Valve tick on startup hot or cold?

[Door Ding]

Ive got a 2005 V8 sports with 173k miles. previous owner was religious about 5k mile oil change intervals at toyota with 5w30 conventional Toyota oil from when he bought the truck with 55k miles verified by maint records. I bought it with 161,xxx in August.

I have what sounds to me like a lifter tick on startup for just a few seconds almost every time I start the truck, hot or cold. The only exception is if I've just shut it down and immediately restarted it in which case I don't hear it. I literally lasts about 2 seconds, maybe 3 at the most.

There is no ticking after the 2-3 second initial hearing of the sound. I do have a slight manifold tick on the drivers side when i accelerate lightly, but this is definitely a different sound.

I have been considering switching to synthetic in an attempt to stop the sound at startup which is undoubtably causing unnecessary wear on the valvetrain ( I run synthetic in all my vehicles) but am unsure if this is wise on a vehicle with this high of mileage or if it would even stop the noise.

I don't think this is piston slap as it happens when warm and cold in all types of temps.

Is there anyone else out there that has this same startup issue/noise?

 

[catrains]

conventional oil and 5k oil changes IMO not good. 3500-4K miles is what I have done in the past. this is with a mix of hywy and city every 3 months changed the oil.

with conventional oil short runs more problems ...
the sludge builds up then the oil leaks down then the ticking on cold start. synthetic no sludge water and the oil do not mix. I would also check/replace PCV esp with that oil used. PCV can be plugged or worn down .

 

[Door Ding]

Thanks! I'll do shorter interval if I stay with conventional.

I should mention that I typically do 140-180 miles a day mostly highway. Ill look into the pcv valve, as Im sure it hasnt been changed out.

Can you think of anything I could do to prevent the oil from leaking back down into the pan?

Should I worry about sludge removal causing leaks with this high of mileage if I change to synthetic? Maybe a synthetic blend might be a better choice here?

 

[AuSeeker]

FYI for what it's worth, in these Toyota overhead cam engines you DO NOT have hydraulic lifters or pushrods, the cam lobes are in direct contact with the valve, so the ticking you're hearing is not a hydraulic lifter or bend pushrod, but your issue if it is a valve could be most likely one of the shims/cups on top of the valves that creates the proper valve clearance being worn down over time/mileage.

 

[catrains]

Thanks! I'll do shorter interval if I stay with conventional.

I should mention that I typically do 140-180 miles a day mostly highway. Ill look into the pcv valve, as Im sure it hasnt been changed out.

Can you think of anything I could do to prevent the oil from leaking back down into the pan?

Should I worry about sludge removal causing leaks with this high of mileage if I change to synthetic? Maybe a synthetic blend might be a better choice here?

THAT amount of driving daily should not cause a sludge problem but the conventional oils may not handle the longer use , and loose the ability to lube the engine components. replace the PCV , most times that part is ignored.

I would try the synthetic see if it helps.. change the oil when hot give it time to drain out.

the oil pump may also take longer to create pressure on a cold start due to wear. synthetic oil does flow faster so it may help reduce it or fix it..

 

[Door Ding]

Yeah I figured the pcv needs to be changed...

So I went back out to verify the duration when hot. I ran the truck about an hour ago and when I just restarted, I got about a half second of tick. It's about 30 degrees out currently if that helps diagnose anything...

I guess I'll go with 5w30 synthetic then.

 

[catrains]

Thanks! I'll do shorter interval if I stay with conventional.

I should mention that I typically do 140-180 miles a day mostly highway. Ill look into the pcv valve, as Im sure it hasnt been changed out.

Can you think of anything I could do to prevent the oil from leaking back down into the pan?

Should I worry about sludge removal causing leaks with this high of mileage if I change to synthetic? Maybe a synthetic blend might be a better choice here?

I forgot to mention a ticking on a cold start maybe the exhaust manifold has a crack.. very small... then as it heats up goes away quickly. I had this happen on another V8 engine. it was a manifold bolt broke off ..sounded like a rod ticking .

with your engine this has been reported.

these have tappets and shims no lifters.

 

[CXS]

conventional oil and 5k oil changes IMO not good. 3500-4K miles is what I have done in the past. this is with a mix of hywy and city every 3 months changed the oil.

