Winch Power Paranoid?

Mooney

Mooney

New member
Looking at the installation instructions of my new Warn I surprised to see the diagram showing a direct connection of 4 gauge wire from winch to battery.

Shocked I called the install shop in my area and explained I purchased the factory Toyota interior switch to cut power to the winch when its not being utilized. I asked if they had relay that could handle 500+amps. He replied "we don't use relays, the winch is hooked directly to the battery." :pray: I asked if he saw a possible safety issue with a large gauge wire going to the front bumper of the vehicle with no fuse or circuit breaker. He followed my thinking, but repeated "we hook them directly to the battery.":frusty:

With that I decided to call Warn directly, only to find they "have been doing it this way for 70 years and it hasn't been a problem." :first: I asked, nobody has been in an accident with the live wire on the edge of the bumper just waiting to contact ANY metal for an instant problem? "Nope," but he followed my thinking then said I would need a big switch to handle the current. :jaw:

What's everyone else doing . . . am I the only one trying to buck "Warns 70 years of success?":noidea:
 
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Short answer: yes, you're the only one. ; )
It should be no surprise the winch requires the heavy gauge cable considering the amperage it's pulling from a 12volt source.
Yes, a fused and switchable power supply to the winch would be safer but the cost, availability, and size of those components make them undesirable given the risk you're trying to mitigate.
Consider that on most vehicles you also have hot, 12volt, unswitched wires elsewhere under the hood so in theory it's no different than your battery-to-starter solenoid wire for instance.
 
Like you, I find it hard to believe Warn has been doing this for 70 years without a problem!
There is absolutely no way I would wire it direct!
Minimum requirement would be a suitably sized ANL fuse and a high current battery disconnect.
 
High_Country said:
Yes, a fused and switchable power supply to the winch would be safer but the cost, availability, and size of those components make them undesirable given the risk you're trying to mitigate.
Click to expand...

Disagree - unless you consider an uncontrolled arc welder loose under the hood to be a minor risk, not worth mitigating. This is what you have if a connection corrodes or breaks off.

This is a case of: "It has always been done like this - why change?"
It is the same on a boat - for years they have not required a fuse on the starter circuit. Years ago, suitable and affordable large calibre fuses were simply not available to the average boater, so we just accepted the risk, and did our best to manage it. Nowadays, you will find many marine electricians installing a fuse right at the cranking battery.
Since the technology exists to help avert disaster, why would you not use it?

Confession time: - the starter wire on my Runner is still unfused! (on my list!)
 
I have relocated batteries to the trunk a few times.

I usually use something like this (usually 2), but one should work for the winch draw. It's best to be safe.

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...-4&keywords=blue+sea+systems+DC+power+breaker

I would zip tie to the batt itself and use really good lugs and wire. Avoid as much additional resistance as possible.

Wiring direct is probably safe 99% of the time with a properly shielded wire.

The motor on the winch itself will double disconnect when not running (no ground or power is is in contact)
 
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jcoleman said:
I've never personally wired a winch with anything but a straight lead to the battery, but Warn does actually offer a "power interrupt kit":
https://www.warn.com/truck/accessories/power_interrupt.shtml

They're a little vague on specs...
Click to expand...

Raven said:
Disagree - unless you consider an uncontrolled arc welder loose under the hood to be a minor risk, not worth mitigating. This is what you have if a connection corrodes or breaks off.

This is a case of: "It has always been done like this - why change?"
It is the same on a boat - for years they have not required a fuse on the starter circuit. Years ago, suitable and affordable large calibre fuses were simply not available to the average boater, so we just accepted the risk, and did our best to manage it. Nowadays, you will find many marine electricians installing a fuse right at the cranking battery.
Since the technology exists to help avert disaster, why would you not use it?

Confession time: - the starter wire on my Runner is still unfused! (on my list!)
Click to expand...

In my world there is this little thing called "acceptable risk." If you are worried about a live wire in the event of an accident please don't ponder your brake system or especially the abuse your tire sees when you hit a pothole at 70 mph.
Acceptable risk gentlemen. You do realize we would be much safer if we had a five point harness and wore helmets right?
 
jcoleman said:
I've never personally wired a winch with anything but a straight lead to the battery, but Warn does actually offer a "power interrupt kit":
https://www.warn.com/truck/accessories/power_interrupt.shtml

They're a little vague on specs...
Click to expand...

wfo9 said:
I have relocated batteries to the trunk a few times.

I usually use something like this (usually 2), but one should work for the winch draw. It's best to be safe.

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...-4&keywords=blue+sea+systems+DC+power+breaker

I would zip tie to the batt itself and use really good lugs and wire. Avoid as much additional resistance as possible.

