We're all doomed
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There have been and always will be people who have no interest in learning the simplest of things like changing a flat tire. These are the same people who treat everything as disposable. But wait...that's what our country has become. Maybe not everyone, but the overwhelming majority of us.
Why did this happen? Well, look at how inexpensive it is to buy most goods. Why spend the time/effort/money to fix something when you can just throw it away and buy another one for a few extra bucks? I know that doesn't really apply to a flat tire, but the point is that we, as a society, helped create this problem. I don't really blame the kids, even if they are lazy little bastards. I see this all the time though.....kids today are far more interested in their cell phones than cars in general. It's kinda sad, but I don't see the trend changing any time soon.
Why did this happen? Well, look at how inexpensive it is to buy most goods. Why spend the time/effort/money to fix something when you can just throw it away and buy another one for a few extra bucks? I know that doesn't really apply to a flat tire, but the point is that we, as a society, helped create this problem. I don't really blame the kids, even if they are lazy little bastards. I see this all the time though.....kids today are far more interested in their cell phones than cars in general. It's kinda sad, but I don't see the trend changing any time soon.
BlackWorksInc
New member
The sad truth is that real world skills are non-existant in most kids and mental plasticity is also something that is not actively taught in today's world. That's an over simplification to be honest, but the reality is America's youth is basically taught to bubble in tests and that's it. There's little to no encouragement in expanding their knowledge base or providing a fundamental basis for encouraging real world problem solving.
In [MENTION=87539]wnelax04sr5[/MENTION]'s case a mechanical engineering is someone who SHOULD have both the knowledge and metal plasticity too apply that knowledge to similar things. i.e. If they can design a tool and/or scissor jack; they should be smart enough to figure out how the tools are used and how they are applied (since that would be part of ENGINEERING IT!) not to mention important forces such as leverage, mechanical force, ect. If this is what our tax money goes to and what schools like Harvard and such charge ridiculous sums of money to "teach" our future, its no small damn wonder that there's Tin Whiskers, a prevalence of idiocy, and engineered shit falling apart all the damn time among other issues! (sorry [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], unfortunately the large majority of engineers I meet on a regular basis are either so compartmentalized in their knowledge that they're little more than "rain men" or absolute idiots that managed to pay for a 4+year degree where a "simple" mechanic like me can run circles around them.)
I think I'm going to stop there... because otherwise I am going to into a multi-page thesis on how the American People have become progressively weaker, compliant, lazy, lacking in intelligence, ect.
In [MENTION=87539]wnelax04sr5[/MENTION]'s case a mechanical engineering is someone who SHOULD have both the knowledge and metal plasticity too apply that knowledge to similar things. i.e. If they can design a tool and/or scissor jack; they should be smart enough to figure out how the tools are used and how they are applied (since that would be part of ENGINEERING IT!) not to mention important forces such as leverage, mechanical force, ect. If this is what our tax money goes to and what schools like Harvard and such charge ridiculous sums of money to "teach" our future, its no small damn wonder that there's Tin Whiskers, a prevalence of idiocy, and engineered shit falling apart all the damn time among other issues! (sorry [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], unfortunately the large majority of engineers I meet on a regular basis are either so compartmentalized in their knowledge that they're little more than "rain men" or absolute idiots that managed to pay for a 4+year degree where a "simple" mechanic like me can run circles around them.)
I think I'm going to stop there... because otherwise I am going to into a multi-page thesis on how the American People have become progressively weaker, compliant, lazy, lacking in intelligence, ect.
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1engineer
Moderator
I can speak from both the engineering and the parent perspective. First engineers:
There are primarily two types of degreed engineers - Practical and theoretical. My son and I are perfect examples. I am much more the practical one and he is the theoretical one. When I I was in college it was easy to tell the difference by the lab projects. In the classroom when dealing with advanced concepts I did ok but I much preferred the applications. My son is a junior now but he is way better than I am at the advanced stuff. He can wrench a bit but prefers the higher thinking. The truth is the world needs both types. There are a few who are both but they are truly the unicorns in our world.
Now the kids.
Don't blame them, blame their dumbass parents. My kids are the first generation to grow up in the Xbox and cell phone and internet era from birth. We embraced the technology while recognizing the value of the "old" ways. Most parents just didn't have a clue and failed miserably in some aspects of raising their kids. Truth is the kids will be fine. Some will learn, albeit later, how to do stuff. Others will go into a world and hire everything like that done.it might actually be better because it will make things like ditch digging a more important and desirable job.
