Using Toyota ATF Type T-IV with unknown current fluid

[cdg11343]

I just put Valvoline Maxlife ATF in my '98

Hey all, here's my story.

I picked up a '98 SR5 4WD automatic late last year with a broken transmission dipstick. After changing everything except the transmission fluid, it was still sluggish on the get up and go.

I ended up dropping the pan after draining coffee like fluid out of it. Couldn't get the broken piece out of the pan --- ended up getting a new pan.

Anyhow, I went with Valvoline Maxlife ATF in mine. I measured out a little over 6qts from what drained over the time I had the pan off. While I was there I replaced the transmission filter.

(see YouTube)

Poured in the equivalent amount of Valvoline Maxlife ATF, and took her for a spin. Immediately noticed a difference in pickup, although it was probably related to the new transmission filter.

At this point I knew I was about 50/50 old coffee fluid and new Valvoline, so after warming it up I drained it again. Got about 3qts of purplish fluid out. Refilled with equivalent Valvoline. Started up, took her for another spin, shifted through all the gears manually, and measured the fluid. Was showing quite low, and ended up taking another 3/4s of a quart before got up in the hot range.

I now how have 2 new quarts left from my original 12 that I was planning on putting in, so I ordered another 2 quarts. After putting some mileage on to work the gunk out I'll drain and refill again.

I went with Valvoline Maxlife ATF in mine because Timmy the Toolman recommends it AND my master toyota mechanic uncle who trains the techs at dealers recommended it.

My '98 (now) runs like I expected it to when I got it ... like a V6 instead of a 4-banger. But again that may be because of the transmission filter...


EDIT: 231k miles on it. I have no idea if the transmission fluid was ever changed or not. If I was to do it all again, and I had the funds, I'd go for Royal Purple instead of Valvoline. Seems to be higher quality stuff.

 

[T4R2014]

Well, the complete lack of solid information from either the forum or Toyota, or the aftermarket is beyond frustrating. The TSB clearly says that the T-IV isn't compatible with our transmissions. Toyota doesn't offer a Dexron III fluid. The Maxlife clearly says that it's a DEX III replacement. I didn't see it mentioned being a replacement for the WS or T-IV.

I don't know anymore at this point, I'm frustrated with the whole ordeal. Most people using the Maxlife seem to think that it works well. I'll have to wait and see, and hopefully not destroy the old transmission in the process.

Read the back of the bottle. It meets pretty much every spec. Nissan matic, Mitsubishi Diamond, Toyota IV and Toyota WS. Just because it says Dex/Merc does not mean it is a pure Dexron 3 like GM specified in 1999. Dex/Merc means anything these days. Mobil DM is the closest you'll get to factory fill Dexron. If you read spec sheets for Maxlife it is thinner than your average Dexron.

 

[Dieselchessy]

You realize you just swapped out genuine T-IV fluid for an aftermarket multi-vehicle fluid that also meets T-IV spec, right? Matter of fact, I bet the shifting problem has to do with Maxlife ATF being more similar to Toyota WS than a Dexron 3. In other words, it is too thin. You were better off with the Type-IV. I had the same issue with Maxlife.

He drained a fluid Toyota says specifically not to use, and then filled the tranny with fluid that the manufacturer says is compatible, and that many folks have had good luck with.

I’d more expect his temporary shifting issue was due to air in the system or some other anomaly caused by the fluid exchange.

When I exchange tranny fluid I always let the vehicle run at a stop and cycle it through all the gears a few times leaving it in each gear for several seconds. I do this hoping it will move out any air I may have introduced.

 

[T4R2014]

He drained a fluid Toyota says specifically not to use, and then filled the tranny with fluid that the manufacturer says is compatible, and that many folks have had good luck with.

I’d more expect his temporary shifting issue was due to air in the system or some other anomaly caused by the fluid exchange.

When I exchange tranny fluid I always let the vehicle run at a stop and cycle it through all the gears a few times leaving it in each gear for several seconds. I do this hoping it will move out any air I may have introduced.

Which manufacturer? Valvoline? I don't think Toyota said to use a multi-vehicle fluid marketing as a Dexron but resembling Toyota WS. Sure it will work for a while, but on higher mile vehicles that viscosity will cause poor shifting.

