one time, I saw the dealer refer to a different book to get the trade value, and that book was Galves. So when I bought my 4Runner and wanted to do a trade in, I went to galves.com to see what the dealer would actually offer me for my old car. That was a lot lower than KBB or NADA or Edmund's, but it matched what the offer was pretty closely. It sucked, but at least I knew more about how he was playing the game.

I tend to think that KBB and NADA and the rest are really just tools that the auto industry uses to fix car prices across the industry, to maintain their control and monopoly. These tools really aren't as consumer-oriented as you might think.

 

[toybox]

They can be good resource tools, but I actually went to Consumer Reports and used their New Car Buying kit. You can print out all the info for a car that you are interested in and they will tell you the TRUE prices for everything (car, options, etc) and what the dealership charges you for the same thing. It helped a lot.


FYI---the Freedom of Information Act allows everyone to see a dealerships invoices. Ford was having issues where they were indeed making a false invoice to show to customers, but I believe they were caught and fined (aka-a F'n ton of money). I wouldnt worry about seeing a fake invoice now at days.

If you used Consumer Reports for the invoice price then why did you need to use Costco's buying program? What else did the Costco program offer?

 

[a3fnqpjw]

I bought my truck through the costco program and i put $5k down, 0% apr, and it'll be paid off next year (mines an 05). Personally i think it's great that they have it. I also paid invoice.

 

[Bluto]

If you sell your used car to a third party, and you do not give full disclosure as to what may be wrong, you can be looking at a lawsuit.

Any info on this? Seems like an urban myth or something a car salesman would say. Are there discolsure laws for private auto sales?

 

[01silverSR5]

Any info on this? Seems like an urban myth or something a car salesman would say. Are there discolsure laws for private auto sales?

I was always under the impression that when you sell a used car it is sold as is/where is. I have sold about 25 cars in the last 5 years and have always told the buyer "car is sold as is where is". I have had no problems.

Obviously, it is easier and more convenient to trade your used car in, but it may not always the most beneficial thing to do. Way your options, how much tax could you save if you traded it in (you only pay tax on the difference of the car you are buying and the car you traded in). In my experience, it has always worked out to sell the car to a private party.

This is just my .02.