What to do about UCAs and UCA "stuff"?

[ShooterMcGavin]

I'm trying to figure out if aftermarket UCAs are worth it for me. Money will be getting tight soon. I know of some of the advantages, like better tire clearance and better droop angles, but are they worth it for me if I don't need those things? I have lots of questions...

My 4Runner has 270,000 miles. Let's assume that the UBJs are crap. Let's also assume that the UCA bushings are crap. I have 3+" of lift in front and I'm running 265|75R16. I plan to, one day, mount up 255|85R16s. I could be steered down the road of 285s though.

1. If the above assumptions are true, how am I suffering? Is handling suffering? Safety/control? ...or is it superficial, as in ride quality and handling feel?

2. If I want to replace the worn parts with new UBJs and polyurethane bushings, what will it cost me in parts? Now, add in labor costs for bushings that need to be pressed out/in? Should I even tackle UBJ replacements, assuming that I would rent the C-clamp press?

3. If I buy aftermarket UCAs, do I need to add in the extra cost of UBJs, bushings, or other stuff?

4. Compared to #2 above, what would it cost me to replace the UCAs with a decent aftermarket set, plus UBJs, bushings, and other things that I would need to include?

5. In replacing the UBJs, do I have a large choice, for which I need to do lots of research? I have heard of Uni-ball, but I don't know the difference.

Teach me, oh wise UCA gurus

P.S. I'm confident that my LCA bushings are crap too, with the mileage.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

My 4Runner has 270,000 miles. Let's assume that the UBJs are crap. Let's also assume that the UCA bushings are crap. I have 3+" of lift in front and I'm running 265|75R16. I plan to, one day, mount up 255|85R16s. I could be steered down the road of 285s though.

1. If the above assumptions are true, how am I suffering? Is handling suffering? Safety/control? ...or is it superficial, as in ride quality and handling feel?

You lose steering return ability and can have general wheel instability. With a 3" lift it may or may not be noticeable. I can guarantee your caster is out of spec with a 3" lift.

2. If I want to replace the worn parts with new UBJs and polyurethane bushings, what will it cost me in parts? Now, add in labor costs for bushings that need to be pressed out/in? Should I even tackle UBJ replacements, assuming that I would rent the C-clamp press?

I've heard the poly bushings can squeak. I'm a firm believer in OEM, mainly because if they can last over 200K miles they must be doing something right. OEM will cost more but since they last so long, in the end, they are worth it.
You shouldn't have to "rent" anything. Most of the auto parts stores have loaner tools that you "buy" then return.

3. If I buy aftermarket UCAs, do I need to add in the extra cost of UBJs, bushings, or other stuff?

After market UCAs include bushings and UBJ or uni ball

4. Compared to #2 above, what would it cost me to replace the UCAs with a decent aftermarket set, plus UBJs, bushings, and other things that I would need to include?

Depending on the Aftermarket UCA you choose, new UCAs would either be about the same price or considerably more expensive (some UCAs cost in excess of $800)

5. In replacing the UBJs, do I have a large choice, for which I need to do lots of research? I have heard of Uni-ball, but I don't know the difference.

The UBJs that come with the LR UCAs (I have these) are said to have quality issues. I don't Offroad that much or too hard so I hope they hold up. When I removed a pair of OEM UBJs with 175K miles, I swear they would last 175K more.
The uniball setup is said to need some maintenance, like cleaning and lubrication but is very reliable and allows much more articulation if you need it.

P.S. I'm confident that my LCA bushings are crap too, with the mileage.[/

You'd be surprised how well they hold up. I only replaced mine (with OEM) because I had a couple frozen adjustment cams

I hope this helps a little.

 

[kolelt]

I got rid of my stock uca. And went with uniball the bushkng do sqeek but I don't care. I can allignt my wheels with in specs with the lift. I have tire clearance, easy to change the uniball, and strong as hell

 

[OrangeChicken123]

3. If I buy aftermarket UCAs, do I need to add in the extra cost of UBJs, bushings, or other stuff?

UCA's should come with all that stuff and from what i've read SPC light racing ucas are really popular HERE

$400 for ucas then maybe $100 for labor to take out your ubj then put in the metal bushing thingy that comes with the spc's, to save some money you should at least attempt to take the ubj off yourself its pretty easy took me less than 5 seconds.... after 3 days of fighting them. all i used was 1.grinder 2.ball joint press from oreilys 3.impact gun, then i had a shop put the metal bushing thingy that came with my spc's in for $40 bucks (don't know what anythings called, i just do stuff) and all they did was wack it in with a hammer, took them about 5 minutes for both, but then again they had like 4 guys on it. (i watched them)

 

[JayRolla]

I had a new OEM ball joint loosen up on me. I also wanted more caster to clear tires when flexing. I went with spc lr UCAS and love them. It's but uni ball but is a booted joint which is nice.

