What would you do?

[techjockey]

During an oil change, a local dealer indicated my 4Runner had 3mm remaining on both front and rear disk brakes. Since this is < 25% remaining brake liner, their recommendation was to replace the brakes reasonably soon. A month later I took the vehicle to a different dealership where we would be near for the day and asked them to replace the brakes front and rear. We left the vehicle there presuming they would be done with the new brakes in the afternoon. Instead we received a call that the brakes were at 4mm in front and 5mm on the rears. This represents 35% and 50% remaining and therefore the brakes were not needed on either axel - though probably soon on the fronts. The second dealer walked way from the repair stating it was not needed. How weird is that?

What would you do with respect to the original dealer? This is the same dealer that wanted me to replace the front and rear differential fluid at 75K and then when I decided not to do this unneed service on my 2006 limited, wrote "customer declined 75 service" in our electronic dealer service log.

What would you do? What should be reasonable? I'm thinking the intent or result was that I would be buying new brakes sooner with the original dealer none the wiser.

The original dealer wants to measure the brakes with me present so they can get to the bottom of this. If the brakes check out at 4 & 5mm - what should they offer?

Yes - I have paper service documents that indicate the conflicting measurements.

I feel like I've caught them red handed. Simple mistake or fraud?

 

[tranny Frank]

Matter of perception,

During an oil change, a local dealer indicated my 4Runner had 3mm remaining on both front and rear disk brakes. Since this is < 25% remaining brake liner, their recommendation was to replace the brakes reasonably soon. A month later I took the vehicle to a different dealership where we would be near for the day and asked them to replace the brakes front and rear. We left the vehicle there presuming they would be done with the new brakes in the afternoon. Instead we received a call that the brakes were at 4mm in front and 5mm on the rears. This represents 35% and 50% remaining and therefore the brakes were not needed on either axel - though probably soon on the fronts. The second dealer walked way from the repair stating it was not needed. How weird is that?

What would you do with respect to the original dealer? This is the same dealer that wanted me to replace the front and rear differential fluid at 75K and then when I decided not to do this unneed service on my 2006 limited, wrote "customer declined 75 service" in our electronic dealer service log.

What would you do? What should be reasonable? I'm thinking the intent or result was that I would be buying new brakes sooner with the original dealer none the wiser.

The original dealer wants to measure the brakes with me present so they can get to the bottom of this. If the brakes check out at 4 & 5mm - what should they offer?

Yes - I have paper service documents that indicate the conflicting measurements.

I feel like I've caught them red handed. Simple mistake or fraud?

Well tech Jockey the thing is with that is most dealerships do whats called a "Upsell" program, if your rig is in for a oil change and they find something else wrong with it, and are able to sell the job the tech gets a little cut, a "Spiff" is what they called it @ the dealership I used to work At,

Now the first dealership was just a little hungrier , questionable "Upsells" is all over the place,

Just stick with the second dealership, or better yet just get your brakes done @ a reputable little shop, ask around, find a little operation in your area, because basic brake work can be done by the shadiest of shade tree mechinican,

 

[techjockey]

Isn't mis-reporting a measurement fraud?

Upsell would be telling me I should have my air filter changed or perhaps transfer case fluid replaced when it is not needed.

Upselling might even be mis-representing when I needed to replace the spark plugs.

Fraud is making or claiming to make a measurement and then incorrectly reporting it so the resulting service is to your financial gain.

 

[Rix]

Easy, have EITHER dealership pul the wheels and show you.
One or the other will be wrong.
Having some little shop do it is fine, STAY AWAY FROM LES SCHWAB!! They'll put super0crappy raybestos calipers on it that will likely fail in a year, and the pads the use just suck.

Get factory parts and have a little shop do it, if you're going to go that way.

 

[tranny Frank]

The Run around,

Isn't mis-reporting a measurement fraud?

Upsell would be telling me I should have my air filter changed or perhaps transfer case fluid replaced when it is not needed.

Upselling might even be mis-representing when I needed to replace the spark plugs.

Fraud is making or claiming to make a measurement and then incorrectly reporting it so the resulting service is to your financial gain.

Tech Jockey, you are going to run into a bunch of finger pointing if you try to pin them down,

What they will end up doing is blaming the tech, saying he did not measure it right, make him out to be the stupid bad guy,

They do it all the time, "Lowest Form of mechanic Ignorance" is how one Corporate Toyota propagandist put it,

Even about Rix,

So sure test it out, get them to re check it, I will bet you they will come back and blame the poor grease monkey and just say he mis measured,

Happens all the time, happens with incompatible ATF in transmission services,

Always blame the poor Stupid grease monkey, like Rix, but very interesting keep @ it but thats what it will come to,
Lay full blame on the tech, throw him under the Bus,

 

[KidVermicious]

Easy, have EITHER dealership pul the wheels and show you.
One or the other will be wrong.
Having some little shop do it is fine, STAY AWAY FROM LES SCHWAB!! They'll put super0crappy raybestos calipers on it that will likely fail in a year, and the pads the use just suck.

