Why did you pick the T4R over the FJ or Wrangler Unlimited?

[Tuco Ramirez]

We're another family that has both a 2017 JKU Rubi and now the T4R SR5. While different, they are both great and we'll be keeping them for a long time. Also for fun we have a '96 4x4 4-door Tracker that is manual everything and blast to take off-road. Good to have choices.

Was in the same boat for some years. I had a Rubicon and my 4R’s. Got the Rubicon brand new and owned it for 6-7 years, never had any problems with it except the freedom top leaking a little but that is to be expected.
Like most said, both vehicle had their strong suits. The Jeep was fun to drive (was a proper 2-dr) and I never had any death wobble or issues some people complain about.
My Jeep was just as dependable as my 4R’s have been.

Most people here only claim the 4R is the best thing ever since that is what they own and need to justify it to themselves. They usually do the same thing with whatever tire they own, cai, exhaust, etc.

 

[Thai]

While there are stories of reliable Jeeps, you still cannot escape the fact that as a brand, Jeep reliability/dependability is trash. Only off-road brand that Jeep owners can make fun of is Land Rover....

 

[00Sebby]

While there are stories of reliable Jeeps, you still cannot escape the fact that as a brand, Jeep reliability/dependability is trash. Only off-road brand that Jeep owners can make fun of is Land Rover....

Yet if you look at the chart, Jeep brand only has 41% more issues than a Toyota. That sounds like a big difference but it says a Toyota vehicle on average has 1.13 problems. A Jeep on average has 1.59 problems... not even twice as many problems... or 10 times as many problems per vehicle as many on here would have you believe. None of my many Jeeps ever had a serious problem... even my '20 Rubicon did not exhibit the common JL problems you hear about. My reason for going back to the 4R is I missed my '10 TE, didn't really enjoy the on-road manners and noise of the Wrangler anymore, and lingering on the JL forum made me constantly worry about mine ending up in the shop for months because of FCA's lack of service parts availability.

 

[SnowYeti]

Another family that has both, JKU and TRD ORP. Logically and functionally the 4R wins hands down, it just does so many things better, comfort, long trips, back seats, cargo, towing, noise, handling, skiing, winter conditions, etc etc. I really love it, and like the JK it has great after market and has been fun to work on.

But the Jeep checks some fun boxes. Fun to drive around town (terrible on the highway), quick trips in the mountains, but having the top off is super fun in the summer. We have had zero issues with it and it is my wife’s daily driver. She says it makes her happy every day after work. Plus yeah, it has a great color and looks great lifted with bigger tires. She is a Jeep girl.

I don’t rock crawl either, but the Jeep would win. For what I do I prefer the 4R off road.

FJ wouldn’t have been an option with the doors. I do like they way they look. Pity they discontinued it and didn’t do a next gen. to go up against the Jeep with removable roof panels, (or a 50% roof slide back like a huge sunroof) heck it might have even looked great with 4 doors. That roof design begs to be removable, slidable or soft. Best of both worlds? Heck what I am imaging right now..I want one!

 

[Tuco Ramirez]

While there are stories of reliable Jeeps, you still cannot escape the fact that as a brand, Jeep reliability/dependability is trash. Only off-road brand that Jeep owners can make fun of is Land Rover....

I don’t really pay a lot of mind to jd power or consumer reports these days. Too many stories of manipulated rankings. I go more by personal experience and experiences of friends/family. I agree Jeep is not known for reliability but i have owned 3 wranglers and none had any issue whatsoever. I think the majority of Jeep problems are the super shitty models like the compass, renegade, grand cherokee.

 

[Thai]

lingering on the JL forum made me constantly worry about mine ending up in the shop for months because of FCA's lack of service parts availability.

And do you have that feeling surfing THIS forum?

Where do you think those problem threads on JL forums come from? Was it made up by sleazy members as part of a conspiracy to spam FCA??

Why do you think there is a parts availability issue from FCA? Because FCA parts guy forgot to click "Checkout" on his computer? Or that there is indeed lots of issues and thus drying up parts availability?

 

[Thai]

I don’t really pay a lot of mind to jd power or consumer reports these days. Too many stories of manipulated rankings. I go more by personal experience and experiences of friends/family. I agree Jeep is not known for reliability but i have owned 3 wranglers and none had any issue whatsoever. I think the majority of Jeep problems are the super shitty models like the compass, renegade, grand cherokee.

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Pretty bad.

 

[Fool-on-the-Hill]

And do you have that feeling surfing THIS forum?

Where do you think those problem threads on JL forums come from? Was it made up by sleazy members as part of a conspiracy to spam FCA??

Why do you think there is a parts availability issue from FCA? Because FCA parts guy forgot to click "Checkout" on his computer? Or that there is indeed lots of issues and thus drying up parts availability?

Oh man, you're right. I'm going to ditch my Wrangler that I enjoy driving because I didn't realize how unreliable it is supposed to be.

