VSC initialization speed - 2002 SR5

B

bytemaster0

New member
I have a 2002 4Runner SR5 4WD, equipped with VSC (as were all models from 2001-2002 and on.) I purchased the vehicle used with 117,000 miles last April. Since I have had the vehicle, I've noticed a peculiar behavior from VSC, specifically related to when it will initialize. I've had lots of work done on the car (all steering components replaced, rack, intermediate, and upper steering shafts to alleviate play in the wheel), and some work to replace an axle seal, an O2 sensor, and a couple other minor things. Here's what happens:

Before I get to the problem, the manual clearly states that "VSC is active at speeds above 15 kph (9MPH)."

1. If I start the car, and then drive at speeds below 25 MPH (remember, manual says VSC should now be active), and I trigger an oversteer or understeer situation between 10-25MPH, VSC does *not* activate, or even try to intervene. The car will either go sideways or miss the turn. It seems that no matter how far I drive, unless I exceed 25-30MPH, VSC will not initialize and be ready to run.
2. If I restart the car, then drive above 30MPH, and attempt the *same* test between 10-25MPH, VSC works *flawlessly.*

So, it seems that no matter what, in order for VSC to initialize itself to be ready to work, I must drive above 25-30 MPH *first.*

I have called Toyota HQ (not that they'd really know much), who told me this is abnormal behavior. I then went to a dealer, and replicated the problem. The service technician agreed with me that this was not normal behavior for a vehicle. However, he had no clue what to do (the car isn't throwing any codes whatsoever), and that he'd have to call Toyota in California. Apparently, after doing so, the information that the service manager attempted to relay to me is that this was normal behavior.

I don't believe this for one minute; ABS initializes itself properly at 5MPH+. ATRAC goes live from the moment the key is turned, and the vehicle's steering position sensor has been zero-point calibrated several times now. The yaw-rate and lateral-rate accelerometers all should be working well without needing to go over 30MPH, and any problems with self-check should occur well before 30MPH.

I know that one should not drive dependent on such technologies, and I do my best not to. However, not being sure that the system is active (I shouldn't have to police myself to see whether I've driven 30+) is somewhat scary. I'd prefer to have it active from the moment I start driving.

Can anyone else replicate this problem? I can't seem to find anything like this anywhere, so feedback is much appreciated. So, any other 2001-2002 owners experience the same issue? Thanks for chiming in!
 
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Maclean beat me to it. I needed the recalibration done 3 times when it started giving me issues at low speeds (VSC would kick in under light braking on dry surfaces, very sketchy). It should be performed free of charge by the dealer. The first generation VSC had/has a lot of frustrating attributes.
 
KellyJ said:
Maclean beat me to it. I needed the recalibration done 3 times when it started giving me issues at low speeds (VSC would kick in under light braking on dry surfaces, very sketchy). It should be performed free of charge by the dealer. The first generation VSC had/has a lot of frustrating attributes.
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Thanks for the post - I don't have issues with VSC kicking in unwantedly - just that it doesn't kick in at all without first going 30+ MPH. The ZPCal was done at a good place, so I think they would have gotten it right - I read in the previous link that one needed to do a deceleration sensor calibration, perhaps that might be the issue? However, VSC isn't throwing any errors or codes, and once I *do* drive over 30MPH, correction and triggering of the system is flawless all the way down to 10-15MPH.
 
Well, another call to Toyota HQ, and they said they'd call me back. Their official position is that they stick to the manual. Ergo, I shouldn't have to go 30MPH to get VSC to initialize. Hopefully the person that calls me back will be a bit more knowledgeable. I am determined to fix this! In the meantime, are there any 2001-2002 owners that wouldn't mind safely trying the following test, just for giggles?

1. Find a wet or snowy parking lot.
2. Make sure it's empty, or that you have plenty of room!
3. Put it in 2WD.
4. Shut off the car, take out the key.
5. Turn it back on.
6. Drive no faster than 20MPH in the parking lot.
7. Jerk the wheel, left or right, and gas it. (The objective is to either trigger oversteer or understeer, depending on lot conditions, turn rate, tires, etc.)
8. Continue applying accelerator pressure, to continue the slide.

I'd love to know if VSC ever kicked in. Traction control generally does, but in this scenario detailed above, my VSC will *not* work. No beeping, no yaw correction, nothing. If I repeat 1-8, but change step 6 so that I drive 30MPH for a short distance, VSC engages perfectly in steps 7 and 8. Any takers? Please be safe! :) I will even consider $10 for gas via PayPal, if you can document your results. That's how much I want to fix this!
 
bytemaster0 said:
Well, another call to Toyota HQ, and they said they'd call me back. Their official position is that they stick to the manual. Ergo, I shouldn't have to go 30MPH to get VSC to initialize. Hopefully the person that calls me back will be a bit more knowledgeable. I am determined to fix this! In the meantime, are there any 2001-2002 owners that wouldn't mind safely trying the following test, just for giggles?