Get factory parts and have a little shop do it, if you're going to go that way.

This makes me sad.

When I first started driving, Les Schwab was the only place to go. As long as I could remember, grandpa and dad had both gone there, and when it was my turn, I went there too. And there wasn't a single time we'd pull into the lot that somebody didn't come running out of the shop to see what we needed. We'd go stand in the waiting room and watch techs running around the bay, cranking out tires and brake jobs left and right. It was always done fast, and it was always done well.

I moved out here to SLC about 10 years ago, and they sucked. Big time. I hoped it was just a regional thing, and then Les died and I started hearing things like this from the old home turf too. And it's kinda sad. Les Schwab used to be a customer service icon. Now they're just another chain of rip-off artists.

 

[Rix]

part of the schwab thing seems to be warrantability.
They can't "warranty" something they didn't replace. So they try to replace EVERYTHING in one fell swoop. Including calipers in most cases.
The bad thing is the cheap calipers they install just seem to be junk.

Another part of the problem (as I see it) is pay. I've known a couple people that have worked at scwabby now, and neither got paid much of anything. Neither really know all that much, either. they were REQUIRED to work overtime, in a fairly hostile work environment, (different stores), a bit on the overbooked (rushed) side, with no real benefits.

I've also heard about the thing going downhill since Les died, but all I've got to go on the crap that I have to deal with that's already "been fixed at les schwab".

 

[tranny Frank]

Les Shwabs,

part of the schwab thing seems to be warrantability.
They can't "warranty" something they didn't replace. So they try to replace EVERYTHING in one fell swoop. Including calipers in most cases.
The bad thing is the cheap calipers they install just seem to be junk.

Another part of the problem (as I see it) is pay. I've known a couple people that have worked at scwabby now, and neither got paid much of anything. Neither really know all that much, either. they were REQUIRED to work overtime, in a fairly hostile work environment, (different stores), a bit on the overbooked (rushed) side, with no real benefits.

I've also heard about the thing going downhill since Les died, but all I've got to go on the crap that I have to deal with that's already "been fixed at les schwab".

Wow, well lets stay on track here cuz the shwabs bashing is not the point, Its dishonest tactics of Toyota dealerships,

Tech Jockey, follow up on this, will bet you they blame Rix for not being able to correctly measure the linings,

Because afterall what they tell him to do in the books on some things, they will turn around and call it "The lowest form of mechanic ignorance"

Keep us posted, give them hell, to much of this crap going on, makes all mechanics , techs, mechanical repair shops look Dis honest,

Hard to peg them down tho, as well as mechanix having a dishonest sterotype they also have the" Ignorant" card

Thats the one they will pull,

 

[Rix]

Wow, well lets stay on track here cuz the shwabs bashing is not the point, Its dishonest tactics of Toyota dealerships,

Tech Jockey, follow up on this, will bet you they blame Rix for not being able to correctly measure the linings,

Because afterall what they tell him to do in the books on some things, they will turn around and call it "The lowest form of mechanic ignorance"

Keep us posted, give them hell, to much of this crap going on, makes all mechanics , techs, mechanical repair shops look Dis honest,

Hard to peg them down tho, as well as mechanix having a dishonest sterotype they also have the" Ignorant" card

Thats the one they will pull,

Would you just shut up already?
You have nothing to add.
There are actually tools you can buy to accurately measure things like brake pad and Shie thickness, to give an accurate measurement. I have them.
You need to get over your crush on me, frank, and leave me out of your rediculous ramblings.

 

[tranny Frank]

I have nothing to add,

Would you just shut up already?
You have nothing to add.
There are actually tools you can buy to accurately measure things like brake pad and Shie thickness, to give an accurate measurement. I have them.
You need to get over your crush on me, frank, and leave me out of your rediculous ramblings.

Oh wow, you bust out special measuring Tools, ? @ a glance you can see if it has enough lining,

Just have to look @ it, nothing to add ?? wanna bet if tech jockey gives them more hell they come back and tell him it was the techs error,?

Thats where my money is @

Nothing to add , no I am keeping this on track, you brought up poor old swabs pointing to some other shops worse behavior to justify Toyota dealerships bad behavior

Oldest trick in the book, but dont fly, nothing to add,

 

[Rix]

Oh wow, you bust out special measuring Tools, ? @ a glance you can see if it has enough lining,

Just have to look @ it, nothing to add ?? wanna bet if tech jockey gives them more hell they come back and tell him it was the techs error,?

Thats where my money is @

Nothing to add , no I am keeping this on track, you brought up poor old swabs pointing to some other shops worse behavior to justify Toyota dealerships bad behavior

Oldest trick in the book, but dont fly, nothing to add,

And this is why you fail.
Proper measuring provides accuracy and repeatability.
GLANCING AT IT PROVIDES EXACTLY THE PROBLEM THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

As for trying to pass the blame, HARDLY.
If a tech, lube guy, whatever, looked at it, and gave the wrong measurements, it would be his/her fault now wouldn't it, frank?
You really need to get a clue, frank.

