Why don't high end shocks last as long as OE in mild application?

[cheeser]

Cheers,

I was hesitant in asking this, but thought I would give it a try?

In looking for a set of new shocks and reading various threads, there seems to be the consensus (or myth) that high end shocks may have to be rebuilt. I understand it is entirely dependent on the workload they are subjected to.

I can understand why the spherical end may need to be changed over time, but why wouldn't the internals last longer than a OE shock due to their higher grade of materials such as better seals?

My question is really focused on when using a high end shock in a mild application such as majority of time on the road with occasional mild MTB trail use.

I'm currently looking at the 6112/5160 combo for my situation, but the Fox/King still draw attention even though they may be overkill.

 

[STX4Runner]

I don't have an answer to your specific question (I'm sure someone else will chime in), but if you're intended use is mild trails then Fox/King is definitely way overkill. Save yourself a lot of money and get something less expensive.

 

[wfo9]

Cheers,

I was hesitant in asking this, but thought I would give it a try?

In looking for a set of new shocks and reading various threads, there seems to be the consensus (or myth) that high end shocks may have to be rebuilt. I understand it is entirely dependent on the workload they are subjected to.

I can understand why the spherical end may need to be changed over time, but why wouldn't the internals last longer than a OE shock due to their higher grade of materials such as better seals?

My question is really focused on when using a high end shock in a mild application such as majority of time on the road with occasional mild MTB trail use.

I'm currently looking at the 6112/5160 combo for my situation, but the Fox/King still draw attention even though they may be overkill.

Here is my take on it.

High end shocks actually last for the life of the vehicle.. since they can be serviced with new seals and oil.

The lower end stuff is not serviceable, so they are throw away once worn out.

The higher end stuff is all CNC for precision oil control. The lower end mono tube shocks use hot formed components and plastics to make up for lower tolerances. Because of this.. the shock will last a decent amount of time, but the performance is constantly changing under different conditions.

In other words, the high end stuff actually performs at spec for much longer, but once the seals start to wear or the oil is contaminated.... it needs service. Which is actually pretty simple stuff in the right hands. The lower end will go without needing replacement for a long time, but the performance is still degrading over time and while in use.. Its just not near as sensitive to wear due to a lot of fudge factor built into the construction.

I'm not an expert on shock internals, but this has always been my general understanding. Less precise shocks have lower service intervals (but most can't be serviced).

 

[nb rob]

Being serviceable is a good thing.

People tend to hold on to OE shocks well beyond their proper lifespan. If they're not leaking, they don't get replaced. When the suspension bug first hit me years ago, I was shocked at the state of the rear shocks I took off my truck. They could be easily compressed by hand, but my friend and I couldn't pull them back to extension. That explained the very shitty ride.

I recently had to rebuild my rear king shocks because I listened to joe blow on the internet and didn't run boots. As it turns out, I drive a lot of gravel roads, and I pitted my shafts something fierce. After about 10,000km (6000 miles)

Shafts were surprisingly cheap. As was the rebuild kit.
It was an enjoyable 2 hours to rebuild them and fill with fresh oil. I've got nitrogen, so it's an easy job. Getting the rods ends off- well, that was probably the worst part. And I probably should have replaced the spherical bearings at the same time. No big deal; next time.

For me, maintaining shocks is something that I enjoy.
And these buggers ride DAMN nice. On road and off.

Definitely not for everyone, and to be honest, I wouldn't buy rebuildable shocks if I had no intention of rebuilding them myself. It seems like a huge hassle to remove shocks and ship them away, for a task that can be completed with minimal hand tools, a vice and soft jaws, and attention to detail.

And filthy motorsports has very comprehensive videos to complete the task.

 

[nb rob]

I also have 2 sets of rears. And I will likely have a second set of coilovers when the service interval rolls around for the fronts. I just swapped out the rears for service, and the first set sat on the workbench for a week or so. It was very relaxed and my truck wasn't disabled.

It sounds absurd probably, but hey. It's my hobby, and it's in my budget.

 

[1engineer]

Cheers,

I was hesitant in asking this, but thought I would give it a try?

In looking for a set of new shocks and reading various threads, there seems to be the consensus (or myth) that high end shocks may have to be rebuilt. I understand it is entirely dependent on the workload they are subjected to.

I can understand why the spherical end may need to be changed over time, but why wouldn't the internals last longer than a OE shock due to their higher grade of materials such as better seals?

My question is really focused on when using a high end shock in a mild application such as majority of time on the road with occasional mild MTB trail use.

I'm currently looking at the 6112/5160 combo for my situation, but the Fox/King still draw attention even though they may be overkill.

