Which [toytec] full 3" lift kit with 500lbs of armor?

[Lindenwood]

Hello, everyone.

I have been doing quite a bit of digging, but most of the discussions on lifting involve piecing stuff together, and all but a few examples I have found referencing the Eibach springs are talking about using Tundra 5100s.

Expected weight increases:
Front: ~150lbs (bumper + winch).
Rear: ~150lbs (bumper w/ small cargo carrier, recovery gear, and a 33" spare underneath)
Frame: ~250lbs (sliders + skids)

This will be my daily driver so Id like it to be at least moderatrly compliant over bumps and such. But, I don't want the front scraping the road during an emergency stop, or the hitch sagging to the ground when loaded up with another 500lbs of people, dogs, and gear!

Towing, at this point, is really an afterthought. But, nothing I would ever tow with any consistency will weigh more than maybe 1200lbs. If I try to drag somebody's yacht to the water for them, I'll accept some squat for the trip .

For now, I am not particularly interested in piecing together my own setup because I want to be able to install it in a weekend without worrying about if I got the correct X or Y shock / coil / bolts, etc. I have had stuff like this happen in the past, and I am thus happily willing to spend an extra hundred or two to have Toytec piece it all together for me instead of sourcing parts from around the web.

Bilstein/Eibach 3" Kit:
3" lift ToyTec/Bilstein kit for 96-02 4Runner
I have heard the ride is pretty good with these, but most of the anecdotes reference tundra 5100s, and also most don't specify significant weight increases.

OME Kit
Complete OME suspension for 96-02 4Runner
The main complaint I hear about the OME kit is a too-firm ride, but I have found very few reviews on the heavier-duty OME parts at all, let alone this specific kit. Across the Toyota world, however, I have generally heard great things about OME, and I am also attracted to this kit because it has options which seem more deliberately specified toward heavy weight.

Toytec Non-adjustable coilover kit:
TTHA-9602 - ToyTec/Eibach 3" lift kit - 96-02 4Runner
I know very little about this kit, but its price is in line with the two previous kits if I have Toytec assemble the fronts.

Toytec Boss
BOSS Lift Kit for '96-'02 4Runner
I am sure I could be perfectly happy with a deliberately-selected shock-and-coil kit. But, I could probably be talked into the BOSS setup if I could get more anecdotes on its benefits.

I am out of the country for another month or so, but plan on calling Toytec before I order to get their recommendation. But, for now I am polling the audience.

Thoughts and recommendations between these kits?

Thanks!

 

[TMP]

I'm running the first option : Toytec Bilstein/Eibach Kit and the ride is really nice. I have an AOR Plate Bumper and RCI Aluminum skids with a full 3"s all around. Going to put my Superwinch on once we get a warm weekend day to see how it sits and feels. I think it will be fine.
I feel like if I go rear bumper with tire carrier I may need heavier duty springs in the rear - but that is maybe a year away.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

My vote goes to the "Bilstein/Eibach" kit.
Adjustable coilovers are nice, but as long as you find a coil height that suits your needs, there isn't much reason to have that adjustability. Of course- in my opinion.
I like the simplicity of the standard coilover(what we all have factory) setup, myself. The adjustable coilover is still just an Eibach coil on a Bilstein(I assume, since Bilstein also sells ToyTec parts, and the BOSS shocks look just like Bilstein) threaded shock body. There is a badass factor to go along with the adjustable coilovers, but it's still just a shock and coil.
With that weight, they might recommend the Superflex(they are 3.75" lift) rear coils.

 

[Lindenwood]

Yeah the adjustability of the coilovers is insignificant to me if I get a set of regular coils that are appropriately sized / weighted. But, if the shocks that come with the higher end kits have, for example, significantly-improved valving that increases capability and quality, I would be more interested. But, so far, I am not particularly convinced they are worth the money.

I would definitely like to hear more, though!

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Yeah, and I completely agree with that. I would like to talk to a Bilstein tech about that, really.

 

[BrandonF]

I know of mentioned you'd rather not piece your lift together, but I will mention that you can save a lot more than 1 or 2 hundred going that route. My truck is fully armored, winch, etc. and I am running the tundra bilstein front/ landcruiser rear lift that can be pieced together for less than $500

 

[hounddogman]

How much lift do you want ? That much weight I would stay away from the bilstein eibach kit .

 

[Lindenwood]

I am going for 2-3" SL (most of the ones tailored for higher weighs seem to be 3", which is fine with me). I will drop the front diff regardles which route I go. I might consider a 1" BL to help clear the 285s without hacking away at the body too much, but that is a separate consideration.

Brandon, this quote from Sonoran Steel pretty well explains my hesitance to piece the kit together. And buying all new parts is certainly within a couple hundred, if not closer.

