Where in the "Diagnostics" section of the FSM is front window control?

[Deej101]

I'm trying to figure out why my front windows don't work.

Both rear windows work from driver control switch.

It happened after removing the security system. In that process, I removed 6 T-tap connections (but left the taps in place). I'm thinking I maybe pulled too hard on one?

So, I'm looking at the Diagnostics section of the FSM (for 2002) There are 9 sections:

1) Engine (DI-1-156) (FSM p177)
2) AT (DI-157-220)
3) ABS w/ EBD & BA & TRAC & VSC (DI-221-374)
4) SRS (DI-375-468)
5) Cruise Control (DI-469-488)
6) Engine Immobiliser (DI-489-510)
7) Body Control System (DI-511-550)
8) Back Door Control System (DI-551-575)
9) Air Conditioning (DI-576)

The logical section is the Body Control System, yet I don't find the front window circuits described there. It must be there, but I am not seeing it. Can anybody help me out, if you have that (or similar) FSM please?

 

[Sparky 97Runner]

It's not in the FSM. You need the 2002 Toyota 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram Manual. I just did a google search and saw one on ebay for $45. Very handy to have. Here's a Dropbox link to a 2000 4Runner Wiring Diagram Manual which might be close enough.

2000 Toyota 4Runner Wiring Diagram
Dropbox - 2000 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD383U) - Printable - Simplify your life

 

[96RedRunner]

[MENTION=582804]Deej101[/MENTION] FSM RM887U - Body Electrical - Power Window Control System - BE-60 thru BE-71.

 

[Deej101]

It's not in the FSM. You need the 2002 Toyota 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram Manual. I just did a google search and saw one on ebay for $45. Very handy to have. Here's a Dropbox link to a 2000 4Runner Wiring Diagram Manual which might be close enough.

2000 Toyota 4Runner Wiring Diagram
Dropbox - 2000 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD383U) - Printable - Simplify your life

Thanks for posting that link. I was more looking for a troubleshooting flowchart, like they use in the Diagnostics section, though. I think I found the closest thing they have on BE-7, which just narrows it down to the wire harness.

 

[Deej101]

[MENTION=582804]Deej101[/MENTION] FSM RM887U - Body Electrical - Power Window Control System - BE-60 thru BE-71.

Funny, was just looking there before I saw your post. So, from page BE-7, the flow for checking if *one* window does not work is:

1. Power window master switch
2. Power window switch
3. Power window motor
4. Wire harness

Since it is *two* windows, I think I can eliminate 1-3, right? Because it is unlikely for those to fail in 2 doors simultaneously. Which leaves me at wire harness. The question, though, is where exactly. Time for me to get comfortable with using a multimeter to probe things....

 

[96RedRunner]

The question, though, is where exactly. Time for me to get comfortable with using a multimeter to probe things....

Your FSM a working PDF search "window" in search bar, scroll results harness and connection points.
Get comfortable, may have to get what I call getting "intimate" using FSM VOM and Harness. :cheers:

Have hard copy EWD425U you hit wall.

 

[Sparky 97Runner]

Since it is *two* windows, I think I can eliminate 1-3, right? Because it is unlikely for those to fail in 2 doors simultaneously. Which leaves me at wire harness. The question, though, is where exactly. Time for me to get comfortable with using a multimeter to probe things....

I think that the Power Windows section of the wiring diagram manual would be of huge help. Hopefully someone can post a link to the 2002 manual.

Power Windows
Dropbox - 2000 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD383U) - Printable - Simplify your life

 

[Deej101]

Your FSM a working PDF search "window" in search bar, scroll results harness and connection points.
Get comfortable, may have to get what I call getting "intimate" using FSM VOM and Harness. :cheers:

Have hard copy EWD425U you hit wall.

Well that sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole, lol. But making a note of who has the holy grail (2001 wiring). Don't be surprised when you start getting DMs from me. For reference sake, here's what I know so far:

EWD383U (2000)
EWD425U (2001)
EWD471U (2002)
EWD514U (2003)

I have the full 2002 FSM, including 471U, which is my main reference material. I have misc pages from some others. One day I hope to own a paper copy of 2001.

Is there a current page here on site compiling resources? Seems everytime I've looked, many links were outdated/broken.