1. Find a wet or snowy parking lot.
2. Make sure it's empty, or that you have plenty of room!
3. Put it in 2WD.
4. Shut off the car, take out the key.
5. Turn it back on.
6. Drive no faster than 20MPH in the parking lot.
7. Jerk the wheel, left or right, and gas it. (The objective is to either trigger oversteer or understeer, depending on lot conditions, turn rate, tires, etc.)
8. Continue applying accelerator pressure, to continue the slide.

I'd love to know if VSC ever kicked in. Traction control generally does, but in this scenario detailed above, my VSC will *not* work. No beeping, no yaw correction, nothing. If I repeat 1-8, but change step 6 so that I drive 30MPH for a short distance, VSC engages perfectly in steps 7 and 8. Any takers? Please be safe! :) I will even consider $10 for gas via PayPal, if you can document your results. That's how much I want to fix this!
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Supposed to rain Friday or Saturday here. I'll report back my findings.
 
RunninInGA said:
Supposed to rain Friday or Saturday here. I'll report back my findings.
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Thanks so much, RunninInGA, I'd very much appreciate to know your findings. If there's any way you could get a video capture, that'd be even more amazing. PM me your PayPal address once you've had a chance to test it, and I'll send you something for your troubles. Thanks!
 
I've read something extremely interesting in a service bulletin for the '04 4Runner. While I'm aware that the 02 has an older generation of VSC, this really jumped out at me:

NOTE:
If viewing Diagnostic Tester Data List after repair, the Steering Angle Sensor may remain at 1150 until the vehicle reaches 28 mph. This is a normal condition until the learned values of the steering angle have been achieved.

Again, I know that I have a different system, but is it possible that my car isn't storing steering position sensor values, requiring VSC to store its steering angle sensors *every time* when I start the car and go over 30MPH? Perhaps I have a corrupted bank of EEPROM somewhere? It also states in the TSB that the vehicle should be driven for 5 minutes to confirm that zero point calibration is complete. This seems really interesting to me, and I wonder if Toyota didn't complete it right. I'm about to run the procedure myself, but I'm waiting to hear back from Runnin first.
 
Pavement was dry this morning. I'll go to the top level of the parking deck if it rains today and give it a "whirl." I'll let you know what my results are as soon as I can get to some wet pavement.
 
RunninInGA said:
Pavement was dry this morning. I'll go to the top level of the parking deck if it rains today and give it a "whirl." I'll let you know what my results are as soon as I can get to some wet pavement.
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Awesome, thank you so much! I would suspect that if the parking deck is made of cement/concrete, you might have some trouble getting the rear end to break free while keeping speeds at 20MPH or less, as it's a very tractionable material, but if you think it will work, please let me know how it went. :)
 
Byte, I apologize, but I haven't been able to find wet asphalt until today, but it rained when I was swapping out my radiator and installing the tranny cooler. I should be able to report back to you tomorrow.

And no need for the PayPal. I'm glad to help another member.
 
RunninInGA said:
Byte, I apologize, but I haven't been able to find wet asphalt until today, but it rained when I was swapping out my radiator and installing the tranny cooler. I should be able to report back to you tomorrow.

And no need for the PayPal. I'm glad to help another member.
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You're too kind, thank you for your help - and no worries, take your time - more storms coming in tomorrow, so I don't think we'll be short on wet asphalt. :)
 
One step closer to providing you some hard evidence. Was running late to the office this AM, so I didn't get a chance to play much. That being the case, the top floor of the parking deck (10 stories up) won't allow me to break the tires loose, BUT the lower floors will on the smoother concrete when wet (like today). I should be able to report back to you this evening after many of the cars are gone and wreck risk mitigated.

God I hope none of you guys are State Farm agents.
 
RunninInGA said:
One step closer to providing you some hard evidence. Was running late to the office this AM, so I didn't get a chance to play much. That being the case, the top floor of the parking deck (10 stories up) won't allow me to break the tires loose, BUT the lower floors will on the smoother concrete when wet (like today). I should be able to report back to you this evening after many of the cars are gone and wreck risk mitigated.

God I hope none of you guys are State Farm agents.
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No worries, not a state farm agent. :) Thanks for your continued offer to help, you have no idea how much I appreciate it.
 