USED COILS:

I don't recommend it at all with the front TRD Tundra coils. 99% of them used out there will not work. Nothing from an Access Cab will work, Nothing from a 2WD will work, Nothing from a NON-TRD truck will work, Nothing from 1999-2002 and 2005-2006 will work. The only coil that works and is tall and soft is 2003-2004 Full 4 Door Double Cab, 4WD with TRD Package. The coils have the color codes Yellow-Yellow and Yellow-Blue.

As for the rear lift coils, you can buy OME 890 springs, New LC coils or try to find used LC coils. If you look for used coils, you want to get the FRONT coils (which go in the 4Runners rear) from a 1995-1997 FZJ80. No other years work correctly. Nothing from a Lexus. If the seller does not know what year they came out of, then don't buy them. Counting wraps is not our benchmark, we use actual model years, we CAN NOT tell if the number of wrap are correct, know the model year!

The ONLY used springs you want and will work correctly are One: green/orange/white and the Second: purple/gray/white.

Personally, I would buy new springs. If you DO NOT get the EXACT parts listed here, it is NOT going to come out right.

 

[BrandonF]

I am going for 2-3" SL (most of the ones tailored for higher weighs seem to be 3", which is fine with me). I will drop the front diff regardles which route I go. I might consider a 1" BL to help clear the 285s without hacking away at the body too much, but that is a separate consideration.

Brandon, this quote from Sonoran Steel pretty well explains my hesitance to piece the kit together. And buying all new parts is certainly within a couple hundred, if not closer.

I don't mean to start an argument here but that info is just straight up false. I have been running used non-trd tundra coils for almost 5 years now. I picked up the whole stock suspension setup for $50.

People use all sorts of 80-series cruiser coils. As long as they are the front coils, there's no reason why any of the years won't work. I picked mine up for $40 for the pair. Do I know what year they are? F*ck no. All I know is that the ride and performance off-road has been awesome and the flex they give when paired with the landcruiser shocks always blows people away.

This stuff isn't rocket science and it sounds like he is trying to promote his own product but turning people off of doing it themselves. I'm curious to know his reasons for why this stuff apparently won't work.

 

[ltsr]

Yeah the adjustability of the coilovers is insignificant to me if I get a set of regular coils that are appropriately sized / weighted. But, if the shocks that come with the higher end kits have, for example, significantly-improved valving that increases capability and quality, I would be more interested. But, so far, I am not particularly convinced they are worth the money.

I would definitely like to hear more, though!

I went with the toytec adjustable fronts. This is because I plan on getting a front bumper but not right away. With the adjustable fronts, you can go low or high depending on when you get the front bumper/winch. Are you getting it all at once? The last thing I want is to do is dick around changing setups (like what I see most people here do). Some are constrained by budget, lack of direction when purchasing or change of mind. It sounds like you know what you want from the bat.

You need to be honest with yourself about the rear setup. Do you plan on carrying any load in the rear full time? Some of us carry a decent amount of weight, about 50+ lbs in the back for recovery gear and what not. The weight is important because if you chose an OME setup, it won't ride "harsh" as some post about. They probably have empty or little weight in the back. I carry 50+ lbs in the back full time. Another thing to be honest with yourself is do you really need the full 3" rear lift? This means extended brake line, panhard bracket, etc. I chose to go with OME 906 + 4runner specific bilstein 5100s. You said you want to do your lift in a weekend. Well, going from 2" to 3" requires a bit more work if you want to do it right and add all the bits.

 

[Lindenwood]

Are you getting it all at once?

The likely plan is to install a new set if wheels and tires, plus the lift, toward the end of March. Unfortunately, i won't be able to get my welding tanks from back home until the end of May. My wife will be gone for a month for work throughout June, so I figure that wiuld be a good time to fab up the front and rear bumpers and skid plates.

I might still wait on the suspension and wheels until I get the armor installed, but worse case I will just accept a potentially firmer ride for April and May.

You need to be honest with yourself about the rear setup. Do you plan on carrying any load in the rear full time? Some of us carry a decent amount of weight, about 50+ lbs in the back for recovery gear and what not. The weight is important because if you chose an OME setup, it won't ride "harsh" as some post about. They probably have empty or little weight in the back. I carry 50+ lbs in the back full time.

Actually, I totally forgot that. I indeed don't expect the rear bumper itself to be terribly heavy, but I forgot to consider the recovery gear i will always have with me. So yeah, expect more like 150+lb of weight added to the rear, to include a heavier spare (stock location), the bunper itself, and the recovery gear (including a hi-lift). Thus, perhaps closer to 600 pounds total added once it is all said and done. I expect at least once or twice a week 160lbs of dog in the back as well, and probably my wife pretty often, too . And, at least once a month it will have 100-150lbs of water, cooler, and occasionally fuel sitting on my cargo carrier just behind the rear hatch (imagine a cooler sitting where most aftermarket swing-outs put the tire). Much of my offroding will be done with this load, which is why I was still considering the heavier springs.