 

[cdg11343]

Which manufacturer? Valvoline? I don't think Toyota said to use a multi-vehicle fluid marketing as a Dexron but resembling Toyota WS. Sure it will work for a while, but on higher mile vehicles that viscosity will cause poor shifting.

Hello, what do you recommend then?

 

[T4R2014]

Hello, what do you recommend then?

For Dexron 3 sticklers really trying to keep it pure, Mobil D/M. Mobil makes the OEM fluids like Type IV(3309) and WS(3324). They manufactured the OEM Dexron. It is becoming as hard to find as OEM Dexron but it is out there.

If you aren't afraid of Type IV, use it. Almost every major Dex/Merc fluid is backwards compatible with it. Redline D4(my pick), Amsoil ATF, Castrol IMV, and even Maxlife if you aren't afraid of a little WS. Many Aisins that came with Dexron now recommend 3309.

Point is, if transmissions aren't failing of Maxlife, I'm sure Type IV won't kill them.

 

[cdg11343]

For Dexron 3 sticklers really trying to keep it pure, Mobil D/M. Mobil makes the OEM fluids like Type IV(3309) and WS(3324). They manufactured the OEM Dexron. It is becoming as hard to find as OEM Dexron but it is out there.

If you aren't afraid of Type IV, use it. Almost every major Dex/Merc fluid is backwards compatible with it. Redline D4(my pick), Amsoil ATF, Castrol IMV, and even Maxlife if you aren't afraid of a little WS. Many Aisins that came with Dexron now recommend 3309.

Point is, if transmissions aren't failing of Maxlife, I'm sure Type IV won't kill them.

Thanks! If I do this again, I'll use Redline.

 

[brillo_76]

For Dexron 3 sticklers really trying to keep it pure, Mobil D/M. Mobil makes the OEM fluids like Type IV(3309) and WS(3324). They manufactured the OEM Dexron. It is becoming as hard to find as OEM Dexron but it is out there.



If you aren't afraid of Type IV, use it. Almost every major Dex/Merc fluid is backwards compatible with it. Redline D4(my pick), Amsoil ATF, Castrol IMV, and even Maxlife if you aren't afraid of a little WS. Many Aisins that came with Dexron now recommend 3309.



Point is, if transmissions aren't failing of Maxlife, I'm sure Type IV won't kill them.

For me it's about a non slipping and properly functioning transmissions.

The 2 TB are clear. That if you do decide to put T4 or WS in your transmissions. You run the chance of having transmission issues because the fluid is too different.

Toyota doesn't release TB unless there is some kind of issue. If it works for some users great. As it's their rig and not a problem.

I have just seen posts and documentation on the internet that some folks transmissions starting sleeping like crazy when they put T4 in it. When they went back to a dexron equivalent their transmissions worked properly.

I didn't know dexron was mfg by Mobil. I believe Castro mfg the Toyota WS. However, I never verified that WS.






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[T4R2014]

For me it's about a non slipping and properly functioning transmissions.

The 2 TB are clear. That if you do decide to put T4 or WS in your transmissions. You run the chance of having transmission issues because the fluid is too different.

Toyota doesn't release TB unless there is some kind of issue. If it works for some users great. As it's their rig and not a problem.

I have just seen posts and documentation on the internet that some folks transmissions starting sleeping like crazy when they put T4 in it. When they went back to a dexron equivalent their transmissions worked properly.

I didn't know dexron was mfg by Mobil. I believe Castro mfg the Toyota WS. However, I never verified that WS.






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Maxlife is a WS compliant fluid. You can't meet that spec without going to a lower viscosity. You are technically going against the technical bulletin with Maxlife.

 

[cdg11343]

For me it's about a non slipping and properly functioning transmissions.

The 2 TB are clear. That if you do decide to put T4 or WS in your transmissions. You run the chance of having transmission issues because the fluid is too different.

Toyota doesn't release TB unless there is some kind of issue. If it works for some users great. As it's their rig and not a problem.

I have just seen posts and documentation on the internet that some folks transmissions starting sleeping like crazy when they put T4 in it. When they went back to a dexron equivalent their transmissions worked properly.

