Why the love for a manual trans for offroad?

[RonMAIDEN]

I'd prefer a 5 speed like my '97 was but the '99 I came across and with the model and options I wanted I wasn't passing up in hopes of a similar 5 speed so switching to an auto didn't bother me and the auto does make off roading (crawling) a bit easier and I can keep my mind free to do stuff like eating, texting, shaving, applying make-up, reading a book. :blabla:

But with a sports car it's manual or nothing since I like to feel more connected to a car when I'm pushing it near it's limits. The 4Runner is the only automatic I've owned in my life.

 

[nevada]

I wheeled a manual for years, and did well and I liked it. then I swapped engines, and got an auto. I didn't like it. as it turned out, it wasn't set up just right. by IT I mean the engine, the transmission was fine.

once I got a good carb, and had the exhaust redone, the auto works GREAT. I wouldn't want anything else.

that said, for wheeling with an auto, MY OPINION, it takes a larger engine, or more torque than with a manual. once you have a good set up with an auto you will LOVE it.

 

[BrianSD_42]

My automatic trans is awesome.

Still running great at 220k miles (knock on wood!)

 

[EatonKyleH]

As stated many times over each has advantages and disadvantages.

I've got a 5-speed. Every vehicle I've ever owned has been a 5-speed, I prefer working on manual transmissions, and have more faith that it will get me there and home again in at least one or more of those gears if it came to that.

Honestly when out wheeling though, the automatic boys have to put in way less effort and I'll admit I get a tad envious.

But at the same time my love for the manual transmission goes back to being a kid, learning to drive dad's old manual frustrated in a parking lot, then over the years feeling like I've learned the machine and it's learned me. To me the challenge and the connection to the vehicle a 5-speed makes me feel is worth the frustration it sometimes also brings with it. Like any good relationship.

And really... what I want out of wheeling is a challenge as a driver I don't think I'd do it if everything near me was too easy and had to drive very far to challenge myself.

 

[Kraze]

As stated many times over each has advantages and disadvantages.

I've got a 5-speed. Every vehicle I've ever owned has been a 5-speed, I prefer working on manual transmissions, and have more faith that it will get me there and home again in at least one or more of those gears if it came to that.

Honestly when out wheeling though, the automatic boys have to put in way less effort and I'll admit I get a tad envious.

But at the same time my love for the manual transmission goes back to being a kid, learning to drive dad's old manual frustrated in a parking lot, then over the years feeling like I've learned the machine and it's learned me. To me the challenge and the connection to the vehicle a 5-speed makes me feel is worth the frustration it sometimes also brings with it. Like any good relationship.

And really... what I want out of wheeling is a challenge as a driver I don't think I'd do it if everything near me was too easy and had to drive very far to challenge myself.

Very well said. That pretty much sums up how I feel, you just did it a lot more eloquently haha.

 

[rideexileex]

Or lets put it this way - I've seen more people slip, get close to tipping/rolling, lose a line, etc with a manual (and no crawl box) due to rolling or having to gun the throttle a bit on inclines than I ever have with people with autos. That, and many kills/stalls and retries, ha. I've "stalled" my auto one time ever, and that was on hummer hill in Moab. The autos just have that extra bit of control for the crawling speeds.

 

[rideexileex]

If the driver is lurching, rolling back, etc. that goes back to driving a manual transmission competently.

None of those concerns are a problem, if the driver knows how to drive a manual transmission.

Most people don't want to be bothered to learn those driving skills. That's why there are fewer manual transmission equipped new vehicles available every year.

I agree with this, until decent inclines are encountered, and made only worse by slick surfaces.

 

[rideexileex]

3 posts in a row now, but what I think is missing from this discussion is that the manual, when in front of a crawl box or two, with extreme crawl ratio, has the ability to be put back in neutral, which the auto cannot. On the auto, it becomes the brakes vs torque converter and whatever XXX to 1 crawl ratio

 

[white_n_slow]

I will say that for base configuration vehicles/4runners and the aspect of "crawling", the auto is superior for the simple fact that the driver is able to two foot and begin movement without slip.

Just to say it: You can do this with a manual too, it just takes more work.

My first rig was a '84 mini-truck with a carb'd 22r, which would stall whenever you pointed it up hill. I got very good at using all three pedals at once. Not to mention before I started wheeling, I came from a racing background (autocross and track days), so using the gas, the brake and the clutch all at the same time was not a foreign concept to me.

I will say that it is definitely a pain the the arse sometimes. The amount of concentration and effort it takes to crawl a foot, stop, redirect the front tires, crawl another foot, back up 6 inches, turn, crawl three feet all without falling off a step can be a little exhausting. But I don't mind.

Which brings me back to my original point. I think it's all a matter of preference. I wouldn't want to give up my 5-speed for highway/mountain driving unless I had a supercharger I sometimes get envious of my buddies with autos on the trail, but not very often.