Seriously, people buy vehicles that suit them and their needs. If the vehicle you bought doesn't work for you find one that does. If reliability is the main factor in what you choose to buy, that's fine. I don't think it is for a lot of people, particularly Jeep buyers. It must be mass lunacy that Wranglers hold their value so well and nothing to do with the fact that they do what they are designed to do pretty well.

 

[Tuco Ramirez]

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Pretty bad.

FJ cruisers had frame issues, I specifically recall some cracking at welds during moderate off roading. This was one reason I traded mine in.

Also issues with a lot of other models. Toyota to settle U.S. truck rust lawsuit for up to $3.4 billion - Reuters

Quite a few frame issues. Point? All automakers have some issues. Wasn’t that the first year of production for the JL? Exactly why I never buy a first year run of any vehicle. Am dying for a new S1000RR but a first year BMW bike? No way. My 2018 has all the bugs worked out and has been flawless.

 

[gainman]

Fj and wrangler both too small. I'm 6'4. 5th gen has tons of interior room

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[Thai]

Oh man, you're right. I'm going to ditch my Wrangler that I enjoy driving because I didn't realize how unreliable it is supposed to be.

Seriously, people buy vehicles that suit them and their needs. If the vehicle you bought doesn't work for you find one that does. If reliability is the main factor in what you choose to buy, that's fine. I don't think it is for a lot of people, particularly Jeep buyers. It must be mass lunacy that Wranglers hold their value so well and nothing to do with the fact that they do what they are designed to do pretty well.

No doubt Jeep Wrangler is a great off-road vehicle. It is iconic. Jeep is smart not to change the iconic shape/capability...vs. what Land Rover did with Defender. It deserves the strong resale value. (FYI, i am a fan of Wrangler...and have stated such on this forum.)

However, when talking about reliability, that is simply not a strong point.

 

[Thai]

FJ cruisers had frame issues, I specifically recall some cracking at welds during moderate off roading. This was one reason I traded mine in.

Also issues with a lot of other models. Toyota to settle U.S. truck rust lawsuit for up to $3.4 billion - Reuters

Quite a few frame issues. Point? All automakers have some issues. Wasn’t that the first year of production for the JL? Exactly why I never buy a first year run of any vehicle. Am dying for a new S1000RR but a first year BMW bike? No way. My 2018 has all the bugs worked out and has been flawless.

Rust is an issue on all vehicles. There are tons of Youtube videos about Wrangler frame rot.

The point being is that Jeep quality is just not there. Now, if you put reliability/durability down on the list, but favor its raw capability and fun factor, then yeah, Wrangler rocks. But lets not pretend that Jeep does not have quality issues.

EDIT: Government investigating welds on Jeep Wrangler frames

2018-2019 Wranglers are affected...not just 2018. And the weld issue persist after "recall".

 

[AZ Craig]

I don’t really pay a lot of mind to jd power or consumer reports these days. Too many stories of manipulated rankings. I go more by personal experience and experiences of friends/family. I agree Jeep is not known for reliability but i have owned 3 wranglers and none had any issue whatsoever. I think the majority of Jeep problems are the super shitty models like the compass, renegade, grand cherokee.

I think this is a spot on assessment. I think infotainment and electronics issues are a lot of the reason for some of these rankings also these days.

Wranglers are generally the most reliable of everything Jeep makes; have heard about a lot more issues out of Grand Cherokees and Cherokees. I put about 85000 miles on a 2012 JKU before getting my 4Runner and honestly our only issues were a factory battery going out quicker than expected and when I traded it in one of the AC actuators was starting to have some issues. No major problems with it stranding me or drive train issues, etc.

Along these lines, I've had a Land Rover for 6 weeks now and have had 2 problems with it. One of them is related to in-car internet connectivity (and have not been able to get it resolved due to needing UK tech support which is down with COVID-19 and the other one is a defective speaker from the factory). Both are minor annoyances more than anything else. We'll see if I feel the same way in another year or two .

 

[00Sebby]

And do you have that feeling surfing THIS forum?

Where do you think those problem threads on JL forums come from? Was it made up by sleazy members as part of a conspiracy to spam FCA??

Why do you think there is a parts availability issue from FCA? Because FCA parts guy forgot to click "Checkout" on his computer? Or that there is indeed lots of issues and thus drying up parts availability?

Take a chill pill. My comment was both benign and accurate. I was just showing that data presented does not support the trash talk... anecdote/opinion/bias does not equal data. I was expressing my opinion on why I came back to a 4Runner after a short ownership of a JL Wrangler. Yes, a large part of my decision was based on both anecdote and data.

The JL had some serious missteps and FCA handled them poorly. But as in all things automotive, most of those things have been or are getting ironed out. Did the JL program launch as good as a Toyota?... no way. But over time, the vast majority of Wrangler owners will have vehicles that will last a long with few issues. I know this to be true after many hundreds of thousands of miles across 4 Wranglers and 4 other Jeeps. Even my AMC-designed Grand Wagoneer was a solidly reliable beast for many years.