Another thing to be honest with yourself is do you really need the full 3" rear lift? This means extended brake line, panhard bracket, etc. I chose to go with OME 906 + 4runner specific bilstein 5100s. You said you want to do your lift in a weekend. Well, going from 2" to 3" requires a bit more work if you want to do it right and add all the bits.

Most every anecdote i have found says the panhard and brake line modifications are not necessary with 3" of lift. However, i will confirm with better data. Based on these anecdotes, i am still pretty certain the factory components would work without modification for normal driving. So, worst case Id be "forced" to drive it without those mods while a new brake line came in and i could build a panhard drop bracket. I haven't looked at it in person yet, but I would like to slightly move the panhard forward anyways so i can more easily fit a full 33" spare underneath.

 

[ltsr]

The likely plan is to install a new set if wheels and tires, plus the lift, toward the end of March. Unfortunately, i won't be able to get my welding tanks from back home until the end of May. My wife will be gone for a month for work throughout June, so I figure that wiuld be a good time to fab up the front and rear bumpers and skid plates.

I might still wait on the suspension and wheels until I get the armor installed, but worse case I will just accept a potentially firmer ride for April and May.



Actually, I totally forgot that. I indeed don't expect the rear bumper itself to be terribly heavy, but I forgot to consider the recovery gear i will always have with me. So yeah, expect more like 150+lb of weight added to the rear, to include a heavier spare (stock location), the bunper itself, and the recovery gear (including a hi-lift). Thus, perhaps closer to 600 pounds total added once it is all said and done. I expect at least once or twice a week 160lbs of dog in the back as well, and probably my wife pretty often, too . And, at least once a month it will have 100-150lbs of water, cooler, and occasionally fuel sitting on my cargo carrier just behind the rear hatch (imagine a cooler sitting where most aftermarket swing-outs put the tire). Much of my offroding will be done with this load, which is why I was still considering the heavier springs.


Most every anecdote i have found says the panhard and brake line modifications are not necessary with 3" of lift. However, i will confirm with better data. Based on these anecdotes, i am still pretty certain the factory components would work without modification for normal driving. So, worst case Id be "forced" to drive it without those mods while a new brake line came in and i could build a panhard drop bracket. I haven't looked at it in person yet, but I would like to slightly move the panhard forward anyways so i can more easily fit a full 33" spare underneath.

About the brake line and panhard, this is why I said "do it right." Because even though it's not necessary for normal driving, the moment you flex the rear suspension. Do you want to have a ruptured brake line on the trail? For most of us who mall crawl all day, it's fine. If you're honest with yourself and you won't be flexing it and pushing the limits you're probably going to be ok.

 

[Lindenwood]

About the brake line and panhard, this is why I said "do it right." Because even though it's not necessary for normal driving, the moment you flex the rear suspension. Do you want to have a ruptured brake line on the trail? For most of us who mall crawl all day, it's fine. If you're honest with yourself and you won't be flexing it and pushing the limits you're probably going to be ok.

That is fair. I don't particularly mind replacing the brake line, because I was going to flush the brake system soon anyways.

But, this is from the second post in the "3rd gen 4Runner Lift Info" sticky:

I would add, that the rear Brake line extensions, the rear panhard brackets and other "rear accessories" are purely that... accessories...

Many have 4runners have been run with these lifts without panhard or brake extensions,

I will for the record state, that I will take no liability for your 4runner, but "I" and several others have foregone the "panhard extensions" and the "brakeline extensions" with no issues in extreme 4wheeling environments with no repercussions running LC coils..

so, if you want to spend another 40$-100%$ on those "accesories" more power to you, I personally do not feel it necessary, and others in this forum have concurred by their actions. again, your 4runner is your responsibilty though.

 

[theesotericone]

[MENTION=148869]Lindenwood[/MENTION]

I have the toytech/eibach 3" lift installed on my rig. The bilstien is set to it's first perch as per toyechs recommendations. It's been on for six months since I installed it and I've had no loss of height from settling. It gave more then 3" of lift all the way around. More like 3.5 without any added weight.

Currently the only added weight is savage skids and it still drives great IMO. I'm waiting on my front bumper to be finished. The eibach springs have a spring rate of 620 pounds do I don't see any issues once I get that bumper/winch on. If the bumper turns out to be to heavy enough to cause a greater than 1/2" loss of height I can always just raise the fronts a perch. Not as easy as coilovers but not nearly hard enough to justify the extra 400 bucks to me. Most friends with coilovers haven't adjusted them in years.

As far as the "extras" go. I didn't do the diff drop, brake line or the panhard. The OG boots tore after 2 weeks and since rebooting the new ones are fine and not rubbing despite not having a diff drop. My rear is ever so slightly pulled to the passenger side but I can easily live with it. I wheel hard enough and at full droop the OG brake line is tight but not overly so that it causes me to worry about it.