Very simple: One is designed for reliability and durability, the other for high performance.

Think of a 4Runner versus a top fuel dragster. One performs for a long time with not much maintenance. One performs at a high level for a short time.

With that said, they are rebuildable and will last a long time, but they are rebuildable. The big problem with getting them rebuilt is A) Time, like two weeks or so without your 4Runner and B) Expense. Could cost you enough to get it rebuilt that you could have bought bilsteins.

 

[wfo9]

Very simple: One is designed for reliability and durability, the other for high performance.

Think of a 4Runner versus a top fuel dragster. One performs for a long time with not much maintenance. One performs at a high level for a short time.

With that said, they are rebuildable and will last a long time, but they are rebuildable. The big problem with getting them rebuilt is A) Time, like two weeks or so without your 4Runner and B) Expense. Could cost you enough to get it rebuilt that you could have bought bilsteins.

This is true (performance vs longevity...), but the analogy is a little extreme. Top fuel dragsters make one or two passes on a motor before a tear down and consume around 11 gallons of fuel per sec at WOT LOL.

Most of your high end precision shocks will last over 30-50k without a rebuild. Unless something is wrong from the start or you pit out the shaft or something. Something like a Bilstein may last 100k. An emulsion shock will last longer.. but now you are talking total crap performance. If you want the best balance of durability and performance do OME... they are a hybrid design and have the life of an emulsion shock but perform like a low end mono tube...


Also, there are factory performance trucks now sold with precision shocks.. Take the ford raptor.... They require a very similar rebuild interval. Rebuild is not anything more than changing the oil and replacing some seals. It does require a few special tools... and the ability to recharge with nitrogen... Should just take a few hours and cost about 30$ in parts, but the key is finding someone who does it... and removing from the vehicle.

 

[cheeser]

Very simple: One is designed for reliability and durability, the other for high performance..

Maybe I am over simplifying things, but just because something is built for high performance, it shouldn't mean it can't be durable and reliable over some determined interval of some workload.

In this case, why does a shock of fox/king caliber need to replace seals and fluid after a fairly low service interval if they are better qualify materials to began with?

Now if I beat the hell out of something, that high perf shock should outlast the lesser shock but may need to be rebuilt after a certain period. The Top Fuel dragster scenario seems to illustrate that to a certain point...you are pushing that engine to its extreme limits...ready to blow at any time to eke out that edge. Driving down the highway and easy/moderate trails shouldn't stress high perk shocks.

Again, I'm looking at the Bilstein 6112/5160 as they should provide me what I'm looking for at a better cost point...just wanted to better understand the durability of higher end shocks for what the majority of users will probably use them for. Yes, some will need the performance of a high end shock and the need to rebuild due to the stress placed on them.

I

 

[Flahart]

Any shock on the market is going to be needing to be replaced or rebuilt at 50K. I have rebuilt hundreds of shocks, all brands, over the years and 40-50K is the max you will get out of the oil before it needs to be changed. If you're running a 2.0 the service interval needs to be cut in half.

You change the oil in your engine? Transmission? Diffs? why not keep up on the maintenance of your shocks too? The people that let a 2.5 Coilovers go for 60-80-100K without any service usually pay 3X-4X the normal rebuild cost to replace shafts, bodies, rod ends, wear bands, seal heads because they didn't have the work done at regular intervals.

 

[cheeser]

You change the oil in your engine? Transmission? Diffs? why not keep up on the maintenance of your shocks too.

If that is the expected service interval at a certain workload, then I can't disagree with you.

The difference is in how much more difficult it is to service shocks vs your engine/diff/trans and how long your vehicle may be down if you can't service them yourself.

In addition, I'm not replacing seals n such for my engine and diffs...just the lube. Now if there was any easier way to change the shock oil and pressurize the shock, that would be great.

In the end, if we buy equipment that needs to be serviced at certain time intervals, then that's just another thing we need to do.

 

[fordracing19]

I went Icon 2.5 after my junk ass Toytec Bilsteins leaked and bent within 6 months.

 

[gundrted+t4r]

All the points are spot on.

I see the same comments adventure Motorcycle forums. People buy Ohlins shocks and don't rebuild then for 20k (service schedule is 12k). They wonder way rebuild costs over half the price of the shock. I bought Wilbers because the 25k service intervals and heavy duty seals.

Rebuilding is great if you can handle the down time and service intervals.

Personally I think it is a pain in the butt. When I get shocks I'm going with non rebuilding and just plan to change then every 50-70k. I can't have my car down for 2 weeks or more. My motorcycle ... Sure.

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