Was i scammed into paying over $420 for a break job?

[4Runners]

This is something that really pisses me off. A couple of weeks ago i had my breaks inspected at the dealership and they told me that all i needed were brake pads for my two front wheels, everything else was fine. So, yesterday i decided to go to a Just Brakes shop to get new brake pads since they advertise them for $99.88. I dropped the car off at 2pm since they told me it would take till 6pm to do the job. About an hour after i left the car at the shop the guy calls and tells me that one of the front calipers has a stuck piston and i might need to buy a whole new caliper. Now that $99.88 has turned into about $425.00 worth of work. I raced back to the shop and let them show me what they were talking about. They showed me the caliper and said that it was badly rusted and stuck. I took a picture with my phone and have it posted below. You can see the stuck piston they were talking about. Needless to say, i had no choice but to agree to them putting a whole new non-OEM caliper on my front passenger wheel.

Today i went to my Local Toyota Dealership and showed them the picture and they said that they haven't heard of seized calipers on 4th gens before, but most likely the Just Brakes ruined my caliper on purpose so that i had no choice but to buy a new one from them. I'm at the Toyota dealership waiting on an oil change and for them to re-inspect my brakes because now they squeak very badly :ybrick: :ybrick: :ybrick: . I also researched Just Brakes and found very bad Rip-off Report: Ripoff Report | Just Brakes | Complaint Review: 298 and google reviews: Just Brakes and even an NBC undercover special exposing their brake scams here: NBC Dateline - Just Brakes - YouTube I usually check reviews for products or services, but this is one of those rare times i didn't and now i'm wondering if i got burned. I didnt expect this to have cost so much. I'll update more when i get my car back from the dealership today.

EDIT UPDATE: Ok i finished at the dealership and they said that the Just Brakes used titanium brake pads that tend to squeak more. I dont know what they did but when i rolled out of there the squeaking was gone. I also want to make it clear that i'm not bashing either the Just Brakes shop or the Toyota mechanic. I'm simply trying to get the forums opinion on whether or not:

A. Just Brakes scammed me the same way most other reviews listed in my OP say or
B. The Toyota shop was pretending that there isn't a problem with seized calipers and tried to scare me that Just Brakes ruined my caliper on purpose to get me to spend more on a replacement.

 

[bensanders]

my Local Toyota Dealership and showed them the picture and they said that they haven't heard of seized calipers on 4th gens before

Seriously? I'm pretty sure this is a common issue for 4th gens.

Carmax pulled some of this **** with me recently. They tried to put me back on the road with cracked front rotors after giving me an invoice saying they had replaced them. Each front rotor had about 8 surface cracks, clearly visible. Ridiculous.

 

[MikeInNH]

Have you read any of the posts here???

Stuck brake calipers is a KNOWN issue. There's a whole thread dedicated to it in this forum.

$425 is a little high...but NOT outrageous.

The dealer is telling you the brake shop screwed up is called "Spin". And personally I'd stay away from that dealer. Either A - Their mechanics are completely incompetent...or B - they are lying through their teeth when they tell you they never heard of the 4th generation 4runner brake calipers seizing.

 

[4Runners]

Yes i read about the seized calipers here and even posted in that thread. I was kinda surprised that mine was in the condition it was in in the picture. The other three that aren't pictured were perfectly fine. Also (this seems to be a big argument in the seized caliper thread) it is widely believed that seized calipers occur in people in the north with more snow/rust issues, which also made me surprised. I'm at 160,000 miles and have been taking my runner to the same dealership for maintenance and never had any issues.

I just finished talking with my dealership guy and he said the brakes are fine, they just used some kind of titanium metal pads so i will have squeaking. I hate the squeaking, but i guess i'll have to live with it or maybe they have to break in?