I didn't know dexron was mfg by Mobil. I believe Castro mfg the Toyota WS. However, I never verified that WS.

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I'm sorry, I'm a newbie. What's T4 and WS?

It seems things are more complicated than they should be.

The manual for my '98 says this (copy/paste):

Automatic transmission fluid D−II or DEXRON III (DEXRON II)

The specs for MaxLife says compatible with Dextron III among a ton of other things. How is anybody to know it could cause problems as you say it could?

The specs for RedLine D4 also says Dextron III and a ton of other things.

If this is such a big deal, why not just use Toyota ATF WS fluid? Which my manual makes no mention of.

I'm thoroughly confused.

<scratches head>

EDIT: I found this technical bulletin. Doesn't say anything about 3rd gen T4Rs?

EDIT #2: I think I understand now. T4 and WS are specific makes of ATFs. I think the point being made here by T4R is the 'multi-vehicle' fluid, being compatible with "almost everything". Which means specific Dextron III fluid like RedLine D4 is higher quality. Also, the Toyota ATF WS is for specific transmissions. My 98, and I'm guessing all 3rd gen T4Rs, don't use it. Maybe this info will be useful for someone else and save them some money! I'm probably going to be returning my unopened Valvoline MaxLife and switch to RedLine.

 

[Dieselchessy]

Redline D4 is compatible with most the same stuff as Maxlife, including T-IV.
But.....it does have a viscosity more in line with Dex III standards.

Some folks just don't like any of the "Multi-vehicle" or "Varied Fleet" lubes.

Its not that big of deal. Fill it up with Valvoline Dex/Merc, Maxlife, Redline D4, Mobile D/M ect…. If you don't like the way it shifts, slipping, hunting, ect… then try another fluid.

Most folks go to Jiffy Lube, Oil Can Henry's, the Dealer, Big O tires, you name it. The shop throws is whatever bulk DEX III equivalent they have on tap and the customer drives away happy.

These Trannies aren't grinding to a halt because someone's Dex III equivalent lube isn't equivalent enough.

 

[brillo_76]

Maxlife is a WS compliant fluid. You can't meet that spec without going to a lower viscosity. You are technically going against the technical bulletin with Maxlife.

WS is not compatible with our trucks{ well technically thats not documented anywhere} .. That's funny as its a lower viscosity oil.. Very interesting indeed. Oh well.

 

[cdg11343]

Redline D4 is compatible with most the same stuff as Maxlife, including T-IV.
But.....it does have a viscosity more in line with Dex III standards.

Some folks just don't like any of the "Multi-vehicle" or "Varied Fleet" lubes.

Its not that big of deal. Fill it up with Valvoline Dex/Merc, Maxlife, Redline D4, Mobile D/M ect…. If you don't like the way it shifts, slipping, hunting, ect… then try another fluid.

Most folks go to Jiffy Lube, Oil Can Henry's, the Dealer, Big O tires, you name it. The shop throws is whatever bulk DEX III equivalent they have on tap and the customer drives away happy.

These Trannies aren't grinding to a halt because someone's Dex III equivalent lube isn't equivalent enough.

Thanks, I was thinking along the same theme.

Except most people don't put 500lbs of steel on their vehicle and drive in crazy places in southern AZ when it's 100 degrees outside.

Makes me think I should use higher quality thicker viscosity stuff?

 

[brillo_76]

I'm sorry, I'm a newbie. What's T4 and WS?

It seems things are more complicated than they should be.

The manual for my '98 says this (copy/paste):

Automatic transmission fluid D−II or DEXRON III (DEXRON II)

The specs for MaxLife says compatible with Dextron III among a ton of other things. How is anybody to know it could cause problems as you say it could?

The specs for RedLine D4 also says Dextron III and a ton of other things.

If this is such a big deal, why not just use Toyota ATF WS fluid? Which my manual makes no mention of.

I'm thoroughly confused.

<scratches head>

EDIT: I found this technical bulletin. Doesn't say anything about 3rd gen T4Rs?