Supra725
New member
I have a co-worker of mine...
he is now 22 but has the common sense of a 12 years old, one day.. he drove to work and didn't know the temperature gauge was higher than normal. and right before work, his car over heated and I saw him.. pulled over and asked ' you know there is water in the radiator correct?'. his reply, I didn't know... on top of that, he doesn't know how to open the hood or check the air in the tires.. all he knows is put gas in the car and drive..
he is now 22 but has the common sense of a 12 years old, one day.. he drove to work and didn't know the temperature gauge was higher than normal. and right before work, his car over heated and I saw him.. pulled over and asked ' you know there is water in the radiator correct?'. his reply, I didn't know... on top of that, he doesn't know how to open the hood or check the air in the tires.. all he knows is put gas in the car and drive..
BlackWorksInc
New member
I guess, I don't it just boggles the mind how someone who has spent a good chunk of their adult life learning how to engineer things like VVTi phasers, efficient hydraulic systems for multi-ton cranes, and/or highly technical gearboxes for a 4-Jaw horizontal lathe can't use at least a few brain cell to extrapolate the function of a scissor jack and lug wrench... :dizzy:
Its not just engineers, I mean its strange how high IQ does not directly translate to "genius" or even intelligence. I have met people who are truly brilliant in mathematics or physics and I have spent much time and energy trying to explain why their 4-cyl Kia makes that "whistling noise" at the like barely open, Asian-Grandmother-like application of throttle that they insist is "normal" driving. I literally get to a point where I'm like, "dude... its air rushing over a flat plane through a small opening (created by a slightly open throttle blade) in a tube... how much more simple do I have to explain it!? Don't you make turbines?!"
The people who I consider truly brilliant are people who cannot only learn the shit out of one field (because I'll be honest, if you have a decent IQ and some focus you can master any one field with enough time and effort, no offense to anyone intended.) Its the people who have the mental plasticity to extrapolate their learned traits into other fields. Some people are inately born with it from the get go, but it is not exclusively a genetic thing. It is something that can be taught and learned; its an expansion of "problem-solving" essentially. You learn to wield your mind far better than most others by relying upon multiple sections of your intelligence.
For example, anyone who understands how an engine works, understands the following to at least a minimum extent:
- Leverage (Valvetrain, Crankshaft, chain drives, ect.)
- Thermal Dynamics (Heat Expansion valves, Cooling Systems, Thermostats, ect.)
- Chemical Reactions (Air/Fuel Ratio, Catalytic Converters, Carbon Build-up, ect.)
- Metallurgy (Cast Iron Blocks, Aluminum Heads, Aluminum Sleeved Engines, Titanium Valves, ect.)
- Hydraulics (VVTi, Oil Passages, Automatic Transmissions, ect.)
- Electrical Theory (Ohm's Law, Circuitry, Electron Flow, ect.)
- Computerization (Basic Computation, Input/Outputs, Sensors, Modules, Networks, ect.)
- Physics (Pick something in a vehicle and it will be a great example of some mechanical, chemical, and/or thermal principle of physics)
Now someone who has a basic understanding of any of the above concepts can further expand on that through creative thinking, problem solving, and intelligence to work on a train, plane, or even a submarine. Hell they can figure out how to machine, design, and fabricate equipment; they could apply it to other fields such as science or medicine (it seems like a stretch, but you just replace concepts such as ball-joints with hip sockets, the heart with a multi-chamber compressor, blood with an oiling system, nervous system with an OBDII CAN based network system.) All the mental architecture is there, its just about learning to make your thinking plastic enough to use core concepts that you've learned to FIGURE IT OUT!
If you're smart enough to work on a modern vehicle, you're smart enough to be an engineer or a doctor as long as you can learn to mentally adapt your thinking to analyze and relate concepts in such a way that you can quickly grasp and build on them.
That's where I see a lot of people falling flat on their faces, you just look at them and go, "did you not learn about leverage, mechanical forces, and have you never taken the screw top off your Coca-Cola before?" Because if they have done that, there is no damn reason they can't look at a scissor jack and combine the pretty pictures on the jack with an understanding of real world thinking!
*Takes deep breath* Sorry, maybe I'm just "too smart" or something because it seems like its pretty damn simple to me.
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A.Wilson013
New member
my92t4r
New member
Bring it....:50cal::50cal:
ben550
New member
Reading the original post was so sad.
Not long ago I pulled into a Target parking lot and saw a minivan parked across from me with a flat right rear tire. A middle age mother was in the car with three small children. It was raining and cold. I sat for a minute or two as the mother got out and began rummaging around the trunk looking for the spare/tools. It was obvious she did not know what she was looking for or doing. I watched as several young men walked by, looking at the tire, and walking past going into the store. The mother was on her phone and looked flustered, so I finally got out and walked over to her. I asked her if she needed help and offered to change the tire for her. I just told her to sit in the car to get out of the rain. I changed the tire in a few minutes and she was on her way.
