What do you guys think of the new Hummer? Electric rigs in general?
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4runner2021
New member
I love it and the innovation it brings. Although a $112K price tag makes it a bit out of my price range...
Myrunr2010
New member
We’ve been watching “long way up” and they support crews have been using Rivian pickups, which are very much prototypes, but I’ve gained a new respect for them.
TheDurk
Elite Member
This.
Imagine the awesomeness of being able to dial each of four wheels from 0 to 100% power according to the situation. diagonally opposite, three of four, whatever you want. Even left side forward, right side back. I doubt this Hummer does that, but it would be easily in reach of the technology.
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St Runner
Member
Not only will you be able to dial the power to each wheel, but without a central engine and drivetrain, the suspension can be aligned vertically with a lot less limitations for height. All theoretical now but once they are committed the auto industry will put out some awesome offroad vehicles. The military is already heading in that direction
MAST4R
New member
I agree. While the Hummer specifically is far too expensive and while GM seems to be throwing whatever at the wall in the hope something sticks, the tech is proving itself thanks to Tesla. Hopefully Rivian/Ford will pull it off as well. It is exceptionally hard to imitate what Tesla has done down to writing their own software and building their own robots. I don't know if Tesla will really move upstream in lithium production, but as is, they are already the Ford T of today. For Ford, it means going back to their roots of vertical integration. At least Ford has proven they can survive tough challenges on their own.
Whatever the Cybertruck looks like, it will be a blast to drive on and off-road. Sure, too big for far too many trails to be of interest to me, but in open spaces, watch out. A mid-size Tesla truck would be very appealing to me in the 2030s once the new tech is proven enough for remote offroad use. Not that I would ever sell the 4R, but I would add a Tesla truck one day.
As for generic gas vehicles that get us around town and between major towns, I think it is starting to be dangerous to buy new ones, especially from manufacturers that already have bad resale values.
I am not sure when it will happen (who could know for sure?) but when it does, the falling off a cliff in the resale value of generic gas vehicles will likely be spectacular. Wranglers, Toyota trucks, WRXs, etc will last longer, in my opinion. But basic transportation vehicles? I don't think the gas ones have more than a decade left on economic basis alone.
And by generic, I even mean some of the best all-around gas vehicles. Think about this. For a long time, I was a poster child for Subarus. I laughed at Tesla for too long. I failed to look hard enough and see the scope and depth of what is happening. Recently, one of my closest friends was shocked when I argued that he should buy a Model Y instead of an XT Outback. The reality is that the Outback you want today (the turbo version) is not cheaper enough to justify itself vs a Model Y. And I have more faith in Tesla batteries now than I do in Subaru CVT.
Here is why electric pure plays can capture nearly everyone's excitement:
--clean;
--much less maintenance/fewer parts to break;
--exceptional road performance at a price that many can afford now;
It is enough that you care for just one of the above three, to make the switch.
The wild card is autonomous vehicles. I am not sold that these would be everywhere in just 5 years, but once autonomous vehicles do become a thing, the economics of gas ones will absolutely collapse (since gas ones cannot compete with electrics when used as much as autonomous ones will be).
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Devbot
New member
Long story short, dead on arrival. Whole lotta complex gimmicks that I'm sure not many people trust GM to get right, considering they can barely make a normal running car.
99% of the reason we've seen so many EVs in the past 2 years alone is because Tesla can't be bought out, but they can certainly be drowned out.
I have a strong stance against EVs but I do like Rimac. Very cool company and people. Acquiring Bugatti would be a huge power move for them, if the deal goes through.
99% of the reason we've seen so many EVs in the past 2 years alone is because Tesla can't be bought out, but they can certainly be drowned out.
I have a strong stance against EVs but I do like Rimac. Very cool company and people. Acquiring Bugatti would be a huge power move for them, if the deal goes through.
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pluton
Senior Member
I think this $100,000 plus vehicle is analogous to the first digital cameras: They cost $23,000 and only the large press agencies and major publishers could afford them. Now they're common and relatively cheap.
I'd guess it'll be about 10 years before they (electric 4WDs) become commonplace and normally priced.
I'd guess it'll be about 10 years before they (electric 4WDs) become commonplace and normally priced.
diverscale
Member
I love my internal combustion engine and what freedom it brings. If people want battery cars, good for me, but I'll settle with my gasoline trucks for the foreseeable future. Like the sound, they heat it procures for free during the winter, love everything about it.
I do lots of road long road trips, also sleep in the car pretty often, and I like to keep my vehicles for very long. A battery will chemically degrade over time, nothing you can do about that. My 400 000 KM 4runner still has the same autonomy as new.
Hope Toyota will leave the choice to the buyer whether they want gas, hybrid or battery. Freedom of choice is also important.
As for a battery Hummer, I personally thing it's a travesty. Could have kept that for another model, not for the icon which is the hummer.
I do lots of road long road trips, also sleep in the car pretty often, and I like to keep my vehicles for very long. A battery will chemically degrade over time, nothing you can do about that. My 400 000 KM 4runner still has the same autonomy as new.
Hope Toyota will leave the choice to the buyer whether they want gas, hybrid or battery. Freedom of choice is also important.
As for a battery Hummer, I personally thing it's a travesty. Could have kept that for another model, not for the icon which is the hummer.
04rnr
New member
I personally know lots of people that could afford it, my guess they will sell out out fast.
I agree it is the future but I won't even consider one until they've proven themselves as rugged long lasting machines. Especially at such a premium price point.
That being said, they COMPLETELY lost me at the 24 wirelessly monitored liquid cooled/heated batteries under the passenger compartment.
