What Am I Going to Do Right - Audio Version
- Thread starter tbst
- Start date
tbst
New member
I guess I didn't clarify. Two amps. One for components. One for 10" subwoofer. I want the cleanest look possible.
To the point that all I have to do is unclip some Anderson clips to remove the subwoofer box.
I don't really want to attach the other amp to the subwoofer box, but I guess I could do that.
I just feel that it attracts the "steal me" attention more than just subwoofers do.
To the point that all I have to do is unclip some Anderson clips to remove the subwoofer box.
I don't really want to attach the other amp to the subwoofer box, but I guess I could do that.
I just feel that it attracts the "steal me" attention more than just subwoofers do.
BrianSD_42
New member
Put the Alpine under the drivers seat. Only keep one amp under the seat since it will get hot. Put the other one next to the Sub or screw it into the subwoofer box. Alternatively Velcro it onto the backside of the rear seats. You can do any of these and still have it look very clean.
Keep in mind that you must** have a cargo cover or blanket back there anyways covering the rear amp and sub so that people walking by do not see the subwoofers and steal them.
Standard car insurance may not cover your subwoofers but a renters/homeowners policy will. Just make sure you have a $100 deductible on your renters insurance.
My wiring setup:
4G+ run from the battery to the a 4G distribution block located under the drivers side rear** seat.
4G+ from the distribution block to the Alpine amp under the seat (pretty short cable)
4G(-) from the Alpine amp to a separate ground. I used the rear seat belt bolt after sanding the paint off.
4G+ from the distribution block to the sub amp located in the cargo area.
4G(-) from the rear sub amp to a different ground point, again a large bolt (seat-belts are good) with the metal sanded down.
$29 4 Gauge Distribution Block (put this under the rear seat)
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_211DBX3434/StreetWires-DBX3434.html?tp=3001
*** I am running 900W RMS between my two Amps ***
Rules:
* Always sand the paint off making a clean ground connection
* Separate grounds for each amp (don't cross the streams)
* Run each cable from the D-block keeping them as short as possible +/- 6 inches
* Each ground wire must be the same gauge as the (+) wiring. Don't ask why just Google Ohm's Law.
* Install a cargo cover or put a blanket over your subs; cargo covers look very clean
* Use 4G wiring for your cable kit to and from the D-block.
* Note that not all 4G wiring is truly 4G. Be sure to check the reviews on ebay or Amazon or Crutchfield for any wiring kit you buy.
* Use a separate power line to power the aftermarket stereo. I use a totally separate (10 or 12G) positive wire from the battery straight my head unit. I have a separate ground as well ran back to the battery.
Some Advice
*** If you have to use 8G (because you already bought it) then plan on the 4G upgrade soon. With those two amps you will really need to upgrade to 4G.
*** I do not have any loop-back issues. The only time I have experienced loop-back is when I plugged my phone charger into the phone and the aux-in 2.5m cable into my phone at the same time. Without the charger no loop-back. With only the aux-in plugged up then no loop-back. If you want to avoid loop-back then follow my install setup and don't use the Toyota factory power & ground (just my belief, not proven).
*** Don't get a CAP. I recently removed mine from my system because I installed an Optima battery and figured let the Optima do its job. Before even considering a CAP you should upgrade to a true 4G wiring kit.
Here is my cargo setup with the subwoofer amp under that towel. I normally drive around with the cargo cover so it looks very clean.
:girl:
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tbst
New member
Can you extrapolate?
Ohms law makes me sick after EE.
Maybe I will (and probably should) do this when I have everything torn apart.
Loopback is noise? Didn't find much on a Google search. Will continue looking.
Hopefully after a few more posts, the install will be what I am doing not bull****ting on here.
I bought a "4" gauge amp wiring kit from Amazon. Overall people said it is good, and it is a lot beefier than an 8 gauge I saw. (The inners not the outers).
However, just to clarify a few things.
So what I have decided to do, for my own cleanliness, and due to the fact that selling that **** Pioneer amp is impossible, is install the Pioneer under the driver seat and then the Alpine in the jack area. (Some sawing will be required, however only a little due to Alpine amp footprint.) I would put the Pioneer there, however it won't fit easily.
I bought a distribution block from sonicelectronix last week. I will run the + from the battery to under the seat. After looking at your post I could run it the same way you did (rear seat).
I will run 10 gauge wire from the drivers seat to the subwoofer box in the back. (Reminds me, I need to build that.)
