When "911" Doesn't Always Come In Time
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techno
New member
For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in;
* 1.3 unintentional deaths
* 4.6 criminal homicides
* 37 suicides
In 1997 there were 15,690 homicides.
* Of these, 8,503 were committed with handguns.
* Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent) were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.23
For every time in 1997 that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone
Yeah.... guns everywhere is an awesome idea. Not.
* 1.3 unintentional deaths
* 4.6 criminal homicides
* 37 suicides
In 1997 there were 15,690 homicides.
* Of these, 8,503 were committed with handguns.
* Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent) were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.23
For every time in 1997 that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone
Yeah.... guns everywhere is an awesome idea. Not.
Thai
Elite Member
ohhh...statistics...i have some of that too...but more recent than 1997 (
):"Gun Ownership Rises to All-Time High,
Violent Crime Falls to 35-Year Low
Coinciding with a surge in gun purchases that began shortly before the 2008 elections, violent crime decreased six percent between 2008 and 2009, including an eight percent decrease in murder and a nine percent decrease in robbery. Since 1991, when violent crime peaked, it has decreased 43 percent to a 35-year low. Murder has fallen 49 percent to a 45-year low. At the same time, the number of guns that Americans own has risen by about 90 million. Predictions by gun control supporters, that increasing the number of guns, particularly handguns and so-called “assault weapons,” would cause crime to increase, have been proven profoundly lacking in clairvoyance."
Thai
Elite Member
Firearm Safety In America 2009
The number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high, and rises by about 4.5 million per year. Below, statistics from 1981 forward are from the National Center for Health Statistics; those prior to 1981 are from the National Safety Council. NCHS annual numbers, rates, and trends of common accidents and selected other causes of death, for the U.S., each state, and the District of Columbia, are available on the NRA-ILA website in spreadsheet format.
The firearm accident death rate is at an all-time annual low, 0.2 per 100,000 population, down 94% since the all-time high in 1904. Since 1930, the annual number of such deaths has decreased 80%, to an all-time low, while the U.S. population has more than doubled and the number of firearms has quintupled. Among children, such deaths have decreased 90% since 1975. Today, the odds are more than a million to one, against a child in the U.S. dying in a firearm accident.
The number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high, and rises by about 4.5 million per year. Below, statistics from 1981 forward are from the National Center for Health Statistics; those prior to 1981 are from the National Safety Council. NCHS annual numbers, rates, and trends of common accidents and selected other causes of death, for the U.S., each state, and the District of Columbia, are available on the NRA-ILA website in spreadsheet format.
The firearm accident death rate is at an all-time annual low, 0.2 per 100,000 population, down 94% since the all-time high in 1904. Since 1930, the annual number of such deaths has decreased 80%, to an all-time low, while the U.S. population has more than doubled and the number of firearms has quintupled. Among children, such deaths have decreased 90% since 1975. Today, the odds are more than a million to one, against a child in the U.S. dying in a firearm accident.
you can make stats say anything you want. fact is, owning a gun (or guns) is a second amendment right. if you want one, know how to use it safely and train with it. if you don't want one, then its is very simple....don't buy one and you won't have any problems. damn, that's easy.
JohnsD90
New member
Hey rob/techno how many of those guns listed in those statistics were legally owned guns registered with the stste/town/country. It's almost never the guns that are legally owned that are the problem, its the crazy people that illegally buy them to kill people with...
Susicide stat doesnt count, if the person that wanted to kill themselve didnt have a gun they would have used other means to do so, like jump off bridge, electrocute, hit a tree at 120mph, stab themselves, and on and on....
Susicide stat doesnt count, if the person that wanted to kill themselve didnt have a gun they would have used other means to do so, like jump off bridge, electrocute, hit a tree at 120mph, stab themselves, and on and on....
techno
New member
Haha.. I knew I could get a rise out of all you cowboys!
I have no issue with owning a gun for self defense or any other legit purpose. I do however, have an issue with just how easy it is for people to obtain them. And Thai, although some stats show reductions in some crimes, it doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of deaths and injuries from firearms occur in OFFENSIVE situations, not defensive.