Anyway, back on track: after taking apart the door again (also did passenger door this time, cleaned up door lock actuator and switches) and putting it back together, now the windows work again, BUT now the driver side wont stay up. It hits the top and acts like theres an obstruction and comes back halfway down. It was late last night so just managed to get it mostly up for the night. More troubleshooting ahead.

Btw, this will sound lame, but when, in the course of doing electrical diagnostics, it says to "connect battery +/- to pin X" umm, how physically do I do that? Remember, I'm an elec noob. My first instinct is I need to connect a wire to the car battery and run it into the cabin where I'm working, but I know that's not right. More likely I need to find a wire under the dash that already does thst. What is common practice?

Anyway, thanks for your help!

 

[3ToyGuy]

Two possibilities here, honestly.
One: bring a battery in good shape, one that's charged up to 12.XX VDC, and sit it in the seat beside you. Hook two wires to it, very long ones, of different colors, and use them to apply the required voltage to the item being tested. Just be certain the car's battery is disconnected from the vehicle's systems. Honestly, best to disconnect the item under test entirely from the vehicle's systems, if possible. That way you're certain that the only voltage being applied to the item under test is from your test battery.
Not a bad idea to have an in-line fuse in the test battery's wire. Hot or return, it doesn't matter. The fuse should be equivalent to the fuse in the vehicle's system that feeds the item under test. Have a selection of fuses available, so you can change them out for different test items.

Second: You can use the vehicle's battery, if it's in decent shape, and charged to something over 12 VDC. Best method, IMHO, is to connect a couple of wires to the car's battery, and run them in through an open window. That way you can keep track of them. Keep them separate from the vehicles systems, so you know for certain which ones they are. Again, a fuse in one of the wires is a very good idea.
Alternatively, you can find a wire that provides the required voltage from the vehicles wiring. Heck, plug it it as normal, and set things up as though you're item under test is operating normally inside the vehicle's systems. Measure the voltage being applied by the vehicles systems on the two pins required, to ensure they are receiving the required voltage from the vehicle. If they are, problem solved.

Given a choice, I'd go with the first method. If the item under test is removed from the vehicle's systems entirely, you know it's not being influenced by the vehicle's systems.

I'm a radar tech by profession, and electrical shop supervisor.
Pat☺

 

[Deej101]

Two possibilities here, honestly.
One: bring a battery in good shape, one that's charged up to 12.XX VDC, and sit it in the seat beside you. Hook two wires to it, very long ones, of different colors, and use them to apply the required voltage to the item being tested. Just be certain the car's battery is disconnected from the vehicle's systems. Honestly, best to disconnect the item under test entirely from the vehicle's systems, if possible. That way you're certain that the only voltage being applied to the item under test is from your test battery.
Not a bad idea to have an in-line fuse in the test battery's wire. Hot or return, it doesn't matter. The fuse should be equivalent to the fuse in the vehicle's system that feeds the item under test. Have a selection of fuses available, so you can change them out for different test items.

Second: You can use the vehicle's battery, if it's in decent shape, and charged to something over 12 VDC. Best method, IMHO, is to connect a couple of wires to the car's battery, and run them in through an open window. That way you can keep track of them. Keep them separate from the vehicles systems, so you know for certain which ones they are. Again, a fuse in one of the wires is a very good idea.
Alternatively, you can find a wire that provides the required voltage from the vehicles wiring. Heck, plug it it as normal, and set things up as though you're item under test is operating normally inside the vehicle's systems. Measure the voltage being applied by the vehicles systems on the two pins required, to ensure they are receiving the required voltage from the vehicle. If they are, problem solved.

Given a choice, I'd go with the first method. If the item under test is removed from the vehicle's systems entirely, you know it's not being influenced by the vehicle's systems.

I'm a radar tech by profession, and electrical shop supervisor.
Pat☺

Pat, thank you so much. So my instinct wasn't really off at all. I have an excessive fear/respect for all things electrical, so I tend to triple check my thinking before ever taking action in that arena. Your post really helped.

This truck has so many weird things going on that I want to finally get to the bottom of everything, and it requires that I become comfortable and proficient with completely testing the electrical stuff. And I want to do it right.

If you know of any good youtube vids along those lines, please post em. I really really like Timmy the Toolman's videos because of how exceedingly thorough he is, especially with the details (I am *very* detail oriented). So, like that but for electrical.

Again, thanks. Greatly appreciated!