Maybe the reason all those guys walked by was because they didn't know how to help. At the time I thought they were just lazy or self absorbed, but after reading this thread maybe they just didn't know how to change a tire...
Not long ago I pulled into a Target parking lot and saw a minivan parked across from me with a flat right rear tire. A middle age mother was in the car with three small children. It was raining and cold. I sat for a minute or two as the mother got out and began rummaging around the trunk looking for the spare/tools. It was obvious she did not know what she was looking for or doing. I watched as several young men walked by, looking at the tire, and walking past going into the store. The mother was on her phone and looked flustered, so I finally got out and walked over to her. I asked her if she needed help and offered to change the tire for her. I just told her to sit in the car to get out of the rain. I changed the tire in a few minutes and she was on her way.
Maybe the reason all those guys walked by was because they didn't know how to help. At the time I thought they were just lazy or self absorbed, but after reading this thread maybe they just didn't know how to change a tire...
wnelax04sr5
New member
sometimes people worry legally too. my dad, who taught me everything i know about cars before i found the internet ( :bigok: ), told me he never helps people change flats unless they are already attempting to and pose a danger to themselves or others. he says he doesnt help because he's worried that he will help someone, something happens, either a failure in the spare or something, and he's going to get sued for it. might be an empty concern, but in the sue happy country we live in, i see his point of view
swapmeet
New member
This thread has been quite cathartic for me. Most everyone here feels exactly like I do and that makes me feel a little better.
I really like the comment about it being good that people are more and more lazy because those of us who instil a good work ethic, common sense and problem solving skils etc etc into our kids are giving them a huge leg up.
I'll play devils advocate... since this is my thread and I can...
IMO... humans, will look for a way to make things easier. Ever since the first knuckle dragger figured out he could move a rock easier by rolling it on some logs. This morning I was actually contemplating how the first Indian (feather, not dot) figured out how to make an arrow head. (probably another conversation for another time...)
So while some of us are old enough to know the pains of having to tune a carburetor on our daily, or we've at least heard stories... those days are gone. Car's are an appliance because the public craves reliability. So mfg's build reliable cars. Look at us! We all drive bullet proof Toyota's, right?
Some of the most successful business owners I know worked on farms as children. Doing hard manual labor.
My point is that maybe nobody learns because they haven't been forced to. The best way to learn is the hard way. Pick a topic... changing a tire... building a fire... replacing drywall... dead battery in your car...
Our desire for (and receipt of) a easier life is diluting the very thing we're all reveling in.
When I was 15, I wanted a S10 Blazer for my first car so badly... My father bought one as his daily driver and I got to drive it when I got my permit. His intention was to sell it to me. Well that little blazer had its share of problems. I think we replaced the alternator like 14 times (Autozone rebuilt Alternator). As a result, I can diagnose the charging system on a car with a dead battery over the phone (as i'm sure many of you might be able to as well.) Why can I do that? Cause I was thrust into learning about it via a problematic car and even worse replacement parts. So because of the reliability of everything we touch, we are thrust into learning nothing... besides how to beat Candy Crush Saga...
I really like the comment about it being good that people are more and more lazy because those of us who instil a good work ethic, common sense and problem solving skils etc etc into our kids are giving them a huge leg up.
I'll play devils advocate... since this is my thread and I can...
IMO... humans, will look for a way to make things easier. Ever since the first knuckle dragger figured out he could move a rock easier by rolling it on some logs. This morning I was actually contemplating how the first Indian (feather, not dot) figured out how to make an arrow head. (probably another conversation for another time...)
So while some of us are old enough to know the pains of having to tune a carburetor on our daily, or we've at least heard stories... those days are gone. Car's are an appliance because the public craves reliability. So mfg's build reliable cars. Look at us! We all drive bullet proof Toyota's, right?
Some of the most successful business owners I know worked on farms as children. Doing hard manual labor.
My point is that maybe nobody learns because they haven't been forced to. The best way to learn is the hard way. Pick a topic... changing a tire... building a fire... replacing drywall... dead battery in your car...
Our desire for (and receipt of) a easier life is diluting the very thing we're all reveling in.
When I was 15, I wanted a S10 Blazer for my first car so badly... My father bought one as his daily driver and I got to drive it when I got my permit. His intention was to sell it to me. Well that little blazer had its share of problems. I think we replaced the alternator like 14 times (Autozone rebuilt Alternator). As a result, I can diagnose the charging system on a car with a dead battery over the phone (as i'm sure many of you might be able to as well.) Why can I do that? Cause I was thrust into learning about it via a problematic car and even worse replacement parts. So because of the reliability of everything we touch, we are thrust into learning nothing... besides how to beat Candy Crush Saga...
