Wilwood big brake kits

[Ed_C]

Wilwood released their own big brake kits Wilwood Disc Brakes - 2005 Toyota 4Runner All - Front Brake Kit No.: 140-14577-DR:
- Two different rotor sizes, 12.88" and 14 in either slotted or drilled + slotted
- 6-piston calipers, same ones regardless of rotor size
- List price is a little over $1850 and change but Summit Racing and Jegs has the 12.88" slotted rotor kits for $1520 and change.

Unlike the RR Racing kit that also uses Wilwood calipers (different line, too Aero6 vs Superlite) Wiwood's kits come standard with brake lines and their own 2-piece rotors instead of 5th-gen spec (but not OEM Toyota) rotors.

 

[Bumbo]

Seen them… want them… but that price tag haha… still trying to get over it.

Even with the smaller of the two OEM rotors and a 32” tire, I still feel like my breaking performance is pretty decent.

I think if I ever jumped into a LT kit with a 35+ inch tire, I would look at this more seriously. Still concerned about break balance between front and rear.

 

[sumday]

ive had to replace my front calipers and rotors but the calipers have a lifetime warranty. oem are 4 piston calipers which i thought was cool until i had to replace them. $1500+ not for me but its nice to know they make it. my feeling wilwood figured out it fits 4runners instead of making an exclusive kit

is it me or my rears wear out faster than the fronts?

 

[Ed_C]

my feeling wilwood figured out it fits 4runners instead of making an exclusive kit

Say again? :noidea:

 

[trd_v8_sport]

is it me or my rears wear out faster than the fronts?

...about 50/50 here. the thing to keep in mind is when the traction kicks on it "brakes" the rear wheels first along with killing power etc..so if you live in the snow belt and your traction control kicks on alot that could be a factor.

 

[sumday]

the caliper is prolly a stock caliper used in many different applications. looks like they made an adapter to bolt it on. same with rotors...two piece to adapt to many more applications.

so it applies 50/50? wear rates the same?

i feel like the rears grab first and need to replace the rear pads 2 to 1 compared to front.

 

[Ed_C]

the caliper is prolly a stock caliper used in many different applications. looks like they made an adapter to bolt it on. same with rotors...two piece to adapt to many more applications.

Umm yeah that's how practically every aftermarket brake kit manufacturer puts together a big brake kit. They're not going to produce a 4Runner specific caliper that bolts directly to the spindle. TRD's big brake kits are manufactured by Stoptech and guess what, they also use an adaptor bracket and hats to use their existing calipers and rotors.

 

[SAC-CA-Runner]

I've always preferred Stoptech over Willwood, even in my Audi days of tracking. And while some might laugh at the price tag, once your rig is loaded up and youcare coming down some steep trails and or mtn passes, you'll be glad you got them. It's probably one of the best mods I've done on my truck. The stock front Sport brakes couldn't keep up. Stoptech from @sosperformance FTW!

 

[Bumbo]

I've always preferred Stoptech over Willwood, even in my Audi days of tracking. And while some might laugh at the price tag, once your rig is loaded up and youcare coming down some steep trails and or mtn passes, you'll be glad you got them. It's probably one of the best mods I've done on my truck. The stock front Sport brakes couldn't keep up. Stoptech from @sosperformance FTW!

Did the big rotors mess up any of the front rear brake bias / balance?

Did you do anything for your rear brakes?

 

[SAC-CA-Runner]

Did the big rotors mess up any of the front rear brake bias / balance?

Did you do anything for your rear brakes?

Nope. If anything it is better controlled. I did add 5th Gen rear calipers on it as it has a slightly bigger piston, but that is it. Uses the same pads and rotors as the 4th Gen Sport. With all the armor, tent, rack, drawer system, larger tires...I'm sooooo glad I did it. It's worth the money IMHO.

 

[JoeToyota]

What makes people think they need to upgrade their brakes in these trucks? I guarantee your stock brakes can out-brake your tires and cause the ABS to come on, or if abs is disabled you'll lock them tires right up. You could probably lock up a set of track slicks with most OEM brakes to be honest. If you can lock up tires what does that say about your brakes? Your truck doesn't lock them up? Different pads would fix that.

The fixed calipers that these trucks use OEM combat the most common problem that floating calipers present and that is uneven pad wear (inner/outer). So why do we need bigger brakes?

