Weird Transmission Issue

[LazeR]

Well, I am little stressed to say the least.

2002, 193k miles, original motor and transmission. Trans filter replaced @ 163k by PO, I had timing belt/water pump/tensioners/cam seals replaced @ 186k, also brought it over to Toyota to have the transmission flushed at the same time.

On my way home from work today, My transmission started acting odd. When I let off the throttle it would almost feel like it was down shifting and slowing me down. It would accelerate fine, then I let off the throttle and it slows down. For kicks and giggles I kicked out overdrive, and it no longer did it. Same thing being in 2. Also for kicks and giggles I turned my Torque Pro App, and realized my transmission was running way hotter than normal, especially since it's only 22F here. It was running about 180-190F @ about 35mph. I pulled over to check to make sure I wasn't leaking any ATF, and saw no leaks. Then I checked my fluid and it seemed quite a bit darker than when I checked it the other day in the shop, but completely different lighting. When I wiped it on my finger it was still pink, but in comparison to 2 days ago I think it's darker. Also attached is a picture of the fluid color. Not the pink I'd like, but I've seen a lot worse.

My coolant Reservoir is full and doesn't look contaminated, also my radiator itself is full and doesn't look contaminated.

Was hoping maybe someone had some insight?

Thanks

P.S. I have searched on the forum, and can't find anything that describes my problem.


Transmission Fluid Color

 

[brillo_76]

Any odd noises. Like when you put it in drive you hear a noise out of the transmission or you put it in park or neutral your noise goes away?

Seems like its takes more rpm to get it moving engine revving higher to move?


Stalls when at a stop sign or stop light?


Dosent want to sit still in Drive and trying to move at normal engine temp?



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[jgue467]

Haven't heard of that on this forum.

If it were mine, I'd have it flushed, not just a simple drain/fill or two. Flushing has solved many folks problems, including mine twice on other vehicles, and it can't hurt, well other than the cost.

Luck and enjoy the Runner. :cowboy:

 

[LazeR]

Any odd noises. Like when you put it in drive you hear a noise out of the transmission or you put it in park or neutral your noise goes away?

Seems like its takes more rpm to get it moving engine revving higher to move?


Stalls when at a stop sign or stop light?


Dosent want to sit still in Drive and trying to move at normal engine temp?

No odd noises. I did think it shifted a bit harsh twice today, but it wasn't anything severe in my opinion.

Never stalled, although one time my RPMs did drop to around 600 when I let off the throttle and pressed the brake slightly.

Seem to sit still just fine, but it's also pretty snowy where I am, so that's hard to tell. But before I left my work, it didn't have any issues with sitting still. (I had it parked inside) It was about 4 miles into my 8 mile drive where I noticed an issue.

 

[LazeR]

Haven't heard of that on this forum.

If it were mine, I'd have it flushed, not just a simple drain/fill or two. Flushing has solved many folks problems, including mine twice on other vehicles, and it can't hurt, well other than the cost.

Luck and enjoy the Runner. :cowboy:

I would feel a lot more confident in that helping it I hadn't just had it flushed with 14qts at Toyota 7k miles ago :hurt:

I definitely rather have it flushed again and be fine than have to replace it!

 

[Bad Luck]

Well, I am little stressed to say the least.

2002, 193k miles, original motor and transmission. Trans filter replaced @ 163k by PO, I had timing belt/water pump/tensioners/cam seals replaced @ 186k, also brought it over to Toyota to have the transmission flushed at the same time.

On my way home from work today, My transmission started acting odd. When I let off the throttle it would almost feel like it was down shifting and slowing me down. It would accelerate fine, then I let off the throttle and it slows down. For kicks and giggles I kicked out overdrive, and it no longer did it. Same thing being in 2. Also for kicks and giggles I turned my Torque Pro App, and realized my transmission was running way hotter than normal, especially since it's only 22F here. It was running about 180-190F @ about 35mph. I pulled over to check to make sure I wasn't leaking any ATF, and saw no leaks. Then I checked my fluid and it seemed quite a bit darker than when I checked it the other day in the shop, but completely different lighting. When I wiped it on my finger it was still pink, but in comparison to 2 days ago I think it's darker. Also attached is a picture of the fluid color. Not the pink I'd like, but I've seen a lot worse.

