His problem with that law would be that the dealer he bought it from didn't know of the problem. The dealer would have to prove that the person that traded it in knew that there was a defect. Even that would be a challenge to prove that it substantially impairs the use because it runs fine.
What do you mean it has a leak in the head gasket??!!
- Thread starter run4estrunner
- Start date
His problem with that law would be that the dealer he bought it from didn't know of the problem. The dealer would have to prove that the person that traded it in knew that there was a defect. Even that would be a challenge to prove that it substantially impairs the use because it runs fine.
run4estrunner
New member
its actually really easy for me to prove that the person that traded in the car knew about it. I spoke with the toyota service department that did the diagnosis and they quoted the customer 3800 and the customer declined. Thats when he went and traded it in 300 miles later. Its still a mystery how it is running good now. I also may be able to see the smog report and argue that the honda dealer knew something was unusual based on the HC output being high and the CO2 output being below 14.5%
run4estrunner
New member
Ya i was thinking that, but they must have flushed whatever sealer they used very well because there are no signs. Anyways... looks like i will be ordering a used engine here and doing a swap to cut the down time of sending out the heads and everything. At least i will get a lower mileage engine out of it.
Before you go spending lots of cash you might try calling Toyota Corporate (not the dealer) and explain the situation to them. I think I've read of other people getting this repaired for free even after the warranty period has expired. Register the VIN on the Toyota owners website to see if it has a good Toyota service history - that will help your case if it does.
YotaDriver
New member
Sorry you're having to deal with this so soon after buying a new (to you) car.
I read your post last night about the transmission slipping when you were going up a slight incline on the highway and actually wondered if it might not have anything to do with the transmission at all. Looks like this thread might be confirmation of that.
I've heard that you can get hesitation and a slipping sensation when you're losing compression from a blown gasket. Can anyone confirm that the symptoms described in the previous threat (http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/114420-transmission-slipping-od.html) could be related to this new issue?
I read your post last night about the transmission slipping when you were going up a slight incline on the highway and actually wondered if it might not have anything to do with the transmission at all. Looks like this thread might be confirmation of that.
I've heard that you can get hesitation and a slipping sensation when you're losing compression from a blown gasket. Can anyone confirm that the symptoms described in the previous threat (http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/114420-transmission-slipping-od.html) could be related to this new issue?
Aquabear
New member
Just my 5 cents but my Toy dlershp fixed my head gasket under warranty(co cost). It is a common (not huge) problem but easily fixed. Now, I have 75k on her but at 120K, I don't know if you have much room to fight on. It would really depend on your state. I don't think states as a whole would give too much recourse for you at a vehicle with 120K- Toyota or not thats a lot of mileage and mainly considered an old car.
Either there's a return law in your state or you'll have to fix her on your dime. But remember you did buy a toyota so chances are even if you ahev to fix the gasket yourself you do have a car with a LONG history of lasting 200-300 miles. So don't hate her becasue she's a little sick, she could bring you years of joy.
I will not flame war this dealership thou and post with calm, especially when we are here trying to give 99% good solid advice.
Either there's a return law in your state or you'll have to fix her on your dime. But remember you did buy a toyota so chances are even if you ahev to fix the gasket yourself you do have a car with a LONG history of lasting 200-300 miles. So don't hate her becasue she's a little sick, she could bring you years of joy.
I will not flame war this dealership thou and post with calm, especially when we are here trying to give 99% good solid advice.
Ti-Ben
New member
Be proactive!!
Send an official letter to the dealership saying how much you claim for the repair (get a quote) and you need to leave them the chance to repair it. Write in the letter that you want an answer within 10 days or else you sue them to the amount of the repair. Offer the choice between paying the amount or to cancel the sale. Maybe just the letter will force them to do something if they feel they can lose in court, but...
You're not gonna get anywhere by calling and asking for money. They deal with this all the time and won't do anything unless you bring them to court. And if you do the repair yourself without a quote or an inspection report from a recognize shop, you won't be able to prove it in court.
That sucks, but it's the price to pay when you trust people. Now you're the only one that knows if you prefer to deal with this pain (may take 2 years to have an appointment in court) or get it repaired and go on with your life.
Send an official letter to the dealership saying how much you claim for the repair (get a quote) and you need to leave them the chance to repair it. Write in the letter that you want an answer within 10 days or else you sue them to the amount of the repair. Offer the choice between paying the amount or to cancel the sale. Maybe just the letter will force them to do something if they feel they can lose in court, but...
You're not gonna get anywhere by calling and asking for money. They deal with this all the time and won't do anything unless you bring them to court. And if you do the repair yourself without a quote or an inspection report from a recognize shop, you won't be able to prove it in court.
That sucks, but it's the price to pay when you trust people. Now you're the only one that knows if you prefer to deal with this pain (may take 2 years to have an appointment in court) or get it repaired and go on with your life.
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run4estrunner
New member
Ya, you are totally correct. I spoke with my roommate about it and it very well could have been a slight misfire causing that at cruising speed. I tried to repeat the symptom to see if my rpm's jump down or stays constant but i couldnt get it to do it again yesterday. Its more than likely the engine misfiring now that i found out this new info.
run4estrunner
New member
Ya thank you, that is great advice. I am currently working with the general manager that oversees several dealerships in the area to come up with something. He is being a lot nicer than the sales manager i spoke with yesterday. He admits that he doesn't like doing business that way and will work with me. Lets hope for the best. He also told me that the toyota dealership that diagnosed it was their sister store, so how did they not catch this? I guess thats what happens when all they care about is profit and a quick turn around.