 

[Deej101]

Yes, I do have the full 2002 manual, including electrical. I'm still learning how to read the wiring diagrams. Getting there, slowly.

 

[96RedRunner]

Well that sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole, lol. I have the full 2002 FSM, including 471U, one day I hope to own a paper copy of 2001.
it says to "connect battery +/- to pin X" umm What is common practice?

Disregard any manual not 01-02 many changes came to and went before and after with the systems.
Down the rabbit hole is necessary to knowing the manual and how to utilize it real world. A problem can
have you jumping all over manual 576 hits some of those you will need.
Every control electrician has multi colored alligator clipped jumpers get you some.
Power sources I've used. Nearest always hot refer to jumper note, 9vdc smoke alarm battery
to run rear locker motor and test circuits, isolated car battery current battery in use with a jumper.


Current symptoms sound like jam protection function. May need motor limit switch reset.
Notice: If the jam protection function is triggered and the window lowers after the window has been fully
closed by AUTO UP operation (step i), reset the power window motor again.

Edit: Or it may not, manual & meter scratching of head an azz sometimes figuring out the puzzle.
Learn to read That you cannot see.

 

[phattyduck]

BUT now the driver side wont stay up. It hits the top and acts like theres an obstruction and comes back halfway down. It was late last night so just managed to get it mostly up for the night. More troubleshooting ahead.

Don't use the auto feature and you'll be able to close it just fine (first click, not second click). There may be a re-learn procedure (most new cars have it, and the auto up systems generally require it), though I haven't had to do it on my 4Runner.

-Charlie

 

[Deej101]

Don't use the auto feature and you'll be able to close it just fine (first click, not second click). There may be a re-learn procedure (most new cars have it, and the auto up systems generally require it), though I haven't had to do it on my 4Runner.

-Charlie

Thanks. Yeah, I learned that (until I figure this out) that if I hold the Up and then shut off motor and continue holding for another minute, it will stay closed for the night.

 

[phattyduck]

Thanks. Yeah, I learned that (until I figure this out) that if I hold the Up and then shut off motor and continue holding for another minute, it will stay closed for the night.

Opening the driver's door will kill the retained accessory power so you don't have to hold it that long.

-Charlie

 

[Deej101]

Opening the driver's door will kill the retained accessory power so you don't have to hold it that long.

-Charlie

Great tip Charlie, so the motor won't burn out so fast. Didn't even think of it. Still haven't found definitive method for resetting the motor.

Going to the salvage yard tomorrow, may try to grab a few motors to keep on hand.

I wonder if Toyota uses the same motors in all their models (I mean the little DC motor inside the housing)? They probably do. I wonder what the easiest source of motors is, like from which model and which part? I know how to get at the window regulator and door lock actuator motors, but are they the easiest to access? Hmmm wonder if there's a thread on this....

 

[96RedRunner]

still haven't found definitive method for resetting the motor...

One of those 576 , BE-71 - Adjustment - How to Reset Power Window Motor (Limit Switch).

23+- yr. old motor with carbon brushes riding copper commutator, bad odds.

 

[Deej101]

One of those 576 , BE-71 - Adjustment - How to Reset Power Window Motor (Limit Switch).

It's the 576 part that gets me. The adhd brain. Although, tbh, was hoping the solution did not require door dismantle (and kept seeing posts suggesting otherwise). But ultimately you're right. Attached for future reference (and searchers)

23+- yr. old motor with carbon brushes riding copper commutator, bad odds.

Well, couple points: 1) one of my recent hobbies (obsessions?) has been restoring old DC motors, and 2) there are some newer Toyotas at the yard. In fact, if I have time today, may even look for a rectifier and regulator for my oem alternator i want to rebuild...while there's only 2 t4rs there currently, there's a whole bunch of other Toyotas. A new rabbithole yay!

Thanks again Charlie.

 

[96RedRunner]

It's the 576 part that gets me. was hoping the solution did not require door dismantle But ultimately you're right.

Well, couple points: 1)restoring old DC motors, and 2) there are some newer Toyotas at the yard. A new rabbithole yay!

Thanks again Charlie.

Blindman learning to read brail getting into control/s what it compares too.
Gets fun when end of wire is walk - chopper flight
I'm far from right, meter manual wire confirms a symptom go from there.

DC motors oh boy had my fill of brushes size of 3-4 window motors. New rabbit hole keeps things interesting.