Triton's Toy4R
New member
go forward with a WARN and don't look back. the one time you need it will be well worth the extra $. and if you sell your truck, you can keep it for your next rig.
Which WINCH should I buy??
- Thread starter 00_4runner
- Start date
00_4runner
New member
Thanks for the responses guys, I think I'll end up buying the m8000 from warn. I'm all about saving weight up front and even though 40 lbs in line is not that much I like the idea that there is less weight up front. Can the lines be swapped with the winch attached to the car and bumper, or do I have to dismantle everything in order to swap cables?
the great him
Elite Member
swap the line before you install, it will be much easier. and if you are going to use synthetic(nothing wrong with it, i just am old school) do so before you use the winch, as the drum and other parts can become "scared" or "mauled" by the wire cable if used even once. and those scratches that the wire cable leads will be abrasive and cut into your nice new synthetic line you have. just an FYI. enjoy, you will be glad you got a warn.
-ps all my warn winches i have, i bought second hand, and never once have had an issue(mechanical). go prepared!
jmt2404
New member
I have an XRC10 with a synthetic line and have no complaints. Here is a couple videos of me pulling out a K5 with just my winch. First time I got to use it. Probably not smart pulling out such a heavy rig with just the winch but I was pretty eager to use it. 4runner pulling out K5 blazer Nisqually river part 1 - YouTube
4runner pulling out K5 blazer Nisqually river part 2 - YouTube
I have a wiring diagram I think from national luna to wire in a winch with a dual battery system. If you want to see it.
Didn't know that..I kind of hate them..
00_4runner
New member
Thanks for the help, I know you are old school but do you (or anyone else, please feel free to chime in) know of the best place to buy a synthetic line? I want a quality line but I dont want to drain my wallet, yes I know they are expensive just looking for advice. Thanks!
the great him
Elite Member
Winch Rope Master-Pull Superline XD Winch Ropes
Viking Winchlines - Safety Thimble
Amsteel Blue, Winch Line, Rope, ATV winch lines
im sure there are more but those are the ones id look at. but being as i am not too big into it there might be others out there for a lot less money. i guess if the stuff was cheaper then id consider it but the cost has been whats kept me away. if it was as cheep as metal cable then id suck up the fragileness of the synthetic and run it but i can justify spending $300+ every couple of years to replace my lines...
Viking Winchlines - Safety Thimble
Amsteel Blue, Winch Line, Rope, ATV winch lines
im sure there are more but those are the ones id look at. but being as i am not too big into it there might be others out there for a lot less money. i guess if the stuff was cheaper then id consider it but the cost has been whats kept me away. if it was as cheep as metal cable then id suck up the fragileness of the synthetic and run it but i can justify spending $300+ every couple of years to replace my lines...
cordrayj1
New member
You can get amsteel from many many different types of vendors for cheaper. Try sail lofts. Spectra is spectra and sometimes will have UV resistant qualities if it was designed for yachting. Just as strong. Get yourself a thimble and you're done.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Pikeman
New member
Ok I agree with most of what was said on here. Warn M8000 is one of the most popular and reliable out there. The early Smittybuilt's had a bad rep but I know several people that have been running them for years trouble free. MileMarkers also have a good rep but not as common as the other two. A new brand and also affordable is the Engo winch and in the Magazine Winch tests last year it finished in the top and was voted best value. I will be purchasing an Engo 10k with synthetic line.
Most peoples rule of thumb for choosing winch size is Vehicle x 1.5= weight rating
My case 4800 x 1.5= 7200 or a 8k winch.
There are others including myself that feel it is better to use Vehicle x 2= weight rating
My case 4800 x 2= 9600 or a 9.5 or 10k winch.
The first one is self recovery mathematics. The second formula is for general recovery mathematics because you may end up like the JMT2404 and need to recover a larger vehicle. Also as mentioned by The Kid there are several factors that affect recovery and mathematical equations that go into figuring out resistance. Slope, terrain(rocks) how deep the vehicle is mired in mud, snow, sand. Another key thing to remember is how many wraps are left on the drum. As you recover the more line on the drum the pulling capacity decreases. So you want to have s much line spooled out at all times. Also have a recovery bag with several shackles, a couple blocks(for double and triple line pulls) and tree savers. If you use a block for steel line make sure to label as Steel and get a seperate one for your synthetic.
IMHO the best synthetic line system out there is Viking line with the safety thimble. Master pull is great but only comes set-up for hooks and the reason I prefer Viking and would say the two are a dead match when equiped with hook ends.
If you are mounting the winch inside an ARB, Outdoor Logic, or any plate bumper it is protected from UV. If mounting on a tube bumper like Addicted Offroad then sure you will get some UV degradation but it isnt like 6 months you need to worry about a new line, it takes a long time to break it down.