The grand issue with brakes in track applications (or maybe very very high load towing relative to the trucks capabilities through mountains) is heat - from constantly hammering on the brakes at high speeds to drastically slow the vehicle down. That's basically it.

Do you guys find that your brakes fade due to prolonged heat exposure? If so I'm wondering what road-course track you race your 4runner at and then I would suggest you consider upgrading pad compounds maybe also rotors and you'll be set.

Stoptech makes great calipers, for dedicated heavy use track brakes they are up there with the best brands. Wilwood - occasional road-course use, drag-racers, and looks.

 

[Formidable]

Good post. I have a 1400 whp Nissan GTR and upgraded the stock brembos to racing brake calipers and carbon ceramic rotors... Not because I track the car a bunch, (probably best to stick with iron rotors in that case), but because I wanted more in terms of lightening the vehicle’s rotational weight, and SLOWING the vehicle down from speed, (I’m often in the 160 mph+ range). You’re right in the sense that emergency braking and stopping is more a function of your tire, contact patch, and your ABS. Once your ABS kicks in or you lock up the tires, no big brake system is going to offer you any significant advantage over stock. The reason people upgrade is to slow the vehicle down from speed... Obviously, your ability to slow the vehicle down has a huge impact on where your brake zone is and resultant entrance speed into any turn regardless if you are on or off the track.

I don’t think anyone here is ripping a 4Runner around a track. But the same progressive feel of a bigger brake system and it’s effects on SLOWING the vehicle can be appreciated on the road... especially when the rig is fitted with trail armor, gear, and towing a 4K lb trailer.

What makes people think they need to upgrade their brakes in these trucks? I guarantee your stock brakes can out-brake your tires and cause the ABS to come on, or if abs is disabled you'll lock them tires right up. You could probably lock up a set of track slicks with most OEM brakes to be honest. If you can lock up tires what does that say about your brakes? Your truck doesn't lock them up? Different pads would fix that.

The fixed calipers that these trucks use OEM combat the most common problem that floating calipers present and that is uneven pad wear (inner/outer). So why do we need bigger brakes?

The grand issue with brakes in track applications (or maybe very very high load towing relative to the trucks capabilities through mountains) is heat - from constantly hammering on the brakes at high speeds to drastically slow the vehicle down. That's basically it.

Do you guys find that your brakes fade due to prolonged heat exposure? If so I'm wondering what road-course track you race your 4runner at and then I would suggest you consider upgrading pad compounds and you'll be set.

Stoptech makes great calipers, for dedicated heavy use track brakes they are up there with the best brands. Wilwood - occasional road-course use, drag-racers, and looks.

 

[JoeToyota]

Good post. I have a 1400 whp Nissan GTR and upgraded the stock brembos to racing brake calipers and carbon ceramic rotors... Not because I track the car a bunch, (probably best to stick with iron rotors in that case), but because I wanted more in terms of lightening the vehicle’s rotational weight, and SLOWING the vehicle down from speed, (I’m often in the 160 mph+ range). You’re right in the sense that emergency braking and stopping is more a function of your tire, contact patch, and your ABS. Once your ABS kicks in or you lock up the tires, no big brake system is going to offer you any significant advantage over stock. The reason people upgrade is to slow the vehicle down from speed... Obviously, your ability to slow the vehicle down has a huge impact on where your brake zone is and resultant entrance speed into any turn regardless if you are on or off the track.

I don’t think anyone here is ripping a 4Runner around a track. But the same progressive feel of a bigger brake system and it’s effects on SLOWING the vehicle can be appreciated on the road... especially when the rig is fitted with trail armor, gear, and towing a 4K lb trailer.

You talk about slowing the car down faster. Take a floating 2 piston caliper and a fancy 4 piston fixed position caliper and give them the same size and make pads and rotors (make pad type and diameter of rotor the same). If you use the same amount of force on the pedal then how much faster will the fancy caliper stop the vehicle for 1 stop? It really wont. How about 8 stops in succession? Maybe... I repeat the only benefits you will get out of the fancier 4 piston fixed position caliper is dealing with heat and pad wear, to put it simply. Most big fancy brake kits are heavier then stock brake kits. Why? Size. Surface area = Heat dissipation.