Wiring direct is probably safe 99% of the time with a properly shielded wire.

The motor on the winch itself will double disconnect when not running (no ground or power is is in contact)
Click to expand...

I haven't used Warn's kit but I have pieced some together just like it. Nothing more than a heavy duty 100% duty cycle starter solenoid. I've also installed circuit breakers like the one above for people as well but never for myself. Of course, I've never had an issue just going direct to the battery either. It's really up to you on how you want to wire it. If you do use the solenoid and/or circuit breaker, be sure to carry a jumper wire in case either component fails when you need it most.
 
I fully agree with the concept of acceptable risk. I mean, if we worry about every possible bad thing that might happen, we should stay in the house 24/7. (and, we are not necessarily safe there either!)

On the other hand ....... $24 for the Blue Sea Marine Battery Disconnect, series m. (300A continuous / 500A for 5 minutes / 775A for 1 minute)

Also, series e. (350A continuous / 600A for 5 minutes)

HD series: (600A continous / 900A for 5 minutes)

So, I don't think I'd worry much if the thing is properly wired anyway, but I'll worry LESS after installing a cheap switch.

ps., Blue Sea also provides quality ANL fuses up to 750 Amp rating.

The Warn 9000 can draw up to 478 Amps under load.
 
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Its a cost vs. risk thing really. Most of the time the bumpers the winches are mounted to take up far more abuse than any normal bumper would. Which I would imagine means that there's little to no chance the cable gets severed if routed properly because the bumper will absorb much of any deformation (at least I am guessing this is their theory.)

If you're that scared about it, install a ground interrupt circuit that will sever in the event of an impact 35mph or higher. also make sure the Negative Terminal on the cut side of the ground interrupt circuit is completely enclosed and protected from damage.
 
I have been looking into my options here as well and I feel the same way. I would love to be able to fuse/ switch the winch power. My winch came with simple main manual On/Off switch.

In looking at an in cab switch, I found this 500 amp relay that should work depending on the winch.

Blue Sea also sells a 300A fuse block terminal, but I don't think 300Amp is near enough. See here and here. These could be handy for battery isolaters/ controllers.

:cheers:

ADVnut
 
ADVnut said:
Blue Sea also sells a 300A fuse block terminal, but I don't think 300Amp is near enough.
Click to expand...

Blue Sea 5004/5005 max 300A

Blue Sea 5503 max 750A

The higher capacity fuse block is a little pricy at $36, but very good quality. Also, the terminal studs are independent of the fuse studs (4 studs, 2 for the fuse, and 2 for the cables) It will accept up to #4 AWG cable.
 
As 1engineer and BlackWorks have pointed out, it all comes down to risk management, and what level of risk comfort an individual has.

So now, those of us installing winches can make our own decision, but at least the forum members not too sure about this electrical stuff now have some info, and some options.
And that is what this forum is all about. The internet causes enough problems - isn't it great when it can help us?!
 
I would run the breaker personally. I had 1 on my old prerunner when a shop relocated the battery when it interfered with my shock hoops. If you ever forget to turn the switch off it will still be vulnerable to an accident. I had an electrical short before while driving. It is not work the risk for $50.00.
 
Lots of good responses here with available products. I had another thought while reading through them:

As a cheaper (read: free) alternative, a guy could always just leave his winch power lead disconnected at the battery when he was daily driving back and forth to work, starbucks, and daycare. When hitting the trails, you could hook it up. Or, heck, as simple as it is, keep it disconnected until such time as you need it. I mean, it takes what, 1.5 minutes to pop the hood and connect the lead?

This would be the safest, most reliable (no parts to fail), and simplest method (while recognizing its not the most convenient).
 
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Great info everyone . . . some great ideas, suggestions and links to reasonable parts.

1E . . . "Acceptable risk," exactly! Purchasing and installing the winch is risk mitigation.

The reason I'm so focused on this is the related to the specific area the line terminates . . . the bumper. Let's face it . . . vehicles have bumpers to collect and disipate energy in the event of a collision. Recently I saw an FJ on the dealers lot being sold (used) with some nice upgrades, including a winch. This FJ's winch had two connectors on the side with large gauge wire and plastic nut covers over the posts. It surprised me to see the metal shroud just a few inches away, however looking inside the truck had a master switch to power the unit.

It all comes down to 1E's original statement of "acceptable risk," it's differnt for each of us, I was eager to hear how others dealt with the install.

Not sure how I'm going to proceed, most likely let shop follow Warns suggestion, I'll possibly make changes myself after doing more research.
 
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