Then from the D-block (good term, better than a C-block), I will run to the Alpine amp in the jack area.
Both will have their own grounds, pretty easily. Front I am imagining the seat mount back it will be easy as it is all sheetmetal in the jack area.
From here I have a couple points that clarification would be nice.
First, see the diagram below. It says that I need Y cables to properly connect the Alpine. Is that true? See below. (I am going to run bridged bc I am not running rears.)
That leads into my second question. My HU has subwoofer pre-amp outs (correct terminology?). So should I do the Y cables to the Alpine amplifier, and then run another set of RCA cables to the Pioneer amp from the subwoofer pre-amp outs? Or should I do the Y cables and then run from the Alpine to the Pioneer?
The latter option would be a little cumbersome, because I would then have to run the RCA cable from the Alpine amp to the Pioneer alongside the power cables. Would this matter as far as noise goes, for a subwoofer?
I am guessing all those subwoofer pre-amp outputs do is us a LP filter? See diagram from below for my HU.
Also, as a side note, the Pioneer amp I got says it was manufactured in Dec 2008 at the bottom. Does this still qualify as new? Seem fishy?
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BrianSD_42
New member
I can't explain further. It is just my personal opinion that you should not "share grounds" on car audio amplifiers. I don't have the links I just believe I am right.
As far as the loop-back noise what that means is a high pitch sound that rises with the RPMs of the engine. I do not have this sound but on my previous vehicle I had the issue.
My 4 channel amplifier has two "gain" settings. I only ran a single L+R audio cable and a separate cable for the subs. I then used the y-connectors so that the sound went into the rear and front channels.
The L RCA cable goes from the head unit to the Y connector which goes into L-front and L-rear. The opposite for the other side.
If you have rear speakers then this will work well for you. Yes, you will not be able to "fade" via the head unit but you can do it manually on the amp. I don't have kids and rarely have passengers so I never use the fade.
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DirtDawg
New member
I would strongly not recommend you attaching the amp to your sub box. Doing so will shorten the life of your amplifier. I have had several cases where I get people telling me that their amps stopped working. Upon inspection, components inside the amp had come apart. Its rare, but it can happen. The constant vibrations from the sub and box are sometimes a little too much. Just my 2 cents. :hatsoff:
tbst
New member
Yeah, I have read that online as well. I think the amount of victims are much less than the amount of hype.
However, because I want the cleanest look possible, I am going to install one under the seat and one under the back passenger seat where the jack goes.
BrianSD_42
New member
Well I haven't had any problems with the way I have it setup (pictured earlier) but I understand why people might think that is an issue.
Here is why I disagree: the whole purpose of a CLASS-D monoblock amplifier is to power 1-2 subwoofers that will 99% of the time be placed within a foot of the amp. Any quality manufacturer's products will hold up just fine to the vibrations.
Clean is good though!
tbst
New member
While the cost of the amps and woofer and speakers killed me, the other **** is killing me two. Wiring kits. Door clips (broke some), Y rca cables, additional RCA cable, 4 gauge spade connectors, distribution block subwoofer box, speaker cable, subwoofer speaker cable. Stuff is starting to add up!
Ordering more crap from Ebay now.
Ordering more crap from Ebay now.
OHP
New member
I just ran across this thread and skimmed through it. I spent several years as a car audio installer and I'm curious how the system is coming? Specifically, what did you do about an enclosure? (I may have missed it in the posts) I think the equipment you have will definitely make a good stereo?
BrianSD_42
New member
Going to need more info than that. What is the full audio setup?
I got a t100 this summer. I saw a write up of how to put some 6x9 in the rear of the ext cab and instantly thought that had to be cool. Not knowing any better, I yanked out all the trim, played carpenter and stuck some $50 rockfords back there. There are a lot of holes for the seatbelts and such that can't be covered and the result is not pleasing. There is a harsh peak maybe 150 200hz? Lower bass is not there but the highs are IYF and not good because they are behind you. I thought maybe they were wired out of phase but apparently not. I put some 6.5 reference in the front. They are ok but don't reach that deep either. Kind of compounding my problem.
Spent yesterday putting some $70 pioneer components in the 2runner and sealing up the doors They are far superior sounding running off the aftermarket head. Bass is much more smooth, no punchy-irritating resonances or peaks. It went pretty well except the front middle clip on the door panel won't stay in.
I'm going to go tear my truck apart. Again.