Are people having heat issues with their properly functioning stock brakes? Have they flushed their brake fluid with high temp fluid, and then tried high temp brake pads? If so then installing proper cooling will do miles over spending thousands on brakes.

Having a larger diameter rotor is a benefit for all of the above, yes. But the size is limited to the wheel, and like I've already said - odds are it's your tires that will decide how fast you will or wont brake.

 

[Formidable]

I don’t think anyone is refuting your heat dissipation point. You asked why people upgrade. It’s not to improve stopping under emergency conditions. Its not for heat dissipation either. Again, it’s to slow the vehicle down from speed. Larger rotors, bigger calipers, bigger pads, more pistons, translates to improvement in braking performance period.

Of note, the rotors the OP linked have aluminum hats. They are larger and probably weigh less than stock.

You talk about slowing the car down faster. Take a floating 2 piston caliper and a fancy 4 piston fixed position caliper and give them the same size and make pads and rotors (make contact area and diameter of rotor the same). If you use the same amount of force on the pedal then how much faster will the fancy caliper stop the vehicle for 1 stop? It really wont. How about 8 stops in succession? Maybe... I repeat the only benefits you will get out of the fancier 4 piston fixed position caliper is dealing with heat and pad wear, to put it simply. Most big fancy brake kits are heavier then stock brake kits. Why? Size. Surface area = Heat dissipation.

Are people having heat issues with their properly functioning stock brakes? Have they flushed their brake fluid with high temp fluid, and then tried high temp brake pads? If so then installing proper cooling will do miles over spending thousands on brakes.

Having a larger diameter rotor is a benefit for all of the above, yes. But the size is limited to the wheel, and like I've already said - odds are it's your tires that will decide how fast you will or wont brake.

 

[Ed_C]

Yeah I'm not refuting or disputing him either, maybe he's just trying to get his post count up quickly and/or likes beating a dead horse, guy must be fun at parties :laugh:

Thankfully there's an ignore feature on this forum :tongue1:

 

[Bumbo]

Not my personal experience, I don’t have a big brake kit, or really change up brakes on anything I own yet…

I have a friend who owns a Tacoma and wheels pretty aggressively… and he upgraded to some Tundra brakes and reported a noticeable increase in performance / holding power.

Anza Borrego on the Heart Attack hill he was “standing on his brakes” with the old setup and requires less effort now to do the same.

Even if I was to think about leverage, and the increased size of the rotor, you essentially have more leverage / holding power per wheel. From that physics standpoint, I can understand why someone would want larger brakes or why it would increase performance. The thermal envelop standpoint also makes plenty of sense to me too.

Again, not my personal experience, but I can see how this would be true.

 

[Inv4drZm]

My perspective; since you can already lock up the tires on dry concrete, I've done it before even with 35's, a 'big brake kit' won't stop you faster. Braking is a function of the ABS system, tires/tread compound, and vehicle weight. Nothing more.

However, I've noticed brake fade on my truck. Only when driving down Colorado mountains, and I have the larger sport brakes and used transmission downshifting where possible. For those times larger/cooler brakes would help. Making sure you have good fluid and pads would probably help too.

Peace of mind with beefier components and SS pistons that might help with seizing issues are also pluses.

 

[JoeToyota]

Maybe he's just trying to get his post count up quickly

I have a friend who owns a Tacoma and wheels pretty aggressively… and he upgraded to some Tundra brakes and reported a noticeable increase in performance / holding power.

Anza Borrego on the Heart Attack hill he was “standing on his brakes” with the old setup and requires less effort now to do the same.

Even if I was to think about leverage, and the increased size of the rotor, you essentially have more leverage / holding power per wheel. From that physics standpoint, I can understand why someone would want larger brakes or why it would increase performance.

If he increased his rotor size then sure it would require less effort on his pedal to achieve the same torque. How much less effort? Not much - pad type will make much more of a difference.

Did he upgrade his brake lines? New fluid? Different set of pads?

Again, it’s to slow the vehicle down from speed. Larger rotors, bigger calipers, bigger pads, more pistons, translates to improvement in braking performance period.

Of note, the rotors the OP linked have aluminum hats. They are larger and probably weigh less than stock.

OK I'll spell it out then.

PISTON COUNT does not improve stopping power - it simply distributes the same force more evenly.