 

[tranny Frank]

Wrong measurements,

And this is why you fail.
Proper measuring provides accuracy and repeatability.
GLANCING AT IT PROVIDES EXACTLY THE PROBLEM THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

As for trying to pass the blame, HARDLY.
If a tech, lube guy, whatever, looked at it, and gave the wrong measurements, it would be his/her fault now wouldn't it, frank?
You really need to get a clue, frank.

Yep the tech lube guy looked @ it and gave the wrong measurements it would be his or her fault,

That is What Tech Jockey will find out, either dealership right or wrong, The Ignorant Card will be pulled, the tech gave the wrong info,

This is what it will come to, Tech Jockey has no recourse, no case, the tech has the Woops, gave the wrong measurements, sorry,
I am stupid, Sorry,
good thing you didnt buy the brake job, you would have wasted your $$$

But as far as glancing @ the linings it as simple as this

**** = 75 %

** = 50%

* + 25%

Do your really need precise measuring tools,, Yes Tech Jockey your brake linings are not within .0003 ,

Whatever, get out of that Dark place you call Toyota Rixxer,

 

[Rix]

No, frank it's not that simple.
If it were, this topic wouldn't exhist, now would it?
And if it were YOU, I'm sure YOU'D say "oops sorry, good thing you didn't buyt he brake job".
PROFESSIONAL shops don't work that way.
PROFESSIONAL shops will find a way to make it right.
Whether it's a monetary refund, free oil change or 3, etc.
Using tools to measure things make you accurate, frank. When everyone in the shop uses the same measuring tools, there can't be a whole lot of room for error, now can there?
This business is changing, frank. Your guesswork and glances are part of the reason why people have such a low opinion of repair shops.

 

[tranny Frank]

Bettcha,

No, frank it's not that simple.
If it were, this topic wouldn't exhist, now would it?
And if it were YOU, I'm sure YOU'D say "oops sorry, good thing you didn't buyt he brake job".
PROFESSIONAL shops don't work that way.
PROFESSIONAL shops will find a way to make it right.
Whether it's a monetary refund, free oil change or 3, etc.
Using tools to measure things make you accurate, frank. When everyone in the shop uses the same measuring tools, there can't be a whole lot of room for error, now can there?
This business is changing, frank. Your guesswork and glances are part of the reason why people have such a low opinion of repair shops.

Okay Tech Jockey, go back to the dealership and tell them your pissed they gave you the wrong measurements,
Or maybee the 2nd dealership is wrong and you do need brakes, ?

Pop the wheel off and take some pictures, This is not rocket science Rixxer, you dont need a fancy tool, a little tape measure would do the trick,

Cant be to much room for error if everybody used the same tape measure???

Whatever Rixxer, its a bloody brake pad or lining, but again I guess I am a "Master of the Obvious"

Tech jockey will get that the tech gave him the wrong info, Sorry I am a dumbass, you didnt need brakes afterall,

I cant see what is right in front of me, because I am blinded by Toyota sales,

Happens all the time on even simpler stuff than the obvious thickness of a brake pad,

You need out Rixxer

 

[Rix]

You need to wise up frank.

 

[tranny Frank]

Hey

You need to wise up frank.

Rixxer Thats my lingo, you stole it, you need to wise up, need a special measuring tool for a brake linning ?

What ? what crap ? So Tech jockey are you gonna give em hell ?

Heres a good special service tool for measuring the thickness of a brake lining, 32nds of a inch, down to, pretty cool huh ? rather a unviversal deal, Sure your all about MM

Oh well

 

[Dous]

So Gay

 

[Rix]

Can you SERIOUSLY not figure this out frank?

Or should is say "figger" this out, so you can understand it better?

 

[tranny Frank]

????

Can you SERIOUSLY not figure this out frank?

Or should is say "figger" this out, so you can understand it better?

Rixxer, I dont really think I have super special talents but I can just look @ a brake pad and tell if its less than 25%

Come on now, Sure its handy to have a little gauge but the thickness of the pad is "obvious" they have various gauges you can buy but really what part of this cant you figer out,!!!!

But anyway Tech Jockey keep us posted !!

 

[DocMT]

Isn't mis-reporting a measurement fraud?

Upsell would be telling me I should have my air filter changed or perhaps transfer case fluid replaced when it is not needed.

Upselling might even be mis-representing when I needed to replace the spark plugs.

Fraud is making or claiming to make a measurement and then incorrectly reporting it so the resulting service is to your financial gain.

You've got to be kidding about this, right? You're talking about millimeters here. What if it was an honest mistake in measuring the pads? And even if it wasn't an honest mistake, it certainly wouldn't be considered fraud. How do you know that the 2nd dealership didn't mis-measure the pad thickness?

What you should do is nothing. Just don't use the first dealer if you have no faith/trust in them. Trying to take action beyond that is futile.