 

[jimithing]

4th Gen's definitely have caliper problems. But I took my car to the Just Brakes in Denton when I went to school up there and they ripped me the hell off. Told me I needed new rotors and pads on all 4 wheels. The rotors they put on were warped within 3 months. I took it to the Just Brakes in Lewisville and got everything replaced and then it was fine. But yes, they're notorious for doing shoddy work with cheap parts. Depending on where you are in North Texas you might try JP Importz the next time you need something.

 

[sonerick]

Dude, there's been numerous posts about stuck brake calipers floating around the 4th Gen forum for a while. This is a know issue, you really shouldn't be surprised.

I don't think Just Brakes was trying to rip you off, you told them to change your front pads and they discovered a seized piston. End of story. If they had neglected to say something about the seized piston, they would be liable for any resulting damage. FWIW, all garages (dealers and independents alike) typically charge way too much for brakes considering how easy a brake job really is.

I wouldn't be concerned about them using a non-OEM front caliper either, it's quality is probably just as sub-par as the OEM units that are prone to piston seizing. Your squeak/squeal is likely caused by one of two things: the pads need to be bedded properly, or they didn't use anti-squeal shims and grease when installing the new pads.

Honestly, in the time it took you to research bad reviews about Just Brakes and start a thread on this forum, you could have done an entire front pad change. Next time consider using the forum as a resource to do your own work instead of a place to bash a shop for doing what you paid them to do.

 

[4Runners]

Dude, there's been numerous posts about stuck brake calipers floating around the 4th Gen forum for a while. This is a know issue, you really shouldn't be surprised.

I don't think Just Brakes was trying to rip you off, you told them to change your front pads and they discovered a seized piston. End of story. If they had neglected to say something about the seized piston, they would be liable for any resulting damage. FWIW, all garages (dealers and independents alike) typically charge way too much for brakes considering how easy a brake job really is.

I wouldn't be concerned about them using a non-OEM front caliper either, it's quality is probably just as sub-par as the OEM units that are prone to piston seizing. Your squeak/squeal is likely caused by one of two things: the pads need to be bedded properly, or they didn't use anti-squeal shims and grease when installing the new pads.

Honestly, in the time it took you to research bad reviews about Just Brakes and start a thread on this forum, you could have done an entire front pad change. Next time consider using the forum as a resource to do your own work instead of a place to bash a shop for doing what you paid them to do.

Yeah i watched them replace everything and it was super easy to do. I could have easily replaced the brake pads, but flushing the brake fluid and things like that seem complicated to me. I love using this forum to help install radios, lights, and other cool mods so don't think i never use the forums as a resource.

I'm not bashing the shop, i'm just wondering if what the toyota mechanic said about them purposely ruining the caliper when they took it off could be true. That's why i posted a picture of the caliper to get the forums opinion. Perhaps i should have been more clear.

 

[zimdba]

Yeah i watched them replace everything and it was super easy to do. I could have easily replaced the brake pads, but flushing the brake fluid and things like that seem complicated to me. I love using this forum to help install radios, lights, and other cool mods so don't think i never use the forums as a resource.

I've become less and less mechanically inclined over the years, but I still consider brakes to be a fairly easy repair. If you get the opportunity to do it I would give it a shot.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

First off, siezing caliper pistons are a known issue by many owners and 4Runner members. As for dealerships? Honestly, it could be anything from them just lying out their teeth, to not having many customers with that problem roll through their particular dealership...

I'm a little hurt by how everyone is quick to condem the dealership technicians. I'm not saying that they don't screw up and are incompotent (many are, no delusions there ) But, most of the time it is the service writer who explains things to the customer. What the technician tells the service writer can become very distorted because the service writer may not want to explain the problem, or just trying to make a sale or cover his ass and comes up with a fanciful story.