BRAKE PAD SIZE also does not effect stopping power. The coefficient of friction law does not rely on the surface area of the materials involved; only with the type of materials involved. Increased pad size is to improve heat dissipation. Remember what I said about pad type - friction.

How much less stopping distance does a 20mm larger rotor gain from 80-0 mph stand-on-brakes stop? I don't want to do the math to be honest, but with perfect traction (not gonna happen) it would be about a half a foot on your coupe. Since you wont have perfect traction on street tires on the street, distance will come down to tires and vehicle safety systems. Not rotor size.

The rotor hats might weigh less, but the rotor itself and the calipers are heavier. That's the point. They better deal with heat that way. You increase un-sprung weight by adding heavier big brakes - which is a performance deficit. Every pound un-sprung is equal to about 10 pounds extra cabin weight that your suspension has to deal with over every bump.

Yes your improving braking "performance" if you get a larger set of brakes. But what is the point if the performance being gained is not even usable. What I am saying is you will exceed your tires capabilities before your brakes unless your constantly hammering on your brakes consistently in a short period of time. Anything in between is just your perception of pedal firmness and feel.

I know it's hard to believe that the big brake kits used on racing vehicles won’t increase stopping power on their own street vehicles as well. Sorry.

Yeah yeah call me a drag, sure. I'm trying to help people understand the functionality of their OEM brake performance and hopefully help save people from spending A LOT of money where it's absolutely not necessary from a "performance" stand-point in a place where people come together for technical discussion, not a party.

 

[Formidable]

I read your posts over again. We seem to be saying the same things. We agree that there is no benefit during stand on the brakes emergency braking.

If he increased his rotor size then sure it would require less effort on his pedal to achieve the same torque. How much less effort? Not much - pad type will make more of a difference.

Did he upgrade his brake lines? New fluid? Different set of pads?




OK I'll spell it out then.

PISTON COUNT does not improve stopping power - it simply distributes the same force more evenly.

BRAKE PAD SIZE also does not effect stopping power. The coefficient of friction law does not rely on the surface area of the materials involved; only with the type of materials involved. Increased pad size is to improve heat dissipation. Remember what I said about pad type - friction.

How much less stopping distance does a 20mm larger rotor gain from 80-0 mph stand-on-brakes stop? I don't want to do the math to be honest, but with perfect traction (not gonna happen) it would it would be about a half a foot on your coupe. Since you wont have perfect traction on street tires on the street, distance will come down to tires and vehicle safety systems. Not rotor size.

The rotor hats might weigh less, but the rotor itself and the calipers are heavier. That's the point. They better deal with heat that way. You increase un-sprung weight by adding heavier big brakes - which is a performance deficit. Every pound un-sprung is equal to about 10 pounds extra cabin weight that your suspension has to deal with over every bump.

Yes your improving braking "performance" if you get a larger set of brakes. But what is the point if the performance being gained is not even usable. What I am saying is you will exceed your tires capabilities before your brakes unless your constantly hammering on your brakes consistently in a short period of time. Anything in between is just your perception of pedal firmness and feel.

I know it's hard to believe that the big brake kits used on racing vehicles won’t increase stopping power on their own street vehicles as well. Sorry.

Yeah yeah call me a drag, sure. I'm trying to help people understand the functionality of their OEM brake performance and hopefully help save people from spending A LOT of money where it's absolutely not necessary from a "performance" stand-point.

 

[JoeToyota]

............SLOWING the vehicle down from speed...........

.....The reason people upgrade is to slow the vehicle down from speed...

.....Obviously, your ability to slow the vehicle down has a huge impact on where your brake zone is and resultant entrance speed into any turn regardless if you are on or off the track......

.....progressive feel of a bigger brake system and it’s effects on SLOWING the vehicle can be appreciated on the road... especially when the rig is fitted with trail armor, gear, and towing a 4K lb trailer......

......It’s not to improve stopping under emergency conditions. Its not for heat dissipation either. Again, it’s to slow the vehicle down from speed. Larger rotors, bigger calipers, bigger pads, more pistons, translates to improvement in braking performance period.

Your words here give the impression that you will stop faster with bigger brakes on some hypothetical corner and that's why people upgrade. Am I wrong?

I am saying that they wont stop your car faster due to every single reason I've already mentioned. Summary: Effectively if you don't do it for heat dissipation then you are doing it for looks and pedal feel. Simple as that.