You are being a bit unrealistic in your assumptions. There is no way that the Honda dealer you bought it from could have possibly known that a totally different dealership from a different manufacturer had diagnosed the fault. That is absurd. It isn't like there is some magical database that stores all the information about your vehicle. You seem to not want to take responsibility for your poor choice and want to blame someone else. The fault is your own and the mechanic you took it too. If I were you, that is exactly what I would say to the dealer you bought it from and hope for the best because that dealership owes you nothing. I feel bad that you made a bad choice, but the fact that you don’t want to take responsibility seems very American of you.
run4estrunner
New member
Actually looking at their smog report the vehicle barely passed smog, had a low CO2 at under 14% and high HC, which is tell tail signs of a leaking head gasket. When i purchased the vehicle i was assured by the sales that the vehicle passed smog well below the legal limits and i requested the smog paperwork which they werent able to give me that day since it was a sunday and the service center was closed. I was assured that if there was anything reletively wrong with the vehicle that would cause the smog to barely pass that they wouldn't put the car on their lot and instead be taken to an auction. They overlooked this issue and sold it. What is cool is that i have been speaking with the BAR and the BBB about the issue and they both are telling me that since it was a pre-existing issue this drastic that i have some protection and will be "taken care of" according to the BAR. Cool stuff huh?? You should try to know what you are talking about before you decide to stick your nose in something you have no idea about and attempt to insult someone. :moon:
YotaDriver
New member
It doesn't sound like you read the OP's previous post very carefully, because he clearly stated that the Toyota dealership that initially diagnosed the blown head gasket was the sister dealership of the Honda dealership that eventually sold the impaired vehicle to the OP. As such, it's actually a safe bet that they not only could have known, they should have known and most likely did know.
Also, the crack about not wanting to take responsibility for a "bad choice" is ****ish, to say the least, and smacks of a Tea Party-like detachment from reality. The OP shouldn't be on the hook to perform a major repair like this so soon after purchasing a vehicle, regardless of whether or not it was sold as-is. The dealership - and remember, this is a Honda dealership not some fly-by-night used car lot - sold a substandard vehicle and should stand behind their product. Fortunately it sounds like they are.
As for everyone jumping down the OP's throat for asking people to pan this dealership, go read Jalopnik once in a while and you'll see that this is a common tactic people use these days. When a dealership is found to be screwing someone over, people band together and are often able to change the behavior based solely on the negative press the dealership is getting through the Internet.
run4estrunner
New member
:cheers: Thanks man
and as for you Sungod... you better make sure that you research everything before any time you write on this forum because i will jump down your throat at every stupid thing you say and every chance i get. :50cal:
Hapeacres
New member
All I know is that if I paid 10,000 (dont really know how much you paid) from a legitimate Honda dealer and a month later I find that the truck was sold to me with a blown head gasket, I would be totally pissed. Who wouldn't? I have no idea why a lot of you are jumping on the OP and blaming him. Not every person is going to find out every single problem with a truck they buy. Thats why Honda has the responsibility here as the seller. They may not have known either but now that they do, its in their hands to do the right thing. He only had the car 30 days and has proof that the issue happened before Honda sold it to him. He actually has a lot going for him now that there is a relationship between the two dealers. First off, I would only deal with ONE PERSON, that person being the MOST RESPONSIBLE OFFICIAL from the dealer you purchased it from. Funny how the salesman is a completely different person (a-hole) after there is a problem. Sounds like you are going in the right direction. Get the repair quote, be calm and collect, and deal ONLY with the President. Tell them the whole story in a tactful way and add how you have been saving for a long time with the family savings, etc, etc, and trusted Honda when purchasing a vehicle. All you are asking in return is to be FAIR and repair the problem. Maybe I am being a bit optimistic here, but I would suspect that they will take care of it and all will be fine. Good Luck. I do know that Honda knew all along about their faulty torque converters in thousands of 03 and 04 Pilots (ask me how I know!) and dismissed most of these (unless under warranty and complained like hell), even making money off their own repairs by putting in the same rebuilt faulty cores. Shame on them for that.
1. I hope they help you.
2. You don't have much of a legal claim, so be nice to them. You know what they say, kill them with kindness. Go the nice angle, help me out.
If you push they may just say screw it. I may be wrong, but I thought I read you were in Cali and I took a look at their lemon and used vehicle protection. Used vehicles don't have much protection, in particular when you buy "as-is". That sucks, it does, but you don't have any legal protection as far as I can tell.
2. You don't have much of a legal claim, so be nice to them. You know what they say, kill them with kindness. Go the nice angle, help me out.
If you push they may just say screw it. I may be wrong, but I thought I read you were in Cali and I took a look at their lemon and used vehicle protection. Used vehicles don't have much protection, in particular when you buy "as-is". That sucks, it does, but you don't have any legal protection as far as I can tell.
run4estrunner
New member
Thanks :cheers: Im glad this thread is taking a better turn, it was going in a really irrational direction there for a second.
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run4estrunner
New member
Oh and Sungod... a little off topic but i was hoping you would go check out a thread that you posted on about a stereo install. It was pretty embarrassing what you wrote. I am really hoping that you drive around now with a fender mounted antenna... haha:hatsoff:
bergs
New member
I really hope this dealer tells you to pound sand because with your approach to the members here so far, that would simply be hilarious!
LOL