I have no issue with owning a gun for self defense or any other legit purpose. I do however, have an issue with just how easy it is for people to obtain them. And Thai, although some stats show reductions in some crimes, it doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of deaths and injuries from firearms occur in OFFENSIVE situations, not defensive.
Thai
Elite Member
You mean...like a rapist/robber who bought a gun illegally and then goes and kills someone?? It is actually for THAT very reason (where offensive outnumbers defensive) why i own a gun legally and has training in how to use it. But, i agree...make it harder to own a gun is fine by me, but don't limit the rights of legal gun owners.
And BTW, my more updated stats are pretty clear, aren't they? All the major crimes have declined with the rise in legal gun ownership.
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Trevloc
New member
if you make it harder for citizens to legally obtain a firearm, you are only going to increase those "offensive killing" statistics.
the ones who use weapons as an offensive are the ones who get them illegally, either they are stolen or from over the border or whatever. just cause you make the laws harsher on the ones who follow them, doesnt mean the ones that are wanting to do harm are going to stop and say "wait... thats against the law, ill need my ccw before i legally purchase a gun and THEN i can murder people."
i call bulls&*t.
btw this isnt meant to sound mean or anything. this would be a casual conversation tone.
the ones who use weapons as an offensive are the ones who get them illegally, either they are stolen or from over the border or whatever. just cause you make the laws harsher on the ones who follow them, doesnt mean the ones that are wanting to do harm are going to stop and say "wait... thats against the law, ill need my ccw before i legally purchase a gun and THEN i can murder people."
i call bulls&*t.
btw this isnt meant to sound mean or anything. this would be a casual conversation tone.
Thai
Elite Member
Since techno wants to go back in time with his stuff, i found this interesting 2000 article: Gun Control: Myths and Realities | David Lampo | Cato Institute: Daily Commentary
1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.
False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.
2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the hands of criminals.
False. Contrary to President Clinton's claims, there is no "gun show loophole." All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally by people who passed background checks.
3. The tragedy at Columbine High School a year ago illustrates the deficiencies of current gun control laws.
False. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in amassing their cache of weapons (not to mention the law against murder), so it seems rather dubious to argue that additional laws might have prevented this tragedy. The two shotguns and rifle used by Harris and Klebold were purchased by a girlfriend who would have passed a background check, and the TEC-9 handgun used by them was already illegal.
4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don't.
True. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.
6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works.
False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.
1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.
False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.
2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the hands of criminals.
False. Contrary to President Clinton's claims, there is no "gun show loophole." All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally by people who passed background checks.
3. The tragedy at Columbine High School a year ago illustrates the deficiencies of current gun control laws.
False. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in amassing their cache of weapons (not to mention the law against murder), so it seems rather dubious to argue that additional laws might have prevented this tragedy. The two shotguns and rifle used by Harris and Klebold were purchased by a girlfriend who would have passed a background check, and the TEC-9 handgun used by them was already illegal.
4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don't.
True. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.
6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works.
False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.
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techno
New member
Yep, your stats are more updated than I what I pulled from an 'I'm feeling lucky' search. But they were completely different stats to mine.
Read all of this this article. Sheriff: 4-Year-Old Shot In Head While Fishing - News Story - WPXI Pittsburgh
This kind of thing sickens me. Especially the ones where the guns are left lying around the house for little kids to play with. These parents should never have been allowed to own firearms because they are too dumb to own them. But the laws don't care about the innocent victims, just some ancient 1791 document written in a very different social climate and circumstance.
Read all of this this article. Sheriff: 4-Year-Old Shot In Head While Fishing - News Story - WPXI Pittsburgh
This kind of thing sickens me. Especially the ones where the guns are left lying around the house for little kids to play with. These parents should never have been allowed to own firearms because they are too dumb to own them. But the laws don't care about the innocent victims, just some ancient 1791 document written in a very different social climate and circumstance.