My coolant Reservoir is full and doesn't look contaminated, also my radiator itself is full and doesn't look contaminated.

Was hoping maybe someone had some insight?

Thanks

P.S. I have searched on the forum, and can't find anything that describes my problem.


Transmission Fluid Color

1) Make sure your bell cranks (located on the rear brake backing plate visible from underneath) move whenever you engage/disengage the parking brake. If they're froze then it cold cause the parking brake to drag.

2) If you checked the transmission temperature after disengaging overdrive then that's not really a high temp. With overdrive disengaged the torque converter will never lock up causing lots of heat.

3) What are your engine temps during this strange behavior and how long (time) and far (distance) have you been driving for? I would consider taking it on a longer test drive (about 30 minutes or more) while watching your transmission temps. If you get over 210 degrees then pull over and idle in park to see if your temps drop after a minute or two.

4) Do you have an aftermarket transmission cooler? If yes then how is it installed? In series or bypassing the transmission cooler in the radiator?

 

[BoomerBob]

3) What are your engine temps during this strange behavior and how long (time) and far (distance) have you been driving for? I would consider taking it on a longer test drive (about 30 minutes or more) while watching your transmission temps. If you get over 210 degrees then pull over and idle in park to see if your temps drop after a minute or two.

This part made me wonder if the clutch fan is failing. Maybe it shows up in the trans heating up before the engine for some reason. Most people don't have a trans temp gauge to see what it's doing.

 

[alumarine]

2) If you checked the transmission temperature after disengaging overdrive then that's not really a high temp. With overdrive disengaged the torque converter will never lock up causing lots of heat.

I might be wrong but I believe the torque converter does lock up with over drive off.

 

[Bad Luck]

This part made me wonder if the clutch fan is failing. Maybe it shows up in the trans heating up before the engine for some reason. Most people don't have a trans temp gauge to see what it's doing.

I've never experienced a failing fan clutch so I have no idea what it could cause. The OP mentioned he has TorquePro so he should be able to get an accurate coolant temp while he's looking at trans temp.

I might be wrong but I believe the torque converter does lock up with over drive off.

Turning overdrive off prevents shifting into 4th gear. I can't find anything to support my opinion that the torque converter only locks up in 4th gear on our transmissions. Maybe I can find a way to view it with my UltraGauge.

 

[jross20]

Mine unlocks while cruising sometimes when coasting down hill, relocks after hitting the gas again. Never thought it was an issue

 

[jross20]

I would feel a lot more confident in that helping it I hadn't just had it flushed with 14qts at Toyota 7k miles ago :hurt:

I definitely rather have it flushed again and be fine than have to replace it!

I'd have a different, skilled shop, do a flush.

 

[4runnerfiend]

Temps sound about right. Our Transmissions run hot, thus why everyone puts in external coolers.

Pushing the OD butting IE only allowing transmission into 3rd gear will lock out the torque converter at around 45 mph. (don't know the exact mph)
also the torque converter will get locked out in OD (4th gear) if you are at a certain speed and not on the gas enough.

On mine i can clear tell when the torque converter is locked out. RMP's will change when in the same gear IE the torque converter is sliding a bit.

I have the same thing.. If you are cruising and let off the gas it will slow. the third gens are not very aero dynamic, and if you have larger tires or aggressive tires the rolling resistance will slow the vehicle.

That being said it is worth checking the parking break is releasing. and not holding you back.

I had a axle seal leaking on my rear brakes which caused the break pads to swell and created drag, just a thought

After changing the Trasmission fluid it will be very bright, but as it cycles thru the torque converter and all the other parts it will take on some of the old fluid. not sure it is possible to get all of it out.

