Welding on sliders this weekend!

[tyr0981]

So to those that have done this before.... I have a wire fed MIG welder that says it can weld up to 12ga steel, the frame on the 4runner is .090 thick (13 gauge), the sliders mounts are WAY WAY thicker, like 1/2 inch i'd say, so technically this should be relatively easy as long has most of the heat goes into the slider mount.... right?

i'm very nervous of over heating a section of frame and compromising it's strength..... I've purchased the 4x innovations sliders, they've got square plate steel mounts, i've read on here that they should be mounted on the frame like a diamond symbol is orientated (picture) so the top of it can be accessed.

And lastly, should i weld one side at a t time, let it cool for a time, then weld another side, right?

all your input is appreciate! i'm a fairly competent welder, just like some experience to chime in. Thanks for the support gents!

:bat:

 

[MStudt]

Tack them all in place to make sure you have them where you want them. I'd weld one side, then move onto the next plate, weld one side, and so on. By time you come back around the one you started with will be cooled enough. You can bevel the edges of the 1/2" plate so you won't need so much heat too. You also don't need a really wide pile. If you lay a wide pile you'll risk blowing holes through the frame. You could also bevel the edge, lay a narrow pile around the plate, and lay another pile on top of that.

 

[tyr0981]

That's a great idea, beveling the edges of the plates will show the depth of "the pile" very well! great idea!

 

[kolelt]

I highly recommend a gusset set with a plate. Weld a plate first to the frame, then weld the slider legs to the plate and add a gusset. The plate provides a better more evenly distributed stress. Welding straight on frame can be bad if you land hard on rocks. Simply not strong enough.

Trail gear sets a set of 6 plates and 6 gusset for around $30

 

[Asaspades93]

4x comes with 6 gussets. I had a shop weld mine on (the guy doing it has a built fj80) and he did the plates square to the frame. Haven't tried them yet besides my own weight but they are strong

 

[tyr0981]

Yeah i didn't know the ~1/2 inch thick plates where called gussets, i have them all and think the beveling of there edges will help see my depth ALLOT better.

So 2 of the legs are allot longer then the others, i assume the longer legs go on the back so the "kickout" will be farther out, right?

or should i be reading some install manual i'm not aware of? :rtfm:

 

[MStudt]

Yeah i didn't know the ~1/2 inch thick plates where called gussets, i have them all and think the beveling of there edges will help see my depth ALLOT better.

For starters what welder do you have? If you have a 140 you'll need to make a second pass for sure. If you have a 180 you'll be able to single pass it with no issues. If you have a 180 and you'll concerned about burning a hole in the frame then I'd make two passes. Something else that I would do as well would be adding a plug weld to the center of each mounting plate. You're looking for a nice blue tint around the edge of the 1/2" plates. You can see the blue in the picture below, and that is good penetration.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Yeah i didn't know the ~1/2 inch thick plates where called gussets, i have them all and think the beveling of there edges will help see my depth ALLOT better.

So 2 of the legs are allot longer then the others, i assume the longer legs go on the back so the "kickout" will be farther out, right?

or should i be reading some install manual i'm not aware of? :rtfm:

Those are NOT 1/2" plates, but they are every bit of 5/16" or possibly 3/8". They are also NOT gussetts, the gusset would triangulate between the plate, and the tube, like a brace or stiffener. Generally this would be a vertical triangle on top of the tube and all the way against the plate.

You will need to be patient to use that welder, but it is certainly doable.

Here is a link to a gussett with a good picture.

Toyota Rock Slider Gusset Kits | Olympic 4x4 Supply

:couch2:

 

[tyr0981]

For starters what welder do you have? If you have a 140 you'll need to make a second pass for sure. If you have a 180 you'll be able to single pass it with no issues. If you have a 180 and you'll concerned about burning a hole in the frame then I'd make two passes. Something else that I would do as well would be adding a plug weld to the center of each mounting plate. You're looking for a nice blue tint around the edge of the 1/2" plates. You can see the blue in the picture below, and that is good penetration.

it's actually a MIG 105, I've successfully welded 3/8 before (many passes....) made a pulley tensioner outlasted the farm truck it was built for, was 1/8 i think..... The highest setting is labeled for 10ga steel, the frame is no issue, the tub'es (.120 wall) are no issue, but that plate may be a big issue! I'm concerned that trying to get some penetration on that plate (in my hands of NOT being a professional welder) could weaken the frame by trying to hard, and applying too much heat in that one place..... than bad things would happen.