 

[rideexileex]

Ha, yeah there is the whole aspect of heel-toe that can be thrown in there... and the hand throttle addition too.

But I think the win point occurs with the crawl box

 

[steezemcqueen]

But I think the win point occurs with the crawl box

:spy:

 

[nevada]

3 posts in a row now, but what I think is missing from this discussion is that the manual, when in front of a crawl box or two, with extreme crawl ratio, has the ability to be put back in neutral, which the auto cannot. On the auto, it becomes the brakes vs torque converter and whatever XXX to 1 crawl ratio

what am I missing here?
you can pop the auto in neutral.

I agree its not nearly as easy/convenient as just pushing the clutch in, but it can be done.

also, running double low, 2wd with 5.29's and a v8/ auto...yeh you have to put it in neutral to stop. :heh:

 

[rideexileex]

I agree its not nearly as easy/convenient as just pushing the clutch in, but it can be done.

This is the point I was getting at... I was just addressing the practicality part, not the technicality. I'd hate to be shifting between neutral and D/3/2/1 all day

 

[nevada]

This is the point I was getting at... I was just addressing the practicality part, not the technicality. I'd hate to be shifting between neutral and D/3/2/1 all day

for my wheeler, its usually just between first and reverse. but its only a 3 speed, so its not too bad. lol.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I don't spend all day shifting my tranny around even off road since once in low it's still in D. I can't ever recall shifting down with the auto but on road I do turn off the overdrive from time to time for a little extra punch.

 

[02SE]

I have a couple questions for you. Would you agree that being competent at a manual on the road is different than being competent at a manual on steep, rocky terrain?

Yes.

How long do you think it took you to become what you consider competent at driving manuals in any terrain?

It's been so long ago, I don't recall exactly. I would hang out at an auto repair garage when I was a kid. The Mechanics would let me tinker with old parts, take them apart, and put them back together to see how they worked. So I'd rebuilt engines, transmissions, etc. before I ever got my drivers license. So I had a good understanding of how they and the rest of a vehicle works, before I ever drove one. So, maybe a couple weeks.

And do you ever feel that there are places you can go in your vehicle with a manual that you simply would not be able to make it if you had an automatic?

Yes, a couple of steep slippery descents come to mind. Low-range 1st gear in the auto was too fast, and touching the brakes even slightly sent the vehicle into an uncontrolled slide. A bit of paint damage on the bumper that time. The same hill the next day in the manual 4Runner, 1st gear low-range was much more controlled, and no damage resulted. The hill seemed to be equally slippery from the first day to the next, and both the FZJ80 and 4Runner were running the same tire (slightly different sizes) at the time.

I've been driving manuals since I first learned how to drive, and I'd say I'm more than competent on the street. But once you get to steep terrain and big rocks, the skill set is very different.

It definitely takes more skill to drive a manual on rough terrain, than driving around on city streets.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm still not good at it, and that I would be a far more capable driver, for the places I wheel, if I was in an automatic.

Lots of people agree with you, that's why the manuals are becoming extinct.

 

[nevada]

I know this thread is about manuals, but I just thought of another reason autos are better offroad. they are MUCH more drivetrain friendly.

they are a buffer so the drivetrain doesn't see the part-breaking shock.

if you're a chronic driveline/u-joint/rear-end breaker with a manual, swap to an auto and you'll save parts.

 

[steezemcqueen]

I know this thread is about manuals, but I just thought of another reason autos are better offroad. they are MUCH more drivetrain friendly.

they are a buffer so the drivetrain doesn't see the part-breaking shock.

if you're a chronic driveline/u-joint/rear-end breaker with a manual, swap to an auto and you'll save parts.

True in theory but not in reality. I normally wheel with about 6-8 other 3rd gens. Out of all of them, the auto ones have broken almost 25 CV's between 2 rigs. The manual rigs have only broken 1 or 2 (3 rigs i think).

And yes same trails/lines/etc.

As long as you have clutch control and don't just dump the clutch when you want to get moving, i don't think the stress is any higher with a manual. In fact its lower from the axle count

 

[nevada]

True in theory but not in reality. I normally wheel with about 6-8 other 3rd gens. Out of all of them, the auto ones have broken almost 25 CV's between 2 rigs. The manual rigs have only broken 1 or 2 (3 rigs i think).

And yes same trails/lines/etc.

As long as you have clutch control and don't just dump the clutch when you want to get moving, i don't think the stress is any higher with a manual. In fact its lower from the axle count

maybe your small sample yes, but it is true in reality as well. its just physics, you cant get around it. autos are much easier on the drivetrain.

 

[RubiconBob]

My daily driver work truck is a 5 speed tacoma. My 4runner is auto. That being said, most off roading here is on the beach including the Cape cod National seashore. Automatics are far superior when air downed tires and momentum are bogged down in sugar sand and pea stone. Its not possible to manually shift as fast as an automatic.