Just my two pennies about what I'm running and how it's worked out so far. As usual, your mileage my vary.

 

[Lindenwood]

Thanks for the info!

So far, the Eibach kit is certainly in the lead heh. I have found a good bit more info on the heavier-duty OME kits. I will be adding more weight than most, but still the overall consensus is they are pretty firm. The only real positive review on the ride quality was on a rig with a decent amount of weight added, but he still acknowledge that it wasn't particularly soft. I do certainly want a "planted" feel, but I would need to get some more info before I went that route. Generally, though, folks report consistent ride height even with added loads, and a firm feel that contributes positively to handling. Some even find the HD kits firm enough to remove one or both of the sway bars, which might be worth considering.

From my reading on the LC coils, it sounds like they are indeed very soft and compliant, which also means they tend to be more affected by changes in weight. I have found several anecdotes of at least noticable sagging when adding just a few hundred pounds. I also am having trouble finding used sets with clear enough descriptions to know what I am getting.

I won't be able to look at it for another month (outside the US right now), but I might make a panhard drop bracket with the lift just to eak out a little more space for a full-sized 33" spare. That is, assuming there is enough room to move it forward even 1/4 to 1/2 an inch.

I appreciate all the thoughts!

 

[JayRolla]

I don't mean to start an argument here but that info is just straight up false. I have been running used non-trd tundra coils for almost 5 years now. I picked up the whole stock suspension setup for $50.

People use all sorts of 80-series cruiser coils. As long as they are the front coils, there's no reason why any of the years won't work. I picked mine up for $40 for the pair. Do I know what year they are? F*ck no. All I know is that the ride and performance off-road has been awesome and the flex they give when paired with the landcruiser shocks always blows people away.

This stuff isn't rocket science and it sounds like he is trying to promote his own product but turning people off of doing it themselves. I'm curious to know his reasons for why this stuff apparently won't work.

The info is not false. He recommends going new and trd coils. Many have installed others and got less lift and or stiff ride. He is the one who originally did the trd/lc lift. He has tested all the coils. He knows his stuff.

 

[mtbtim]

Whichever way you eventually choose, [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I have a video that may help you out with the install.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yXjioXyZa_M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BrandonF]

The info is not false. He recommends going new and trd coils. Many have installed others and got less lift and or stiff ride. He is the one who originally did the trd/lc lift. He has tested all the coils. He knows his stuff.

Yeah but he's not just saying that you'll get a different ride or lift height. That would be a fair statement. He's saying that they straight up won't work, which is false.

If he were to chime in and explain his reasoning, I'm all ears. But from my experience, just throw any old tundra and LC coils on and go wheel.

 

[Lindenwood]

Based on everything I have found so far, I will be adding a good bit more weight than most, so it has been tough to find more than a few anecdotes with large amounts of weight in the rear. Still, right now it is a debate between:

1) The eibach kit, but with the rears swapped for the 3.75"-lift Superflex coils (advertised at 3" lift with 400lbs). They seem to ride well, though a few users have reported that they sag more than this under such loads.

2) The second option is the OME kit with 891s in the rear and 883s up front. I found several more positive reviews of the 891s and 883s now, and am more confident I would like the ride they give.

For either kit, the question is which will hold the weight better. The added weight will indeed be pretty spread out over the vehicle (winch up front and hi-lift / spare / daily gear in rear, with the skids also biased toward the front). I do not particularly like the "level" look, because to me that is how a truck shoukd sit with a few hundred pounds of gear. I do sppose for either, the worst case if I want the rear just a hair higher I could install a thin spacer?

 

[fourfive]

Based on everything I have found so far, I will be adding a good bit more weight than most, so it has been tough to find more than a few anecdotes with large amounts of weight in the rear. Still, right now it is a debate between:

1) The eibach kit, but with the rears swapped for the 3.75"-lift Superflex coils (advertised at 3" lift with 400lbs). They seem to ride well, though a few users have reported that they sag more than this under such loads.

2) The second option is the OME kit with 891s in the rear and 883s up front. I found several more positive reviews of the 891s and 883s now, and am more confident I would like the ride they give.

For either kit, the question is which will hold the weight better. The added weight will indeed be pretty spread out over the vehicle (winch up front and hi-lift / spare / daily gear in rear, with the skids also biased toward the front). I do not particularly like the "level" look, because to me that is how a truck shoukd sit with a few hundred pounds of gear. I do sppose for either, the worst case if I want the rear just a hair higher I could install a thin spacer?

Have you looked into one 861? Seems like most people that have installed them have not had any sagging issues. Theyr'e supposed to give 4-5" lift but if you already know you will be carrying around a lot of weight the 861 might be something to consider.