That being said, they COMPLETELY lost me at the 24 wirelessly monitored liquid cooled/heated batteries under the passenger compartment.
jross20
New member
Malcolm99
Member
Until these batteries last 20years/300,000mi without losing efficiency and can push a 4x4 4Runner type vehicle down the road for 400miles non stop, and work in cold weather (heating the batteries) heating my windshield and arse, again without sacrificing tooo much efficiency I'm all in. But when I hear about the cold weather issues, replacement battery availability, replacement battery cost, extraction/mining processes(regional environmental enforcement non existent in many cases) battery manufacturing and disposal(again regional Eviro enforcement questionable) and efficiency loss every year of ownership due to battery degradation, not including the initial cost of ownership I'm out until they get it worked out so that it is actually "green" to drive the electric vehicle. Oddly enough I was just listening to some guy on the news with a 2nd hand Nissan Leaf, needs a new battery due to loss of range and age, think his was 6 years old(warranty is 94months 100,000mi), can't find a replacement battery, and if he wants 62kWh batteries it would run him $15,000 in Canada and it was suggested that he dispose of the car and get a new one at that cost, again not very "green", I'm all for electric cars and majored as an Environmental Technician -protection and compliance, but the technology just isn't there. A side note, Teslas door handles don't work to good in snowy freezing conditions, and I was told to take a better look at the fit and finish and products used to make it, but time will tell how they hold up I guess. Perhaps EV's are best left for use in the Southern Hemisphere or congested cities where trips are short and plugins are plentiful, and those in Cold climates can enjoy our efficient long lasting self heating petrol engines than can be filled up in 4 minutes and go another 400mi, imagine what the wait times at the charging stations would be like lol, and I didn't even touch on the infrastructure needed and is the charge going to be free while out and about? Or is the Government going to cover that cost with our tax dollars like they are doing to cover the costs of infrastructure they are installing to promote this "green" EV lol, Again I'm all for EV's when the technology is ready to make it actually green.
Edit: it should be noted that Tesla sued the Ontario Canada Gov for backing out of rebates of up to $14,000 for the purchase of Tesla's, so perhaps my opinion is bias, but to be honest rich people buying 50-60k CAD$ cars can pay for it themselves without tax rebates and reduction of plate and sticker cost/renewal, I realize it's an incentive to promote change but I think they can afford if they want, and in the mean time tax payers are funding the infrastructure aswell.
Edit: it should be noted that Tesla sued the Ontario Canada Gov for backing out of rebates of up to $14,000 for the purchase of Tesla's, so perhaps my opinion is bias, but to be honest rich people buying 50-60k CAD$ cars can pay for it themselves without tax rebates and reduction of plate and sticker cost/renewal, I realize it's an incentive to promote change but I think they can afford if they want, and in the mean time tax payers are funding the infrastructure aswell.
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Devbot
New member
^^^ Amen. The "green" factor is 100% a façade and outright lie. They point their finger at you for using fossil fuels, you point your finger back for them supporting foreign strip mining (an industry that is by no means green and commonly coupled with deforestation, workers/human rights issues, heavily reliant on shipping freight, etc), and suddenly it's all shrugs and shoulders. But "gasoline bad, electricity good."
At a point I feel like it's almost a fad, and will give way for something like propane powered cars.
At a point I feel like it's almost a fad, and will give way for something like propane powered cars.
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Malcolm99
Member
^^ agreed, NAT Gas or Propane would be better and more inline with existing vehicles and existing infrastructure. But even the petrol engines are leaps and bounds advanced in reduction of emissions, I'm sure the fuel burnt to extract the materials to build the EV batteries and then ship it across the ocean and then recycle and replace the Batteries over there short lifespan add up to the same environmental emissions or more and a larger environmental footprint/impact as the existing petrol vehicle, but I'll admit I'm guessing, but it's not adding up IMO.
And let's not forget the cost to tax payers for all of this, it rises the cost of living, and in Canada we extract natural resources to make money, so guess what, We'll have to extract more resources, or raise the costs of those resources and work a little harder, and it will roll down down hill for everyone from there, raising the costs of everything.
And let's not forget the cost to tax payers for all of this, it rises the cost of living, and in Canada we extract natural resources to make money, so guess what, We'll have to extract more resources, or raise the costs of those resources and work a little harder, and it will roll down down hill for everyone from there, raising the costs of everything.
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I think the new hummer has a lot of new technologies that GM is trying to develop and test out. I'm glad they chose to do it on a rich person's vehicle who most likely has other vehicles if this one fails or needs to be at the dealership for a long period of time. New technology is necessary to develop the electric vehicles to bridge the gap between internal combustion engines availability and range anxiety in order to bring them more into the common marketplace.
As far as electric vehicles in general, I approve of trying to develop a greener transportation. Unfortunately the electric vehicle market is in a catch 22. The charging network isn't as vast as gas stations so most people aren't buying an electric car which in turn slows the development of the charging network. Electric cars aren't feasible in my opinion where the electric grid is already stressed to the point of blackouts and greyouts. Those areas need the entire electric network/grid upgraded before even considering a charging network that the electric network/grid can handle in addition to the normal electrical loads like summer HVAC electrical use.
As far as electric vehicles in general, I approve of trying to develop a greener transportation. Unfortunately the electric vehicle market is in a catch 22. The charging network isn't as vast as gas stations so most people aren't buying an electric car which in turn slows the development of the charging network. Electric cars aren't feasible in my opinion where the electric grid is already stressed to the point of blackouts and greyouts. Those areas need the entire electric network/grid upgraded before even considering a charging network that the electric network/grid can handle in addition to the normal electrical loads like summer HVAC electrical use.