That being said, I don't think the independent shop screwed you over. What the dealership said about them purposely screwing up your caliper to make a sale, may have some truth to it. We had a huge scandal a year or two in our area where certian quick lube chains (*COUGHJIFFYLUBECOUGH*) were putting used car oil back into the cars they were working on. In my experience though, the only real issues you come accross with this quick brake shops is that their parts may not have all the required hardware for your brake job and or they lose the hardware, then again even the dealership technicians can be lazy and forget to put the hardware back on.

...Somehow I ended up writing a mini-rant... Sorry about that....

Simply put, Quick Brake Shop didn't screw you over and Dealership sounds unfriendly.

 

[4Runners]

First off, siezing caliper pistons are a known issue by many owners and 4Runner members. As for dealerships? Honestly, it could be anything from them just lying out their teeth, to not having many customers with that problem roll through their particular dealership...

I'm a little hurt by how everyone is quick to condem the dealership technicians. I'm not saying that they don't screw up and are incompotent (many are, no delusions there ) But, most of the time it is the service writer who explains things to the customer. What the technician tells the service writer can become very distorted because the service writer may not want to explain the problem, or just trying to make a sale or cover his ass and comes up with a fanciful story.

That being said, I don't think the independent shop screwed you over. What the dealership said about them purposely screwing up your caliper to make a sale, may have some truth to it. We had a huge scandal a year or two in our area where certian quick lube chains (*COUGHJIFFYLUBECOUGH*) were putting used car oil back into the cars they were working on. In my experience though, the only real issues you come accross with this quick brake shops is that their parts may not have all the required hardware for your brake job and or they lose the hardware, then again even the dealership technicians can be lazy and forget to put the hardware back on.

...Somehow I ended up writing a mini-rant... Sorry about that....

Simply put, Quick Brake Shop didn't screw you over and Dealership sounds unfriendly.

Thanks for the reply Blackworks! Yeah, as i said before i have been taking my car to the same dealership for all 160,000 miles it's got on it so i was more inclined to believe what my dealership told me than the brake shop i've only went to once. My Toyota dealership never tried to sell me on anything or play me ever. I knew about the seized caliper issue and didn't suspect anything by the brake shop until i read reviews on it today and what the dealership told me. I would think that anyone in my situation would have thought twice about the brake shop then!

The thing that surprised me the most was how much i've heard about seized calipers but the dealership denied it. Then again this is the south and i've heard seized calipers are more common in the north, so perhaps your right about it not being seen much in my shop. I wouldn't say the shop was bad though.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

A lot of members on this forum swear its not caused by salt/humidity. But our dealership out in the Bay Area (Nor Cal) hasn't seen a single case of siezed calipers. A friend of mine in Seattle says he's heard about them up there and also believes the salt/de icer contributes (the horror stories and pictures he showed me of the damage from that stuff still haunts me at night LoL)

I wasn't trying to single you out or anything, I just noticed that everyone likes to pick on the dealer technicians and I am all like, "but... I'm a tech too... I'm not that bad am I? :moping:"

LoL just my little sob story. :violin:

 

[4Runners]

A lot of members on this forum swear its not caused by salt/humidity. But our dealership out in the Bay Area (Nor Cal) hasn't seen a single case of siezed calipers. A friend of mine in Seattle says he's heard about them up there and also believes the salt/de icer contributes (the horror stories and pictures he showed me of the damage from that stuff still haunts me at night LoL)

I wasn't trying to single you out or anything, I just noticed that everyone likes to pick on the dealer technicians and I am all like, "but... I'm a tech too... I'm not that bad am I? :moping:"

LoL just my little sob story. :violin:

Dont worry i know you weren't singling me out there. With all the help you gave me before i owe you one of these :beer: It was just a crappy time to have this happen with me since i'm planning a nice 1,500 mile new years road trip but stuff happens

 

[Byznyrn]

Lesson learned here for everyone that hasn't yet gone to one of these "discount" service facilities. They can't make a profit and expect to stay open doing $99 brake jobs all day long. While not all of them will intentionally cause problems on all cars, they do and will get you to buy things you don't necessarily need. I'm a BMW Fixed Operations Director and I've worked for the Independents as well in addition to having my own shop at one time. The best thing you can do is establish a rapport with a single service facility that can do anything and everything you need and it will be a mutually beneficial relationship between a shop and you. It doesn't have to be a dealer but being on both sides, I'm partial to the Dealerships.