Those are NOT 1/2" plates, but they are every bit of 5/16" or possibly 3/8". They are also NOT gussetts, the gusset would triangulate between the plate, and the tube, like a brace or stiffener. Generally this would be a vertical triangle on top of the tube and all the way against the plate.

You will need to be patient to use that welder, but it is certainly doable.

Here is a link to a gussett with a good picture.

Toyota Rock Slider Gusset Kits | Olympic 4x4 Supply

:couch2:

nice looking gussets! Shrockworks makes there sliders with something similar, never heard a negative about them.

the plates are 1/4 inch thick (just measured with calipers), so yeah much thicker then my 105 was built for.....

 

[MStudt]

it's actually a MIG 105, I've successfully welded 3/8 before (many passes....) made a pulley tensioner outlasted the farm truck it was built for, was 1/8 i think..... The highest setting is labeled for 10ga steel, the frame is no issue, the tub'es (.120 wall) are no issue, but that plate may be a big issue! I'm concerned that trying to get some penetration on that plate (in my hands of NOT being a professional welder) could weaken the frame by trying to hard, and applying too much heat in that one place..... than bad things would happen.

You can use a blow torch to preheat the plate, and that should help some. You know within the first 10 seconds if you're going to blow a hole in the frame or not. Good luck to you!

 

[csp]

You should be concentrating the heat on the plates and drag the puddle onto the frame. That's how you'll keep from burning through it.

 

[tyr0981]

You should be concentrating the heat on the plates and drag the puddle onto the frame. That's how you'll keep from burning through it.

Defiantly.

Welding begins on Monday or maybe Tuesday! :naughty:

 

[Asaspades93]

if I remember in the morning I'll take a pic of mine

 

[Asaspades93]

[MENTION=88966]tyr0981[/MENTION] Sorry, I didn't get them up yesterday. Hopefully they are some help. I'm not sure why he put the gussets on the bottom but they are solid

 

[csp]

Those gussets would just punch through the tube if enough downward pressure was put on them.

Gussets on tube should be on the sides of the tube when made out of plate. Gussets made out of tube can be centered on the tube.

Not my image, but it explains how a plate gusset should attach to the tube. This spreads the forces rather than concentrating it on the end of the gusset welded to the center.

 

[Asaspades93]

The only downward weight would be passenger climbing in so I'm not too worried. I saw the post about them being on the side before they went on but I didn't get a chance to talk to the welder.

 

[IBallEngineer]

That doesn't sound right to me, now having two gussets instead of one would obviously be a good thing normally. But you only have weld on one side, and since the weld ends up shouldering the load it seems inherently week. Having observed a few hundred race car roll cages using minimal gusseting at the center of the tube, I'm inclined to just stick with that.

There may be a mathematical equation to prove me wrong, I'll admit to some ignorance there. But I have a 7000lb rig, and I have come down hard enough to bend the tubes, but I have not hit the rocker with the tubes perpendicular to my frame, and they use a top gusset.

Not only that but it looks sexier on top, or so she told me.

:fro:

 

[csp]

The problem with one in the center is the very end of the gusset attachment point becomes a bending moment. The small size of that point bearing all the load, along with the HAZ of the weld, makes is susceptible to tearing through the tube.

The leverage acts just like the pointed end of this can opener.

Most of the time it's not an issue, but it is worth pointing out for someone looking to add gussets.

 

[Asaspades93]

The problem with one in the center is the very end of the gusset attachment point becomes a bending moment. The small size of that point bearing all the load, along with the HAZ of the weld, makes is susceptible to tearing through the tube.

Most of the time it's not an issue, but it is worth pointing out for someone looking to add gussets.

Yea I get that. Thats just the route the guy took and theres not much I can do without cutting them off and rewelding them. Idk if the pics are clear enough, but the actual point of the gussets sticks off below the plate and frame so I'm not worried about it going thru the frame.
I would recommend them done the way you guys describe though

 

[tyr0981]

well this weekend went no where near planned... issues installing my body lift (steering knuckle battle that took ~4 hours for R & R) and then today my welders wire pulley wheel wore smoothly so the wire feed was coming out too slowly, then it turned off in the middle of welding one of the legs to the 'gusset' because it was too hot!!!

and now it's raining outside...... so no install today. maybe this upcoming weekend all of my stars will align.

:flamethrwoer2:

[MENTION=91423]Asaspades93[/MENTION]

Good debate on sliders mounts, not sure what to make of them, the pictures don't show allot of details of the welds but if they can hold up your rig, they must have done something right!