Spent yesterday putting some $70 pioneer components in the 2runner and sealing up the doors They are far superior sounding running off the aftermarket head. Bass is much more smooth, no punchy-irritating resonances or peaks. It went pretty well except the front middle clip on the door panel won't stay in.
I'm going to go tear my truck apart. Again.
tbst
New member
I actually have not installed any of the equipment yet. Have a huge box of stuff sitting in the living room of my 600 sq ft apartment. Need to move it to the 4runner, as the GF doesn't love it.
I have not taken advantage of these nice days because I returned the crappy DB Link wiring kit I had for a KnuKonceptz wiring. I figured in the long run it would be better, for relatively the same price. Both are CCA but oh well.
As far as the box goes, I thinking about getting a box of Amazon. $38 bucks for a 0.95 cu ft enclosure for a 10". Not too shabby.
Between buying everything for the box, and carpeting it, etc I think that it is better to just buy it.
So does the 4runner have an aftermarket HU and the T100 not? That could be a large part of your problem. I could be wrong but the stock HU could be a lot less than an aftermarket, RMS wise. Yes, aftermarket is only 22 or so, but maybe the stock is 8. Which would be why you would be getting suck crap overall SQ in the T100 and not the 4runner.
BrianSD_42
New member
Running Infinity Reference speakers off an aftermarket head unit is a bad idea. Sorry but those "22 watts" are not going to be sufficient. I used to run those exact same speakers off an Alpine head unit but it at least had a V-Drive amp with 27 W RMS. Once I made the upgrade the speakers sounded much better.
tbst
New member
Not sure if you meant me or him. I agree wholeheartedly if me. Those Polks sound better but still sound like crap (22 RMS from the Kenwood I have).
Just when I get all my stuff it is probably going to snow here. And not New England snow. ****ty sleety stuff. Stuff you break both your ankles and a leg at one time stuff.
Ordered that 14 gauge speaker wire, the Y cables, another RCA cable and some banana clips for the subwoofer.
All that I need to order now is the subwoofer box.
Hopefully this week I will start the installation.
The T100 has the classic 50x4 cheap head. I took the doors apart and discovered someone took some shortcuts sealing up the sucky part around the door locks. I'm working on that now. The tweeter part is angled so I'm angling that forward instead of up, hoping to mellow them out a bit. I got one side done and the bass seemed more well rounded and seemed to clip a lot less than the other side when I got it done. :uzi:
I'm just taking a little break from listening to the neighbors outside yelling at each other. But, things are looking up.
I've got more stuff in the mail, I'm gonna try out a jbl gto 8" sub because the reviews were really good, the required box is really small and it is $55. Also scored a cheap jbl amp on the auction site. I'm pretty much below the walmart price range. Peel'n seal has been a significant hit to the budget.
tbst
New member
Yeah, at MAX. Much lower RMS, I am sure.
My favorite. They never realize how annoying it is.
Same here with stuff in the mail. However, before you know it you have spent way over any "budget". The little stuff adds up. There is no reason 4 gauge spade terminals need to be $7 for two.
Edead is a good alternative for the future. About $1 per sq ft. I haven't pulled the trigger because I can't justify being anymore over budget.
tbst
New member
brianemc2_42, I have done some thinking about the components that I have. Returning them to amazon if always an option. I have found some Infinity Kappas 60.9cs on Amazon for $125 or $10 more than the GF paid for the Polks for Xmas.
The reviews I have been read have either been excellent, or as mentioned in this thread, have been that they are bright. Have you experienced this?
I have considered this for two reasons. First, the outstanding reviews of the Kappas (minus them being bright). Next, it adds makes my "system" expandable in the future, as I can add rear speakers and have 75 RMS to all speakers, rather than 50 RMS.
I know you cannot hear the Polks so it's hard to tell. However, if you really are that impressed by the Kappas... Returning the Polks would seem reasonable.
Also, there was some mention that depth was an issue, for the tweeter and woofer, however I have not read anything here about that.
Thanks for your help so far!
The reviews I have been read have either been excellent, or as mentioned in this thread, have been that they are bright. Have you experienced this?
I have considered this for two reasons. First, the outstanding reviews of the Kappas (minus them being bright). Next, it adds makes my "system" expandable in the future, as I can add rear speakers and have 75 RMS to all speakers, rather than 50 RMS.
I know you cannot hear the Polks so it's hard to tell. However, if you really are that impressed by the Kappas... Returning the Polks would seem reasonable.
Also, there was some mention that depth was an issue, for the tweeter and woofer, however I have not read anything here about that.
Thanks for your help so far!