Most peoples rule of thumb for choosing winch size is Vehicle x 1.5= weight rating
My case 4800 x 1.5= 7200 or a 8k winch.
There are others including myself that feel it is better to use Vehicle x 2= weight rating
My case 4800 x 2= 9600 or a 9.5 or 10k winch.
The first one is self recovery mathematics. The second formula is for general recovery mathematics because you may end up like the JMT2404 and need to recover a larger vehicle. Also as mentioned by The Kid there are several factors that affect recovery and mathematical equations that go into figuring out resistance. Slope, terrain(rocks) how deep the vehicle is mired in mud, snow, sand. Another key thing to remember is how many wraps are left on the drum. As you recover the more line on the drum the pulling capacity decreases. So you want to have s much line spooled out at all times. Also have a recovery bag with several shackles, a couple blocks(for double and triple line pulls) and tree savers. If you use a block for steel line make sure to label as Steel and get a seperate one for your synthetic.
IMHO the best synthetic line system out there is Viking line with the safety thimble. Master pull is great but only comes set-up for hooks and the reason I prefer Viking and would say the two are a dead match when equiped with hook ends.
If you are mounting the winch inside an ARB, Outdoor Logic, or any plate bumper it is protected from UV. If mounting on a tube bumper like Addicted Offroad then sure you will get some UV degradation but it isnt like 6 months you need to worry about a new line, it takes a long time to break it down.
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theizzardking
New member
years to break down, my slack line in my back yard has been strung up for years and has only started showing UV degrade a few months ago...synth line is the same stuff we use in our climbing ropes since as long as i can remember...good stuff and alot more robust the most really think
cordrayj1
New member
great read:
http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Dyneema article.pdf
this article tells about UV breakdown resistance, breaking strengths, sensitivity to heat, chafe resistance, and the influence of knots.
"15 times stronger than steel fiber of the same weight"
http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Dyneema article.pdf
this article tells about UV breakdown resistance, breaking strengths, sensitivity to heat, chafe resistance, and the influence of knots.
"15 times stronger than steel fiber of the same weight"
the great him
Elite Member
the key there is "of the same weight" all of you guys going out to buy synthetic are going for lighter weight. i run a 5/16" 125' cable on my 9.5ti, now yes that weighs a lot but i know i can double or even tripple that up if i need to pull something, as long as my cable is not kinked, frayed or other wise damaged. now to get that with same type of power or strength out of synthetic you have to jump up to a 3/8" rope to get a comperable strength rating.
5/16 wire cable and 5/16 synthetic rope are not the same thing! they do not have the same strength, the wire cable is stronger.
5/16 wire cable and 5/16 synthetic rope are not the same thing! they do not have the same strength, the wire cable is stronger.
Gerdo
New member
Samson-The Strongest Name in Rope, TECH-12
I'm running 3/8" Tech-12 with an average strength of 18,000 lbs. Even the 5/16" is 13,000 lbs.
Not all ropes are the same.
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the great him
Elite Member
^^^ see even with 3/8" rope and a 9.5 winch you are at its limit if you have to use one snatch block. i have used two snatch blocks before with my truck and winch to pull a semi out of the ditch(i had to anchor my truck to a big oak tree using a logging choker) and i was more worried about my winch and frame being torn apart. there is no way i could of done that with synthetic even if it was 3/8". if i do go synthetic ill probably end up getting 1/2" rope. but cost is telling me that's not going to happen anytime soon. there are pros and cons, you just have to make sure that the weight is a big enough factor for you to justify spending the extra $200-300 just for rope.
don't get me wrong, i like rope, we use it all the time in search and rescue. and i have never had one fail on me, but it requires special care. any sort of chemical or petroleum product, every thing from motor oil, to break fluid to coolant to battery acid, if it gets on your synthetic rope, its done, i wouldn't even try a pull with it. -we had to toss about 800' of rope on a recovery mission after it came in contact with a pond in a rock quarry where a front end loader tumbled into(killing the driver). we used the ropes as safety lines for the rescue divers to search the water. the loader had dumped a lot of its fuel and hydraulic oil into the pond. and even though it was on top of the water, just that was enough to start eating away at the ropes.
its great stuff just make sure you know how to take care of it and its limits thats all im trying to say. good luck and enjoy your new winch
-a winch is better than lockers imo, it will get you out of what lockers got you into.
don't get me wrong, i like rope, we use it all the time in search and rescue. and i have never had one fail on me, but it requires special care. any sort of chemical or petroleum product, every thing from motor oil, to break fluid to coolant to battery acid, if it gets on your synthetic rope, its done, i wouldn't even try a pull with it. -we had to toss about 800' of rope on a recovery mission after it came in contact with a pond in a rock quarry where a front end loader tumbled into(killing the driver). we used the ropes as safety lines for the rescue divers to search the water. the loader had dumped a lot of its fuel and hydraulic oil into the pond. and even though it was on top of the water, just that was enough to start eating away at the ropes.
its great stuff just make sure you know how to take care of it and its limits thats all im trying to say. good luck and enjoy your new winch
-a winch is better than lockers imo, it will get you out of what lockers got you into.
the great him
Elite Member
are you saying that lockers are better than a winch?
