We are screwed...

[Thai]

Yes, I do believe that the new health care system will kill people. I know from personal experience that delays happen and these delays cause additional damage to patients.

As i stated before, my nurse's father lives in Canada. He had rectal bleeding and loss quite a bit of blood. He had to wait 9 months before he even had a colonoscopy...in the meantime, he was told to take tons of iron pills. What is going to do? Sue the doctor? Nope, the doctor is just following the rules. Sue the government? Yeah, good luck with that! This is why some folks have resort to paying a doctor "under the table" to get procedures done in a timely manner...of course, this is against the law. Or they come to the US to get it done.

In comparison, over here in the US, if anyone comes in with rectal bleeding and acute blood loss, you will be scoped within 48 hours if not sooner. And yes, that applies to the no-paying patients too.

Yeah, doctor's income may go down, but we will still have a comfortable living. And you know what? Lawsuit against us will go down too, even in Florida. Patients may die, but we're just following the rules set by the government.

Like i said before, you guys have not seen anything yet. You better be healthy.

 

[004Gunner]

There are six core reasons why Health Care is a bad bill.

I counted 5 reasons that you listed and they were the number of Americans without Health Insurance, Estimated cost of the bill, Trust in the government, American support of the bill, and Health care companies losing money.

I agree with the following:
The number of Americans without Health Insurance. This is an important number to obtain since it is necessary to calculate an accurate cost of the bill. Having just completed the census, I would have been more than happy to fill out a supplementary form regarding how many members of my household had health insurance.

The cost of the bill. I consider this to be directly related to the number of Americans without health insurance and it's obvious why. I can't calculate how much without knowing how many.

American support of the bill. While I support it, I would not be pleased with anything that passes under minority approval.

The first brick? Why don't you move to a socialist country like UK or Germany? You clearly want that.

You're talking about setting one price for all doctors, regardless of quality. Ask people how price controls worked during the oil crisis when there were lines around the block for 3 gallons of gas? (Remember, good mileage then was 12 mpg.)

What, that's not the same thing? OK, ask people in Canada about healthcare. They have price controlled healthcare. Ask about waits for knee replacements and many other procedures. Heck, ask about waits for cancer surgery.

For that matter, ask MY MOTHER about cancer surgery. Florida has a mild shortage due to Medicare rates and generous malpractice laws (generous to lawyers, not medical professionals). An oncologist in my stepmother's family (who works in Ohio) got more and more upset as I discussed the time-line with him. His hospital had a 98% or so rate of less than 21 days from first biopsy to surgery. He talked about Mayo clinic doing the whole process in a week. Biopsy on Monday and surgery on Thur or Fri. My mother waited 66 days, and that was due to me pushing the doctors to find earlier dates! She had 2 lobes of her lung removed instead of 1, and nearly died of a mild case of pneumonia due largely to the additional lobe removal.

Yes, I do believe that the new health care system will kill people. I know from personal experience that delays happen and these delays cause additional damage to patients.

I don't think he wants to move to a socialist country and neither do I. How about you leave the straw man alone and focus on what is actually being said. While I think the scenario you described is tragic, the interesting point in your story, even ironic, is that the story is the result of the current health care system in America. You seem to be arguing for status quo, but present a very strong argument for the need to reform.

 

[JeremyH]

I would have been more than happy to fill out a supplementary form regarding how many members of my household had health insurance.

Did illegal aliens also fill out the census paperwork? Because they sure as hell make use of the health care provided in this country and it is doubtful that they have insurance. An estimated 12 million illegal aliens in this country...leaves us no real way to count the number of people who utilize health care.

I would not be pleased with anything that passes under minority approval.

What about bills that were passed because votes were "purchased" and voters were bribed? That has happened here, but Obama and his administration dont allow the media to be present when those backs are scratched...

 

[004Gunner]

Did illegal aliens also fill out the census paperwork? Because they sure as hell make use of the health care provided in this country and it is doubtful that they have insurance. An estimated 12 million illegal aliens in this country...leaves us no real way to count the number of people who utilize health care.

They are supposed to. I know, I know, not very likely but the census responses are supposed to be protected and not used for INS or any other agency for law enforcement purposes. That message getting across to those living here illegally is not likely and even if illegals did get the message, there is no reason to believe they would follow it. I suppose the only logical solution is better border control which is a separate argument altogether.

What about bills that were passed because votes were "purchased" and voters were bribed? That has happened here, but Obama and his administration dont allow the media to be present when those backs are scratched...

Business as usual as far as I'm concerned. Career politicians :rant:

 

[Mark86]

Here is my opinion:

I am 100% against this new healthcare bill. To start, this bill is going to overcrowd doctors offices. The most important aspect in medical care is the doctor/patient relationship. How long is a doctor going to spend with you if he has more patients to see and making less money? Not very long to be exact!!!!! Also, if you look at the bill, there are severe cuts to Medicare. These people WHO WORKED paid into Medicare and deserve something in return for their hard work. Many doctors are considering not accepting Medicare patient because it is not financially feasible. I can go on and on but don't want to make this post too long and boring.

Now for small business. Obama thinks it is great making small businesses pay for their employees healthcare. Just what a struggling economy needs, more expenses and less profits. I know many small business owners who are going to cut employees because they can't afford their Obama tax. For example, my dentist employs around 50 employees. He said that his expenses will increase by $60,000 after Obamacare taxes take place. Now, what will he do? Fire 2-3 employees. Great, the unemployment rate is going to increase now.

How was this bill passed? I read of at least two sweetheart deals that were needed to BUY votes. While I know this is politics and they are not the most honest people, this is just way too much. In addition, after Scott Brown was elected, Obama said that he heard the people speak and won't ram this bill down their throat. Yet another great line by the orator. Also, if you look back at the passage of Social Security, Medicare and even the law on Iraq, it had both Republican and Democrat votes. If you look at the war, it passed a Republican run House and Democrat run congress. This bill passed with a whopping 0 Republican votes. If I see Pelosi or Reid on my TV again, something will thrown and I will have to be at Best Buy shopping for a new one.

I agree we need health care reform in this country. The main focus should be on tort reform. Much of the medical costs are coming from defensive medicine because of people who like suing docs frivolously. Also, what happened to the work ethic in this country? With all these taxes, I should stop pursuing my education and let the government support me.

Please, let's keep this civil and have a respectful political debate.