EDIT #2: I think I understand now. T4 and WS are specific makes of ATFs. I think the point being made here by T4R is the 'multi-vehicle' fluid, being compatible with "almost everything". Which means specific Dextron III fluid like RedLine D4 is higher quality. Also, the Toyota ATF WS is for specific transmissions. My 98, and I'm guessing all 3rd gen T4Rs, don't use it. Maybe this info will be useful for someone else and save them some money! I'm probably going to be returning my unopened Valvoline MaxLife and switch to RedLine.

The TB are from this thread
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-...do-you-use.html?highlight=transmission+fluids

post #8

You can use Redline D4 if you wish.

1996-2000 or so are Dex II
01 -02 use Dex III

The confusion comes in because some of Toyota transmissions used Dex Fluid The T1, T2, T3, T4 and Technical bulletins came out against T4 fluid { when these came out Toyota WS was not out yet it was a few years later mid 2000s I believe}

As time went on folks started finding that some of the fluids dont function properly in order transmissions.

Toyota went to WS as one transmission fluid world wide which others have mentioned is a lower viscosity oil and mostly likely will not function properly in our 3rd gen Transmissions.


Your getting it T fluid is Toyota Fluid and the Dexron fluid is industry specific for certain characteristics.

WS is just the one of the newer Toyota specific fluids. The major confusion is that some of the Toyota fluids that replace other fluids don't play nice with the transmissions. Which should not have happened.

However, since Toyota doesn't specifically make their transmissions {Aisin-Warner does } This transmission {A340F} was used from 1985 -2004 with some slight variations.

 

[Dieselchessy]

Thanks, I was thinking along the same theme.

Except most people don't put 500lbs of steel on their vehicle and drive in crazy places in southern AZ when it's 100 degrees outside.

Makes me think I should use higher quality thicker viscosity stuff?

You probably want to look more at how well the lube survives heat without breaking down and degrading more so than the starting new out of the bottle viscosity numbers.

Radline D4 claims better high temp operational characteristics......

 

[19963.4lsr5]

You probably want to look more at how well the lube survives heat without breaking down and degrading more so than the starting new out of the bottle viscosity numbers.



Radline D4 claims better high temp operational characteristics......

I really like the Pennzoil Multi Vehicle Synthetic as a DEX3 and mopar ATF+4 & +3. It’s VI is really high like 180 or higher. Knowone talks about it. My friends trans swears about it and I use it.

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[cdg11343]

You probably want to look more at how well the lube survives heat without breaking down and degrading more so than the starting new out of the bottle viscosity numbers.

Radline D4 claims better high temp operational characteristics......

Good idea! What spec is that?

Someone mentioned VI, which I guess is Viscosity Index?

I looked up some specs:

Royal Purple: VI of 170

Valvoline Maxlife: VI of 156

RedLine D4: VI of 188

RedLine High Temp: VI of 220!

Pennzoil ATF: VI of 182*

*The Pennzoil one was hard to figure out. Their website is the most confusing of them all. This one looks like their Dex III ATF.

If VI is the important thing, then seems RedLine High Temp ATF is my winner?

 

[2ndhandyotaman]

Although at this point I'm done with the " this fluid should work.." game, I did find some DEX III right at my local chevy parts dept. Just DEX III, nothing else. not multi-fluid, not synthetic blend. It's supposed to be straight up DEX III, at about $12/Qt. If I have any issues with this Maxlife, I'll just go straight to the local Chevy dealership parts dept and try that.

 

[brillo_76]

Although at this point I'm done with the " this fluid should work.." game, I did find some DEX III right at my local chevy parts dept. Just DEX III, nothing else. not multi-fluid, not synthetic blend. It's supposed to be straight up DEX III, at about $12/Qt. If I have any issues with this Maxlife, I'll just go straight to the local Chevy dealership parts dept and try that.

You wont have any issues unless something is wrong with the transmission itself. synthetics are far superior to conventional. Tetanus 1 has been running a generic multi fluid for almost 5 years and over 50 k miles. Without any issues.

That's if your filter and magnets in the pan are changed and cleaned on occasion as well.

The problems arise when the transmission already has issues and damage and folks think changing the fluid and filter will fix it. At that point. It's way too late.

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[T4R2014]

If VI is the important thing, then seems RedLine High Temp ATF is my winner?

It could be, but if your temps are getting high so often you may want to look into your transmission cooling situation first. Heat is not your friend regardless of ATF.