00_4runner
New member
Hmm this continuing debate is making me think twice about buying synthetic... How much does the steel line weigh? About 40lbs?
the great him
Elite Member
not to get off on something else but how are lockers better than a winch? they cost more, and you can still get stuck with them. i have yet to find a situation where a winch would or could not get me unstuck? i have wheeled on the rubicon, fordyce , lassen national forest, tillimook state forest, oregons sand dunes, all throughout the PNW cascades and eastern oregon desert, to iraq(all of those all times of the year). i have yet to find a place that my winch or another persons winch could not get them through or out of. i have seen plenty of times that lockers where not cutting it, and where lockers ended up breaking stuff on guys trucks. -ask Glen about a locker up front, and ask him if it keeps him from breaking CVs...(yes i know he loves his ARB). you can pick up a winch for cheep(although i would not recommend it) say $ 300, you can not have a locker set up and installed for that unless you do the work yourself. now lets go to the other end of the spectrum, you buy an ARB locker(arguably the best available, at $900+/- (we havent even looked at install or a compressor yet), you can pick up a warn M8000 for $700 all day long. thats $200 cheaper. oh and thats only one locker, not dual lockers, a winch on a mobile mount can go to the front or the back so take that $200 you just saveed by buying a winch over one locker, and buy a mobile mount and fill your truck full of gas and head out for some fun.
there is no way anyone on here can even reasonably argue that lockers are better than a winch! i have been around trucks and 4wheeling sense i was probably 12, im now 28 thats over half my life and id say i have a lot more experience than most other guys out there, sure im not Bill Burke or Marlin Czajkowsk or anyone like that, but i know a thing or two from experiences and (un)common sense.
-now im not calling you stupid or personally attacking you so please dont take it that way. it just amazes me how some people have argued this point time and time again. ask either of they two guy i just mentioned i bet they will tell you the same thing(i have never talked with them on this subject nor have i ever met Bill, i hope to someday get the honor), and im positive they will tell you the same thing.
and you should never go out alone even with a winch and or lockers, thats just asking for trouble, as a member of search and rescue i have personally seen this first hand as well. always go with a buddy and at least one other vehicle.
there is no way anyone on here can even reasonably argue that lockers are better than a winch! i have been around trucks and 4wheeling sense i was probably 12, im now 28 thats over half my life and id say i have a lot more experience than most other guys out there, sure im not Bill Burke or Marlin Czajkowsk or anyone like that, but i know a thing or two from experiences and (un)common sense.
-now im not calling you stupid or personally attacking you so please dont take it that way. it just amazes me how some people have argued this point time and time again. ask either of they two guy i just mentioned i bet they will tell you the same thing(i have never talked with them on this subject nor have i ever met Bill, i hope to someday get the honor), and im positive they will tell you the same thing.
and you should never go out alone even with a winch and or lockers, thats just asking for trouble, as a member of search and rescue i have personally seen this first hand as well. always go with a buddy and at least one other vehicle.
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cordrayj1
New member
dude. you are off topic. its your opinion. i dont feel you are attacking me, just not thinking straight. sorry BRO for dissing your knowledge. . .
Pikeman
New member
Your $200 savings will easily be eaten up with cost of good power cable and installation.
Also I have been wheeling most of the places you have including Iraq and Afghanistan in vehicles much much larger than our 4 Runners. I also have the ASI H8 (additional skills identifier for recovery)which I could go into formulas that blow your arguement of WLL and how a shackle system requires double the WLL on a winch line. While I do not discredit the advantages of having a winch as a RECOVERY tool a locker is a capability tool. Sure a locker can get you into situations that a Winch might be necessary for the recovery however it will get you over and through a lot of obstacles that an open open vehicle will get stuck on. I have been wheeling for as long as you have been alive and only needed a winch a few times, but my lockers have been used a lot more. Just remember two seperate purposes for the two items. If you are crazy enough to wheel alone then getting a Winch needs to be much higher priority than lockers.
Winch= Recovery tool
Lockers= Capability tool