I'm not a pro, these are my observations of being an owner of a 3rd gen.

 

[brillo_76]

When I change the transmission fluid. I exchange it. I pump fluid back in at the same time the transmission is pumping it out. We are close to 3 gallons in the 3rd gen. With some differences in 4wd vs 2wd and if your rig runs a external cooler or not.

I personally don't believe in the flush machines or forcing cleaning solvents etc through the system.


How I do this is taking the coolant line that runs to your radiator or external cooler and run it to a bucket.

Then I have a 2nd bucket full of new fluid and I pump it in through were the line I disconnected off hooks to.

By doing it this way. The fluid stays in the same path and isnt beating on anything or knocking things loose in a 20 year old transmission. Some users even change the metal strainer and clean the internal magnets every few exchanges

I try to exchange my fluid every 100k to 150k. With my bucket system it makes it easier for me anyhow.

If anyone interested in seeing my system you can search for Brillos_Bucket_Transmission_Fluid_Exchanger


Granted I know my pump is too big but I accidentally bought the wrong size when I replaced the original cheap chinese pump. So a 5/8 oil or diesel transfer pump will be perfect. Not a 1 inch pump.

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[JMat]

I might be wrong but I believe the torque converter does lock up with over drive off.

It does... That's why you're are able to keep trans temps down going up a hill by turning O/D off, the torque converter still locks up so you don't get the heat build up from an unlocked TC.

 

[LazeR]

I have been super busy with work and haven't been able to get back here. I did take my 4Runner to the dealer to have them look at it. I got a phone call couple hours later saying they couldn't recreate the problem. I drove down there to see if I could, and low and behold I couldn't. Later that day, it did shift into overdrive with a bang, but it was only 1 time.

1) Make sure your bell cranks (located on the rear brake backing plate visible from underneath) move whenever you engage/disengage the parking brake. If they're froze then it cold cause the parking brake to drag.

2) If you checked the transmission temperature after disengaging overdrive then that's not really a high temp. With overdrive disengaged the torque converter will never lock up causing lots of heat.

3) What are your engine temps during this strange behavior and how long (time) and far (distance) have you been driving for? I would consider taking it on a longer test drive (about 30 minutes or more) while watching your transmission temps. If you get over 210 degrees then pull over and idle in park to see if your temps drop after a minute or two.

4) Do you have an aftermarket transmission cooler? If yes then how is it installed? In series or bypassing the transmission cooler in the radiator?

1. Haven't used my parking brakes, I try not to in cold conditions, and normally the snow holds me in place just fine hahaha

2. Not allowing the transmission into overdrive actually allows it to run cooler.

3.Engine temps were normal. 195-205. Honestly I wasn't as worried about the temperature of the transmission as much as I was overdrive acting like it was locked up. Basically instead of coasting when I let off the throttle it physically slowed me down, like I was driving a manual in a gear to low.

4. No aftermarket cooler, but I am thinking about hooking one up.

This part made me wonder if the clutch fan is failing. Maybe it shows up in the trans heating up before the engine for some reason. Most people don't have a trans temp gauge to see what it's doing.

Engine temps have been fine, and I forgot to mention, the thermostat was replaced along with all the other maintenance I had done on it.

I'd have a different, skilled shop, do a flush.

I guess I am not sure how to find one of those. Would hope Toyota certified technicians would know what they were doing, but we all know that isn't always fact.

(1) Temps sound about right. Our Transmissions run hot, thus why everyone puts in external coolers.

(2) I have the same thing.. If you are cruising and let off the gas it will slow. the third gens are not very aero dynamic, and if you have larger tires or aggressive tires the rolling resistance will slow the vehicle.

(3) That being said it is worth checking the parking break is releasing. and not holding you back.