Are you an old guy like me [MENTION=138935]catrains[/MENTION]? The old 3k oil change is a carry over from the old days. When I got my first job in a service station 3k was recommended but that was 50 years ago. Oil quality has come a long way and 5k is fine.

Here's a random snip from Edmunds on the subject.

"While the car-servicing industry is clear about its reasons for believing in the 3,000-mile oil change, customers cling to it only because they're largely unaware of advances in automotive technology. Among 2013 models, the majority of automakers call for oil changes at either 7,500 or 10,000 miles based on a normal service schedule, more than double the traditional 3,000-mile interval. The longest oil change interval is 15,000 miles for all Jaguar vehicles. The shortest oil change interval is 5,000 miles in some Hyundai and Kia models with turbo engines and Toyota vehicles that call for non-synthetic oil. Toyota has been shifting its fleet to 10,000-mile oil change intervals using synthetic oil."

Just my 2¢. :thumb:

 

[AuSeeker]

Are you an old guy like me [MENTION=138935]catrains[/MENTION]? The old 3k oil change is a carry over from the old days. When I got my first job in a service station 3k was recommended but that was 50 years ago. Oil quality has come a long way and 5k is fine.

Here's a random snip from Edmunds on the subject.

"While the car-servicing industry is clear about its reasons for believing in the 3,000-mile oil change, customers cling to it only because they're largely unaware of advances in automotive technology. Among 2013 models, the majority of automakers call for oil changes at either 7,500 or 10,000 miles based on a normal service schedule, more than double the traditional 3,000-mile interval. The longest oil change interval is 15,000 miles for all Jaguar vehicles. The shortest oil change interval is 5,000 miles in some Hyundai and Kia models with turbo engines and Toyota vehicles that call for non-synthetic oil. Toyota has been shifting its fleet to 10,000-mile oil change intervals using synthetic oil."

Just my 2¢. :thumb:

I'm old and "old school" as well but I have kept up with the times and do 5000 miles oil changes.

That being said I do miss the old days when everything from your toaster to cars and trucks had all the misc. parts built in such a way that you could DIY and rebuld almost every part instead of how it is today and you have to buy the entire assembly for 100s or 1000s of dollars!!!

 

[catrains]

I switched to all synthetics back in 1998 . reason was to save on time and $$$. I did the 3500-4000 mile conventional oil changes prior to that . this was a mix of hywy and city. did this going back to the 60's. one vehicle I owned 17 yrs ran perfectly the day I sold it 380K miles .. not even a valve cover was removed ... conventional oil I do not recommend changing oil at 3k miles unless the oil is in the engine for a year even if it has 100 miles on it. even Toyota recommends changing the oil every 6 months no matter how many miles less than the 10k...which is good .

conventional oils do wear out and absorb water create sludge etc..so this is why back in 1998 I did the switch .. since that time 7500 miles some times 10,000 miles on oil change. so far I have also seen better MPG and faster very cold starts using the synthetics.

what I recently found was sludge on my 2016 T4R under the fill cap. yellow goop ... after the oil change which I did and was mobil synthetic the cap no longer had this yellow muck under the cap. interesting since the last time I saw that mess was back in 1998...

hot synthetic oil drains out much faster than conventional oil ...does a better job cooling the engine also.

 

[Door Ding]

So I know I had posted I was going to do synthetic, but I chickened out and bought more mobile 5000 conventional. I'm along the lines of thinking if it isn't broken, don't fix it... I have no issues aside from the startup tick for half a second when warm...https://vimeo.com/202565733

 

[Cisco Kid]

The best way to find out if you can run a certain oil, be it conventional or synthetic, for an extended period would be to take a sample and send it to someone like Blackstone Labs for testing. It's anyone's best guess as to whether that oil will in fact provide enough protection for your engine for a given number of miles without that test. For what it's worth, my previous truck with the V8 had a small tick on startup as well.

 

[Beaumont67]

Synthetic oil made from clean Natural Gas base stock & an XP synthetic filter...is the best technology known today...and cheap motor insurance.
- once one factors in 8,000 mile oil changes (minimum)...premium Fluids pay for itself, using "extended life" oil & filter frequencies

In Canada when it gets winter cold her, my vehicles all start quick...even switched my shop compressor to synthetic, don't blow fuses anymore.
- conventional oil is a waste of time & money IMO, because changes are more frequent only @ a lower initial cost..but spent less $$, more often
- OK for those that seek "bare minimum protection"