Man, I'm sorry I'm just now getting back to this - I thought I posted my results last week. Anyway, I was able to kick the rear end out and there was correction, the dash light lit up, but I didn't get the audible beep everyone talks about. I did this before and after reaching the 30 mph threshold with the same results both times. FWIW, I'm 2wd though - don't know if that makes a difference or not. I tried it a total of 4 times - 2 as described above WITH TSC on and 2 times with TSC OFF - same results all 4 times.

Does this help at all?
 
I'd count myself lucky if I were you. I can't stand that traction control crap. I know how to drive in low-traction situations and don't need the vehicle fighting me. It has almost caused numerous accidents when I have purposely put the vehicle sideways or spun the tires, only to lose power and have the brakes applied. I have to leave it connected for now 'cause it's the wife's car, but is there a way to disable the entire system?
 
RunninInGA said:
Man, I'm sorry I'm just now getting back to this - I thought I posted my results last week. Anyway, I was able to kick the rear end out and there was correction, the dash light lit up, but I didn't get the audible beep everyone talks about. I did this before and after reaching the 30 mph threshold with the same results both times. FWIW, I'm 2wd though - don't know if that makes a difference or not. I tried it a total of 4 times - 2 as described above WITH TSC on and 2 times with TSC OFF - same results all 4 times.

Does this help at all?
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Runnin, thank you so much for doing this! I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. I do have a couple of questions:

1. When you ran the test the first time, before reaching 30MPH, what was the fastest speed you hit before throwing the car into a spin? When you say that there was no beeping, that tells me that traction control was active (keeping wheelspin from occuring) but that VSC wasn't doing anything (preventing your oversteer or understeer.) When you say it was correcting, did you feel it countering your over/understeer, or was it just trying to keep traction? When my vehicle is experiencing its "problem", traction control does work to prevent wheelspin, and the dash lights come on, but VSC doesn't engage - no beeping.

2. In the case that you drove over 30MPH, did it feel any different, as if VSC were kicking in?

After doing much more testing, I've been able to get VSC to kick in even if I don't drive 30 MPH, but it seems I have to drive a bit farther - and/or take a couple of turns. I'm still trying to figure out what the threshold is. Offer for fuel compensation is still on the table, should you wish to take me up on it. Thanks so much again!
 
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bytemaster0 said:
Runnin, thank you so much for doing this! I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. I do have a couple of questions:

1. When you ran the test the first time, before reaching 30MPH, what was the fastest speed you hit before throwing the car into a spin? When you say that there was no beeping, that tells me that traction control was active (keeping wheelspin from occuring) but that VSC wasn't doing anything (preventing your oversteer or understeer.) When you say it was correcting, did you feel it countering your over/understeer, or was it just trying to keep traction? When my vehicle is experiencing its "problem", traction control does work to prevent wheelspin, and the dash lights come on, but VSC doesn't engage - no beeping.

2. In the case that you drove over 30MPH, did it feel any different, as if VSC were kicking in?

After doing much more testing, I've been able to get VSC to kick in even if I don't drive 30 MPH, but it seems I have to drive a bit farther - and/or take a couple of turns. I'm still trying to figure out what the threshold is. Offer for fuel compensation is still on the table, should you wish to take me up on it. Thanks so much again!
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1. The fastest I hit was between 15-18 mph. Wheel spin was stopped with trac on and "minimized" when trac off. Correction was such that my slide was halted more abruptly than physics normally would dictate. The system did counter the slide motion.

2. Was the same as when the 30 mph threshold was not exceeded. Wheel spin stopped and minimized and slide corrected as before.

No worries on the fuel reimbursement. Glad to help. Let me know if you have any more questions. I could find another location if necessary that would allow more experimentation and could record video to help.
 
RunninInGA said:
1. The fastest I hit was between 15-18 mph. Wheel spin was stopped with trac on and "minimized" when trac off. Correction was such that my slide was halted more abruptly than physics normally would dictate. The system did counter the slide motion.

2. Was the same as when the 30 mph threshold was not exceeded. Wheel spin stopped and minimized and slide corrected as before.

No worries on the fuel reimbursement. Glad to help. Let me know if you have any more questions. I could find another location if necessary that would allow more experimentation and could record video to help.
Click to expand...

Thanks again, Runnin, you've provided much useful information. Whether or not my system goes active at speeds under 30MPH seems to be very random at best. I'm thinking that at some point I may swap out all the VSC-related equipment - computer and sensors, to see how it goes. I'd love to test this on ice or snow, but since winter no longer exists, there's little opportunity for that. Thanks so much again!
 
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