Warranty 101: Warranty and You - TD1, recalls, updates, Magnuson Moss, etc...

[PHXTE]

If you're referring to my post on the other forum, I take offense to the "herp derp" as if you are somehow implying that I am an idiot. But, it's the internet and I expect that. I was simply trying to be helpful.

If you read what I actually wrote, I said a minor mod like a level spacer should not void an entire powertrain warranty and in another post noted that the M/M act specifically prohibits dealers from saying "these parts are only OK if WE install them" which is true. I also said if you have a bunch of back yard engineering done on your ride, you're going to have trouble. I never once came close to implying any and all mods are perfectly fine because of M/M... Common sense goes a long way.

Even AudiTech agrees that a level kit shouldn't void a power train warranty... At the end of the day, the dealers can't just do whatever they want. If they could you'd hear, "I'm sorry sir, those new RainX Wiperblades are not O.E. we're just not going to be able to cover your leaky oil pan gasket." All things within reason is all I was suggesting.

herp derp, I think not.

Don't flatter yourself too hard there, buddy. I haven't the faintest clue who you are and I don't know what you're referring to. I don't care to know either. :kiss:

 

[wfo9]

I did not get the impression he was talking about your post but I fully agree with him. Damn near everything you see posted on forums in regards to the MM Act applying to cars is just idiots making noise.

There have been a few cases posted here where members go to the dealer with strange electrical gremlins (vsc lights... intermittent gauge cluster... ) and happen to also have aftermarket parts installed (like a stereo, alternator, heated seats...) and the dealer won't even hook up diagnostics, or just blame the aftermarket part as the cause with no logical explanation. That is the case where the MM act applies.

The reason the dealers would not do the right thing in those cases.. was that it was not easy money. The tech would throw up his hands because he knew it would be difficult troubleshooting and the aftermarket parts were an easy excuse to move on to simple guaranteed money jobs.

The difference between a good dealer and a bad dealer... is how they treat you when it is not guaranteed money in their pocket.

 

[aweaver65]

Don't flatter yourself too hard there, buddy. I haven't the faintest clue who you are and I don't know what you're referring to. I don't care to know either. :kiss:

Wow you are a class act aren't you. Coming from "the fast car world" you MUST be super special. Thank God guys like you are willing to come down to our level and grace us with your wisdom.

Thank you so much.

Don't flatter yourself too hard there, buddy. I haven't the faintest clue who you are and I don't know what you're referring to. I don't care to know either. :kiss:

 

[AudiTech]

There have been a few cases posted here where members go to the dealer with strange electrical gremlins (vsc lights... intermittent gauge cluster... ) and happen to also have aftermarket parts installed (like a stereo, alternator, heated seats...) and the dealer won't even hook up diagnostics, or just blame the aftermarket part as the cause with no logical explanation. That is the case where the MM act applies.

The reason the dealers would not do the right thing in those cases.. was that it was not easy money. The tech would throw up his hands because he knew it would be difficult troubleshooting and the aftermarket parts were an easy excuse to move on to simple guaranteed money jobs.

The difference between a good dealer and a bad dealer... is how they treat you when it is not guaranteed money in their pocket.

That is not where the MM Act applies. The dealer can decline to work on any vehicle for any reason. There are dealers that have a black and white policy that if it's modified they wont touch it for any reason untill it's returned back to stock. If they don't want to touch stuff other people have messed with, it may not be a good business plan, but that's well within their rights. Refusing to work on the modified vehicle is not the same as charging a customer and claiming they have no more warranty.

We had a customer back in Chicago that bought a new GTI. He came in on a regular basis and literally every single time as his car was being brought up he'd say hey it looks like you guys scratched the fender and then walk out and point out an impossible to see from that distance small imperfection and want us to fix it. After the 4th time he was told were sorry but we don't feel like we can supply you with the level of service your looking for, we ask that in the future you try another dealer. His car was under warranty and we refused to touch it ever again. That was not a violation of the MM Act, it was simply a customer not worth doing business with.

 

[PHXTE]

Wow you are a class act aren't you. Coming from "the fast car world" you MUST be super special. Thank God guys like you are willing to come down to our level and grace us with your wisdom.

Thank you so much.

You decided to be the dick and fire the first shot at me, cupcake, as if I'm supposed to know who you are and what the hell you were talking about. Auditech clearly realized I wasn't referring to anyone in particular in this thread, yet for whatever reason, you chose to take offense to that.

Don't throw poop if you don't want it thrown back at you.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

That is not where the MM Act applies. The dealer can decline to work on any vehicle for any reason. There are dealers that have a black and white policy that if it's modified they wont touch it for any reason untill it's returned back to stock. If they don't want to touch stuff other people have messed with, it may not be a good business plan, but that's well within their rights. Refusing to work on the modified vehicle is not the same as charging a customer and claiming they have no more warranty.