 

[Taylor20]

The UBJs that come with the LR UCAs (I have these) are said to have quality issues.

Where have you heard this?

 

[MStudt]

Where have you heard this?

Search is your friend. They fail, and it can be bad! Just another ball joint failure to worry about.

If you're worried about squeaking uni-balls then keep them cleaned, and oil them with Tri-Flow lubricant. Go for All Pro UCA's in my opinion! Delrin bushings would be the best, but most companies are going to use poly since it's cheap. You can get replacement Delrin bushings from Down South Motorsports.

 

[fourfive]

I'm trying to figure out if aftermarket UCAs are worth it for me. Money will be getting tight soon. I know of some of the advantages, like better tire clearance and better droop angles, but are they worth it for me if I don't need those things?

I'm definitely still happy with my LR UCA and would buy them again if I got another 3rd gen. That being said, based on the reviews I've read on the other UCAs out there, I think I would have been just as satisfied if I went with another brand. The only reason I was in the market for aftermarket UCAs was to get my alignment closer to spec & it just happened to be that the LR were cheaper. If your alignment is close to factory specs, you're not having any tire clearance issues, and the UCA seem to be in decent shape, might as well hold out & save your dough & avoid an impulse buy.

Edit: I've only had mine on since Jan 2015 and only do "on road" driving since my 4runner has become my DD so I can't really speak on durability at this time.

 

[Supermoney]

I considered them, mainly for alignment purposes to get within spec / more clearance.

 

[cashmoney]

Search is your friend. They fail, and it can be bad! Just another ball joint failure to worry about.

If you're worried about squeaking uni-balls then keep them cleaned, and oil them with Tri-Flow lubricant. Go for All Pro UCA's in my opinion! Delrin bushings would be the best, but most companies are going to use poly since it's cheap. You can get replacement Delrin bushings from Down South Motorsports.

Seems those problems were from a few years ago. Haven't found a thread newer than 2013 yet regarding issues with the LR arms.

 

[MStudt]

Seems those problems were from a few years ago. Haven't found a thread newer than 2013 yet regarding issues with the LR arms.

I'd rather not purchase a product with a known history of failure. There's already one ball joint to worry. Why make it two?

You can also buy some el-cheapo UCA's off eBay for $250.

 

[JayRolla]

I'd rather not purchase a product with a known history of failure. There's already one ball joint to worry. Why make it two?

You can also buy some el-cheapo UCA's off eBay for $250.

LR is in Fort Collins. They make custom UCA's for tons of different vehicles. They do awesome work, have some of the best customer service and always fix there issues. They engineer there own stuff and have actually made product per customers input. Saying that they have fixed that issue and a shop near me says they install them on rigs regularly and love them for alignment problems.

Toyota ball joints fail. Trans fails, brakes warp. My new upper failed and my buddys new lower failed. So why would you buy a toyota with its known history of failure? Ive built many vehicles and ZERO have had this type of ball joint failure. At least LR has fixed the issue.

 

[cashmoney]

So wait. You'd rather buy some sort of unknown el-cheapo one from ebay that no one has experience with than one that hasn't had a reported failure in 2 years and gone through multiple revisions and been successfully run by multiple folks on this forum and other forums? You do realize that almost every vehicle on the road runs two ball joints with great success? I've run SPC arms for years on my cars with no failures. Guess we'll just agree to disagree on this but that's the great thing about America

 

[snivilous]

Search is your friend. They fail, and it can be bad! Just another ball joint failure to worry about.

I always laugh at people bashing ball joints. There is no inherent issue with a ball joint. They are plenty strong and have a good deflection angle and are a highly used part, what do you expect after 100k miles? Show me a uniball that's been put through the same use for 100k miles and show me how it is. Which by the way a uniball and ball joint will fail in the same fashion, being worn down and popping out--again, not a design flaw but merely the joint wearing down from a lot of use.

I'm sure uniballs are stronger, but considering most LT kits don't even use uniball lowers (which by the way the lower arm takes about 3x the loading of the upper arm) leads me to think that most people, especially with stock width suspension won't benefit at all from the strength increase of uniball anything. Not trying to be a dick, but everyone hates on ball joints when really there is nothing wrong with them if they are maintained and inspected just like any other component.