There's a shop close to me that has a sign out front reading, "We fix their $99 brake jobs". Love it. Good Luck!

 

[TNTramair]

as a Dealer ASM myself i can tell you first hand that not all Service Writers know what they are talkin about. 2 of my fellow ASM's arent exactly car savy themselves yet they hold that position. i cringe sometimes listening to them explain things to customers. i on the other hand know how to explain things in terms normal people will understand....i try to leave the technical terms out of the conversation but just as not all dealers are created equal, ASM's just the same.
the guy that told you it wasnt a common issue doesnt have a clue....or like someone said could be in an area where corrosion isnt an issue. it is very common (ive done 1 on my personal truck at 57k miles...will do the other side very soon).

the 99.95 pad slap brake job is a cheap alternative to doin the job the "right" way. i run into it atleast once a day everyday. cheap parts= noise and issues. not resurfacing rotors will lead to noise and vibration. peoples opinions will differ in the matter but it happens more often than not.

price wise, no it wasnt a rip off...its pretty much in line with what a brake job with a caliper replacement goes for now a days. the dealer would have been probably $100.00 more with the differance in parts pricing.

 

[4Runners]

as a Dealer ASM myself i can tell you first hand that not all Service Writers know what they are talkin about. 2 of my fellow ASM's arent exactly car savy themselves yet they hold that position. i cringe sometimes listening to them explain things to customers. i on the other hand know how to explain things in terms normal people will understand....i try to leave the technical terms out of the conversation but just as not all dealers are created equal, ASM's just the same.
the guy that told you it wasnt a common issue doesnt have a clue....or like someone said could be in an area where corrosion isnt an issue. it is very common (ive done 1 on my personal truck at 57k miles...will do the other side very soon).

the 99.95 pad slap brake job is a cheap alternative to doin the job the "right" way. i run into it atleast once a day everyday. cheap parts= noise and issues. not resurfacing rotors will lead to noise and vibration. peoples opinions will differ in the matter but it happens more often than not.

price wise, no it wasnt a rip off...its pretty much in line with what a brake job with a caliper replacement goes for now a days. the dealer would have been probably $100.00 more with the differance in parts pricing.

This is pretty much the exact conclusion i came too after thinking about it for a day. I just finished a 1,500 mile trip to southern colorado so my brakes are completely broken in and now i dont hear as much squeaking. Thanks for the advice guys!

 

[Sungod]

Did they just replace 1 caliper? If so, that is dumb and you got ripped off. The caliper is $100 max plus your $89 that you were already paying for the pad slap. They basically removed two bolts and put on a new caliper. How does the price double when they are doing maybe 15 mins more work?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Depends on how the shop charges out work (flat rate model, ect), also if they replaced the caliper they need to bleed the system.

 

[oceancrest67]

Like most...I have also been burned by a scamming mechanic, dealership or cheap service center...I now boycott Jiffy Lube and NTB...horrible service and stupid scams. I get my oil changes at the dealership and I bought my last set of tires through Costco (Michelin LTX MS 2's).

I agree with gaining a rapport with a good service center or dealership. I bought my used '03 4Runner back in 2007 and decided to take it to the same dealer the original owner took it to...no problems...followed the maintenance schedule. Yes, dealerships (and they are not all equal) are pricier...at a good dealership (my current)...they provide excellent service.

 

[MrSeth]

$420? I woulda paid $69... LAWL.

Anywho, break out your wrenches and spend $49.79 per new caliper from Rock Auto.

 

[Drunner97]

I love the bots bumping 8 year old threads, and then people actually reading the whole thing then responding.