We had a customer back in Chicago that bought a new GTI. He came in on a regular basis and literally every single time as his car was being brought up he'd say hey it looks like you guys scratched the fender and then walk out and point out an impossible to see from that distance small imperfection and want us to fix it. After the 4th time he was told were sorry but we don't feel like we can supply you with the level of service your looking for, we ask that in the future you try another dealer. His car was under warranty and we refused to touch it ever again. That was not a violation of the MM Act, it was simply a customer not worth doing business with.

This is a very good point, when it comes to warranty it's pretty much whatever the dealer/manufacturer decides when it comes to modified vehicles. I do encourage members who believe they are being wronged to find/provide evidence that their component was not the cause of failure and/or related; but only because it strengthens their case in the event of needing to fight the denial of service. It doesn't mean that will guarantee that they will roll over on the decision or are required to withdraw the decision, but I do see a lot of shops & technicians blanket aftermarket components as automatic failures.

 

[wfo9]

This is a very good point, when it comes to warranty it's pretty much whatever the dealer/manufacturer decides when it comes to modified vehicles. I do encourage members who believe they are being wronged to find/provide evidence that their component was not the cause of failure and/or related; but only because it strengthens their case in the event of needing to fight the denial of service. It doesn't mean that will guarantee that they will roll over on the decision or are required to withdraw the decision, but I do see a lot of shops & technicians blanket aftermarket components as automatic failures.

But the very point of the law is to not allow it to be "whatever they decide". That is why it was put in place. If they can do whatever they want... then there is no point to the law, follow?

Sure they do whatever they want... but they could lose in a court of law for not honoring the warranty...

 

[Jhalko]

But the very point of the law is to not allow it to be "whatever they decide". That is why it was put in place. If they can do whatever they want... then there is no point to the law, follow?

Sure they do whatever they want... but they could lose in a court of law for not honoring the warranty...

I get this thinking, but how much money would you be willing to spend to fight that fight? In the end maybe more than to fix whatever broke.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

But the very point of the law is to not allow it to be "whatever they decide". That is why it was put in place. If they can do whatever they want... then there is no point to the law, follow?

Sure they do whatever they want... but they could lose in a court of law for not honoring the warranty...

Yes and no. The law apparently wasn't written with the modding community in mind, so in that specific instance of a modified vehicle the judgement of warranty is more in favor of the manufacturer who gets to decide whether or not they want to Good Will repairs. Now if the customer were able to prove that the non-factory components didn't contribute to the failure, that may give them legal ground. But basically it switches to the customer to defend themselves because they knowingly modified a vehicle beyond factory specifications unfortunately.

 

[wfo9]

Yes and no. The law apparently wasn't written with the modding community in mind, so in that specific instance of a modified vehicle the judgement of warranty is more in favor of the manufacturer who gets to decide whether or not they want to Good Will repairs. Now if the customer were able to prove that the non-factory components didn't contribute to the failure, that may give them legal ground. But basically it switches to the customer to defend themselves because they knowingly modified a vehicle beyond factory specifications unfortunately.

It's a gray area... There is a huge lobby behind the MM act.... Mostly SEMA. These companies would go out of business if dealers could just deny warranty for all aftermarket parts because it was not 100% stock...

Let me tell you one thing from experince. As a corporation in america you don't want the FTC getting a solid case against you... I worked for a company that was in violation of an FTC law (about 10 years before I started there) and once they get a ruling against you... it never ends and costs you insane amounts of money even after you are in compliance. In our case, it was simply not reporting lead times correctly. The settlement included on going proof and audits to prove it would never happen again.

Not sure what you mean by modded community. Everything is a modification... Stereo, lights...(shit floor mats) really anything that was no there from the factory. Now if we are talking about re-writing the ECU and swapping in a new turbo or motor.... well that is a different level. Don't laugh about the floor mats. Toyota used that one in the past.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] I'm agreeing that it is a Grey Area and as such most dealers tend to write any aftermarket component as a void of warranty. Rarely do you see people get voided for floor mats (though you'd be surprised how many people think 3+ floor mats in their vehicle stacked on one another is a good idea...), but it is more common on things like radios, suspension mods, aftermarket seat heaters, ect. The reality is since it is a grey area and most customers don't know how to handle that, the dealers get away with it, maybe at worst a bad Yelp. Hence why I said it switches from the dealer having to prove the mod caused the failure to the customer in that case.

 

[AudiTech]

With warranty questions popping back up I'm gonna bump this back to the first page.