(4) I had a axle seal leaking on my rear brakes which caused the break pads to swell and created drag, just a thought

1. That they do, and the Toyota technician that I spoke with 2 days ago, said having larger tires doesn't help out either. haha

2. I have driven this thing in 5 states and about 17k miles in 6 months. This is completely different than it just slowing a little bit. It literally is like you're in 3rd gear at 55mph and let off the throttle. When I hit my brakes while it was doing it, it dropped me to about 400RPM, if I would of held the brake I am certain it would of killed the engine.

3. Don't really use the parking brake. Especially in the cold.

4. All my brakes are good. Fronts were just replaced, and rears are in good shape, with no leaks.


This is going to be a super long post, sorry :| Hopefully with my answers maybe someone will have an idea?

I did drop my fluid from my pan tonight, and it was a bit darker than it looked on the dipstick, or when wiped with a white paper towel. I saved a water bottle full, and will be sending it to Blackstone labs for analysis. Since it's not something that is consistently happening, my plan is to drop and add 1 more time, run it around a bit, then I am going to drop my pan, check the screen, and magnets, refill, and do a poor mans flush. I have decided to use Valvoline MaxLife Red Cap. So I guess we will see what happens, and I will try to keep this thread updated!

 

[BoomerBob]

Could have a sticky piston on your front brake calipers. If so it would cause a pull to one side if you let go of the steering wheel on a flat road without much of a crown.

 

[brillo_76]

Does the transmission shift points change when you switch from normal to ect? Maybe your transmission is going into pwr instead of normal and not displaying the change. I never heard of this but just a thought.

Another possibility is your transmission is not shifting properly. Via a binding shift down cable or a solenoid non functioning properly.


One would think the Toyota certified techinitions would know what they were doing. However, when they changed my struts that are lifetime warranted in my 02 Camry they left a seat bolt on my backseat floor. So you cant always count on it. :[

I can leave bolts out for free.. [emoji14]



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[Bad Luck]

[MENTION=417718]LazeR[/MENTION] It's still worth checking the parking brake operation even if you don't use it. The reason I suggested a longer test drive is to make sure that the transmission is given a chance to get past any "failsafe" behaviors caused by the extra cold weather. It will also give you a better chance of noticing any changes in driving from the initial start throughout the longer drive. The more info we have the better we can try to narrow it down.

 

[LazeR]

[MENTION=417718]LazeR[/MENTION] It's still worth checking the parking brake operation even if you don't use it. The reason I suggested a longer test drive is to make sure that the transmission is given a chance to get past any "failsafe" behaviors caused by the extra cold weather. It will also give you a better chance of noticing any changes in driving from the initial start throughout the longer drive. The more info we have the better we can try to narrow it down.

It's definitely not the parking brake. It only happened when my 4runner shifted into overdrive, and when I clicked it into neutral it freewheeled perfectly fine. (This was done while I was having the issue.)

I have driven it all over town, then onto the highway to get to work, everything was sitting at operating temperature for quite awhile.

Currently I haven't had another issue.

I am hopefully sending my fluid off today to Blackstone, and tomorrow I will drop and fill again to see what happens.

 

[Bad Luck]

It's definitely not the parking brake. It only happened when my 4runner shifted into overdrive, and when I clicked it into neutral it freewheeled perfectly fine. (This was done while I was having the issue.)

I have driven it all over town, then onto the highway to get to work, everything was sitting at operating temperature for quite awhile.

Currently I haven't had another issue.

I am hopefully sending my fluid off today to Blackstone, and tomorrow I will drop and fill again to see what happens.

Thanks for the additional info. Does the "dragging" feeling only occur while coasting in 4th gear?

Edit: The reason I say it's worth checking the parking brake operation is because the rear shoes get adjusted by engaging the parking brake. It would really suck for me if I had to do a rear brake job and then find out the bell cranks are seized and I can't adjust the rear shoes with it. Yes, I could still use a screwdriver to turn the adjuster wheel, but I'm lazy and the parking brake when operating correctly will get the shoes in just the right spot.