 

[JayRolla]

I always laugh at people bashing ball joints. There is no inherent issue with a ball joint. They are plenty strong and have a good deflection angle and are a highly used part, what do you expect after 100k miles? Show me a uniball that's been put through the same use for 100k miles and show me how it is. Which by the way a uniball and ball joint will fail in the same fashion, being worn down and popping out--again, not a design flaw but merely the joint wearing down from a lot of use.

I'm sure uniballs are stronger, but considering most LT kits don't even use uniball lowers (which by the way the lower arm takes about 3x the loading of the upper arm) leads me to think that most people, especially with stock width suspension won't benefit at all from the strength increase of uniball anything. Not trying to be a dick, but everyone hates on ball joints when really there is nothing wrong with them if they are maintained and inspected just like any other component.

Well if he starts making his own and selling them than I understand why bash the ball joint types. LOL.

 

[cashmoney]

Well if he starts making his own and selling them than I understand why bash the ball joint types. LOL.

He's doing rear upper and lower control arms in his defense. Not front.

***Sales now available***

I'm now making REAR control arms for our 4runners. The control arms I'm making are UCA's and LCA's for the rear. I'm also selling pan-hard bars to get with these. There are a few options that you have to chose from. All items can be purchased individually, or in a package deal to save money.

 

[MStudt]

I always laugh at people bashing ball joints. There is no inherent issue with a ball joint. They are plenty strong and have a good deflection angle and are a highly used part, what do you expect after 100k miles? Show me a uniball that's been put through the same use for 100k miles and show me how it is. Which by the way a uniball and ball joint will fail in the same fashion, being worn down and popping out--again, not a design flaw but merely the joint wearing down from a lot of use.

I'm sure uniballs are stronger, but considering most LT kits don't even use uniball lowers (which by the way the lower arm takes about 3x the loading of the upper arm) leads me to think that most people, especially with stock width suspension won't benefit at all from the strength increase of uniball anything. Not trying to be a dick, but everyone hates on ball joints when really there is nothing wrong with them if they are maintained and inspected just like any other component.

My understanding is that this wasn't an issue of being worn down. The tapered stud is where the problem was, not with the joint itself. The stud was shearing off, and I'm never heard of a grade 8 bolt being used on a uni-ball doing this. I'm not trying to start anything here, just pointing out the simple facts. Staying away from something with a known failure is a good piece of mind (at least for me). Everything breaks, and it could be something as simple as lack of maintenance. Uni-balls are inherently stronger just due to the materials. The upper ball joints are cast where the uni-balls are chromoly.

Well if he starts making his own and selling them than I understand why bash the ball joint types. LOL.

Still working on this, but not sure which direction I'll go. It's going to be down the road some. Need to focus on my roof racks now.

He's doing rear upper and lower control arms in his defense. Not front.

You haven't been around long enough. I'm going to start making UCA's and LCA's for the front as well. Might still be about 4 months out though.

 

[JayRolla]

My understanding is that this wasn't an issue of being worn down. The tapered stud is where the problem was, not with the joint itself. The stud was shearing off, and I'm never heard of a grade 8 bolt being used on a uni-ball doing this. I'm not trying to start anything here, just pointing out the simple facts. Staying away from something with a known failure is a good piece of mind (at least for me). Everything breaks, and it could be something as simple as lack of maintenance.

Your correct, the issue has been fixed and have not heard of a fail since. They replaced everyones older joints with new ones for free. I love my LR (SPC) and will recommend them to anyone. All parts are replaceable also so wear is not an issue. Price cant be beat. Its not the best idea to bash other companys when you are starting out. What happens if you have a failure? End of the world, crap part. No its not, you fix the issue and give good customer service. I dont think any part is fail proof.

 

[cashmoney]

I'd be interested in running a set if for nothing else than supporting a member. I'm still a ways out from ordering so it might work out nicely. I'm not supportive of any type either way. Just looking out for my pocket book haha.

 

[MStudt]

Your correct, the issue has been fixed and have not heard of a fail since. They replaced everyones older joints with new ones for free. I love my LR (SPC) and will recommend them to anyone. All parts are replaceable also so wear is not an issue. Price cant be beat. Its not the best idea to bash other companys when you are starting out. What happens if you have a failure? End of the world, crap part. No its not, you fix the issue and give good customer service. I dont think any part is fail proof.

Good to know that they stood behind their products, and took care of everybody. Everything will fail in time, and the more abuse they see the faster it'll happen.