I'm guessing my JLUR that did not have any of those "common" issues would probably have been reliable. I'm on my 39th vehicle and, short of a Pinto in college, I've never had an unreliable car that required much more than standard maintenance. It was the subjective stuff like roadability and noise combined with those FCA worries that made me want to come back here.

 

[LowCountry SR5P]

Because I owned a Jeep (early Grand Cherokee) that I loved but once it needed fixing it was like the gates opened. And they weren’t inexpensive gates. Jeep is damn proud of their proprietary repair parts, and there’s lots of them.


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[bigdaddy2021]

Just joined the forum recently, but my 2019 TRD Off-Road is the latest in a long line of 4x4's.

My wife and I wanted a vehicle that could take us on Offroad/Off-highway/Overland adventures, and quite honestly, we didn't want to be dealing with the issues of an older vehicle.

We considered:

low mile JK
Brand new JL
low mile/New Tacoma
New 4runner
Low mile 4runner.

Jeep's were booted for perceived and documented real-world reliability issues - Didn't want to spend $50k on a vehicle that couldn't be depended on for at least 10 years with lots of rough, off-road miles. The Pentastar 3.6 and 2.0T COULD be good motors, but I hated all the Push-to-start, Stop/start, remote start crap. Just un-necessary in our opinion.

Tacoma's were booted for their strange seating/cab ergonomics. Some love them, we just couldn't get comfortable.

New 4runners were scarce and blew our car + mod budget.

We sat in and did a 24hr test drive of the 2019 4runner and man, it just checked all the boxes. Comfortable, quiet, perceived and real-world durability/reliability, global parts availability, fits our family of 5, and while it's UBER capable with CRAWL control, ATRAC, KDSS, MTS and a rear e-locker, it's also capable of being daily driven by my wife (who has mobility issues) if we keep the tire size to 33's or smaller.

We found our 1-owner 2019 with 8k miles :wow: about 2 weeks ago, and have already ordered the following:

Sliders
full skid package
Rear link arm skids
rear shock skids
Safari snorkel
Front and rear Victory bumpers.

Shopping tires (probably Milestars or BFG's) and lifts right now.

That'll be it for the next year or so while we take it out on trips and decide how we'll use it the most. Moab, Big Bear, Colorado, Anza-Borrego, Sierra's, National parks like Yellowstone, Yosemite, and eventually the Pacific northwest and maybe even Alaska are on our list. Huge selling point is that while already being a very reliable and time-tested platform, we also have the remainder of the factory bumper to bumper, drivetrain and emissions warranty. #stoked.

 

[TRDHULK]

Jeep’s truly are junk IMO.

I work at a dealership and get to drive everything. For the money, size, looks, reliability, and everything else you get, the 4Runner is just a winner for me.

 

[BorotHex]

Rust is an issue on all vehicles. There are tons of Youtube videos about Wrangler frame rot.

The point being is that Jeep quality is just not there. Now, if you put reliability/durability down on the list, but favor its raw capability and fun factor, then yeah, Wrangler rocks. But lets not pretend that Jeep does not have quality issues.

EDIT: Government investigating welds on Jeep Wrangler frames

2018-2019 Wranglers are affected...not just 2018. And the weld issue persist after "recall".

LOL, yeah right. I’m going to take a Wrangler in to a dealership to fix botched frame welds. Show me a dealer who is even remotely qualified to perform work like that. No way. No ******* way.

 

[toofargone]

I bought an 05’ LJ new off the lot for 23k. That thing was super capable, super simple, and a super pos. It was definitely more capable than the FJ or the 4R. I also own an 07’ FJ and a 21’ ORP. Their is no comparison when it comes to the reliability between the two manufacturers. Toyota absolutely blows away Jeep in regards to reliability. Wranglers are superior when it comes to wheeling for sure though. No doubt about it. However, these new Wranglers are not what they used to be. They have too many nannies, too many electronics, and are a fat as hell. Way too big imo. My LJ didn’t even have ABS. If I could go to a Jeep dealership and by a new LJ for 23k, I’d do it in a heartbeat, but I will NEVER pay 40k+ for an fca product. If I’m dropping that amount of cash I will focus heavily on reliability. Those 4.0 I6 were great engines though.

 

[AMLOR]

Jeep...no thanks!

My cousin has a '14 Unlimited as his "toy". His DD is a BMW X6. After 300 Miles in the Jeep I couldn't wait to get out of it. Noisy, crappy A/C, cramped interior, rough ride...no thanks.

Not to mention that Jeep has gone from being owned by the second worst build quality/reliability company; Chrysler.
To the #1 worlds worst; FIAT.


I will take my 4Runner over that piece any day...