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96 ToyRunner
Member
I was going to a church youth event and one of the driver's got a blow out so we all parked to help out...wwwweeeelll there was 2 guys and one adult leader trying to get it done and that's when I pull in 3 min.later so I tell one of my friends this is a disaster after 5 min.I said alright that's it watch out I got this :surfer: ...But wait there's more I'm under the SUV all 8-9000 of it and its bouncing around there's 4 girls jump in and out laugh and having fun I stand up and like a police officer I yell y'all get out of the car NOW ....I got the tire on in 2 min.:frusty:
wnelax04sr5
New member
reminds me of a quote i use all the time, but can't remember where i heard it
"you don't learn something by not doing it"
macgyver_ga
New member
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right"
I try to live my life by that quote...
wnelax04sr5
New member
henry ford, good one
macgyver_ga
New member
There's a difference between being downright lazy and worthlesss and the people who try to solve problems.
I would call myself a lazy person, however I'm always trying to find more innovative ways of doing things to support my laziness. I try to evaluate the difference between the time it would take to do something "the way it's always been done" vs. my time savings in the future if it's something that can be improved. I would attribute the advances in my career at my age to that mindset I have. It's the entreprenuer in me I guess...
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junkyardbiker
New member
I love the challenge of learning how to do something new. But I am a machinist, so I guess mine comes naturally. I make my money from seemingly simple things that used to be common knowledge, and a few things that probably seem like voodoo to most. The only thing I have no concept of is computers, and no desire to deal with it. Thats voodoo to me. Ive never taken a vehicle to a mechanic unless it involves tools I cant afford, and then I only have them do the bare minimum.
wake_rider
New member
As seen by every single person from preceeding generations, every new generation is damned to doom our planet.
There's a word for that. "Old." We're all heading that direction eventually.
I had a mechanically advanced father, who never spent a day teaching me how to do anything with tools. I had access to his tools though, so I taught myself first on my bmx bikes, then on the truck I bought on my 16th birthday... with cash. You can just imagine what kind of shape that thing was in when I bought it. lol.
That's the greater issue. It's not generational, it's cultural. As a society based upon economy, it's bad for the economy if people aren't buying new things. So, every commercial, every voice of culture is telling you to replace what is broken with new, rather than repair. As such, most people never develop the skills, knowledge, or even the desire/curiosity to learn how to fix things.
Just last week I found out that my sister-in-law (wife's older sister) and her husband paid the dealership in Ft. Worth, Texas, $395 to turn their front discs, lube the caliper pins, and replace the brake pads on a 2012 Rav4. Just the week prior they were here in Oklahoma for Thanksgiving, and I told my brother-in-law to go buy the pads and bring them over, and we could do it in 90 minutes (including the visit to the machine shop about a mile away from my house to turn the rotors) He had zero interest. Seriously, zero.... 38 year old man who said it was a greater inconvenience to do it that way than to leave his car at the dealership for 2 days while they gave it to him hard over a simple brake job. It makes no sense to me, but hey, gotta keep that economy flourishing, right? He's just doing his part.
There's a word for that. "Old." We're all heading that direction eventually.
I had a mechanically advanced father, who never spent a day teaching me how to do anything with tools. I had access to his tools though, so I taught myself first on my bmx bikes, then on the truck I bought on my 16th birthday... with cash. You can just imagine what kind of shape that thing was in when I bought it. lol.
That's the greater issue. It's not generational, it's cultural. As a society based upon economy, it's bad for the economy if people aren't buying new things. So, every commercial, every voice of culture is telling you to replace what is broken with new, rather than repair. As such, most people never develop the skills, knowledge, or even the desire/curiosity to learn how to fix things.
Just last week I found out that my sister-in-law (wife's older sister) and her husband paid the dealership in Ft. Worth, Texas, $395 to turn their front discs, lube the caliper pins, and replace the brake pads on a 2012 Rav4. Just the week prior they were here in Oklahoma for Thanksgiving, and I told my brother-in-law to go buy the pads and bring them over, and we could do it in 90 minutes (including the visit to the machine shop about a mile away from my house to turn the rotors) He had zero interest. Seriously, zero.... 38 year old man who said it was a greater inconvenience to do it that way than to leave his car at the dealership for 2 days while they gave it to him hard over a simple brake job. It makes no sense to me, but hey, gotta keep that economy flourishing, right? He's just doing his part.
