XREAS suspension
- Thread starter 084runner480
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DT04R
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084runner480
New member
Okay, I've got most of the mods installed.
Front springs are stock
Rear springs are ARB 2895, which I think is branded an OME
And the bilstien 5100, max length
Tires: Toyo AT 2, 265/70/18
Spider Trax wheel spacers
Before, after lift, then tires
Front springs are stock
Rear springs are ARB 2895, which I think is branded an OME
And the bilstien 5100, max length
Tires: Toyo AT 2, 265/70/18
Spider Trax wheel spacers
Before, after lift, then tires
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084runner480
New member
It rides slightly more stable with the wheel spacers installed. I'm still disunity these 5100s, I may just get a new xreas system installed later on.
Another option I'm considering is installing the thicker adco sway bars in the front and rear. I know these thicker sway bars will reduce body roll, but will they add more bounce to the ride?
Would these sway bars make the ride feel more bumpy or bouncy?
Another option I'm considering is installing the thicker adco sway bars in the front and rear. I know these thicker sway bars will reduce body roll, but will they add more bounce to the ride?
Would these sway bars make the ride feel more bumpy or bouncy?
DT04R
New member
Outstanding, the photos are extra helpful as well! The spacers look fantastic (well, the results of the spacers). I just did a spacer setup on my GT, amazing how much it changed how the car sits (when combined with lowering, etc.)
I can answer the swaybar question, at least in terms of performance car applications where I've done suspension work that included larger swaybars/endlinks/bushings (in some combination with shocks/springs/full coilovers).
The side-to-side "cross talk" becomes more pronounced, way more depending on the particulars. Smooth, uniform roads, highways, don't make a significant difference - uneven roads, speed bumps, anything that transfers movement and weight laterally, you'll feel it more.
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084runner480
New member
Thanks for the feed back, I figured that would be the result.
I'm noticing that the steering is less reponsive, at higher speeds. It's kind of hard to describe. Almost like I can move the steering wheel 1-2 inches either way and not much happens but then it all of a sudden pulls left or right.
It's like there is play in one of the steering components. It feels almost twitchy.
I'm thinking this is due to the lift. It's probably just the change in geometry however I notice it.
I also notice very small vibes in the gas pedal and the floor accelerating from a stop. They are very slight about 20-30 mph and 2000 rpm. Again, I think it's from the change in the axle angles.
Maybe others have noticed small vibes or steering changes after lifting?
I have the curse of noticing everything, the struggle is real.
I'm noticing that the steering is less reponsive, at higher speeds. It's kind of hard to describe. Almost like I can move the steering wheel 1-2 inches either way and not much happens but then it all of a sudden pulls left or right.
It's like there is play in one of the steering components. It feels almost twitchy.
I'm thinking this is due to the lift. It's probably just the change in geometry however I notice it.
I also notice very small vibes in the gas pedal and the floor accelerating from a stop. They are very slight about 20-30 mph and 2000 rpm. Again, I think it's from the change in the axle angles.
Maybe others have noticed small vibes or steering changes after lifting?
I have the curse of noticing everything, the struggle is real.
knowhutimean
New member
I ripped out my xreas earlier this week and got new shocks/coils in the rears and front. Went with 5100s and 885 in the front and 895 in the rear. Lowest perch in the front and used only springs for front lift. First day it drove bouncy like s truck but it's slowly settling down. Not stiff or sporty with this lift but I like the look and it will perform better off road. I also added new tires
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That much lift will reduce the caster to the low side of the spec, even with an alignment. That will cause the steering to be more vague and twitchy. It may take aftermarket UCA's to restore caster to > 3.5 degrees, which is what the 4runner seems to like for really stable tracking.
I have XREAS but if I do suspension lift I'll do 6112 with some rear shock, maybe ICON. It sounds like 5100 is underdamped.
I think XREAS rides ok, but it's also a bit soft. I'd like a bit more control, which a good monotube typically excels in. The 6112 is probably pretty good and I've heard good things about it.
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Maybe the ride with the 6112's and the rear Icon V2's turns out to be exactly what you like. It didn't turn out that way for me. I replaced my XREAS after 120,000 miles. I also swapped out my Firestone Destination AT's for the new Yokohama Geolander G015's.
My experience is that the ride is more truck like. It's like my 04 Tacoma Double Cab, much harsher and less...I dunno...luxurious in feel. Part of that could be the tires. The nose does dive more when braking and when I step on the gas my headlights are pointed at the moon.
The whole setup was the best I could afford at the time.
If money wasn't an object and knowing what I know now, I'd fix the XREAS or spend more on a better suspension setup with UCA. That's just me though wanting a comfortable on road commute and not worrying too much about off road at this point.
With luck maybe you can find someone near you with a similar setup and you can give it a test ride.
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084runner480
New member
Ronjr, can you expand a bit on what kind of UCA You are talking about? Like manufacture and model, and why ones better than the next?
And is the uca for sure the reason why it drives twitchy?
And is the uca for sure the reason why it drives twitchy?
First thing you should do is take it to an alignment shop and have them set the caster as high as they can get. That may take care of your issue, or at least help you understand it once you see the numbers.
JBA and SPC both make UCA's that will allow extra caster. There are others as well if you do some searching. I have the SPC's, and they've worked well for me. Really improved the steering feel.
JBA and SPC both make UCA's that will allow extra caster. There are others as well if you do some searching. I have the SPC's, and they've worked well for me. Really improved the steering feel.
084runner480
New member
Thanks for the advice on the caster, had to do some searching on that. I noticed it immediately after the lift but I thought it was because I had a completely new tire on the front, as a spare.
The shop aligned the truck already. I'll have to give them a call. It shows its set at 2.7 and 2.8. You're saying that I need at least 3.5 in order for it to track properly? If I cant get that then I'll need to look into the others you suggested.
I came across some posts that say I can adjust the LCA's in order to get caster optimal. Would that be something the shop may already know about during the next alignment?
This is interesting, my dads old blazer drove like this. Super squirrely and twitchy on the highway. I thought it was because of the short wheel base.
The shop aligned the truck already. I'll have to give them a call. It shows its set at 2.7 and 2.8. You're saying that I need at least 3.5 in order for it to track properly? If I cant get that then I'll need to look into the others you suggested.
I came across some posts that say I can adjust the LCA's in order to get caster optimal. Would that be something the shop may already know about during the next alignment?
This is interesting, my dads old blazer drove like this. Super squirrely and twitchy on the highway. I thought it was because of the short wheel base.
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Powder_Hound
New member
This will vary from vehicle to vehicle. The caster on my 04 was 2.5 with a spacer lift and I'm at 2.0 with my OME/Toytec + Camburg BJ UCA's and I think it drives just fine: no issues at 80 mph or when towing my 5000 lb TT. No complaints from my wife either and she normally drives a bone stock Acura MDX. With that said, I don't ever remember driving with caster >3.5 so I have no idea if it would drive better, but at 2.7 and 2.8 you are within Toyota spec it should drive better than you describe.
Moving from XREAS to any "enhanced" shocks/springs will result in a stiffer less sporty feel until you get used to the ride. Good luck in figuring out the squirlliness, but my guess is that it has to do more with the steering/suspension set up than your alignment. IMHO...
The Toyota spec is 2.5 deg to 4.0 deg, so at 2.7 deg you are on the bottom end. All else being equal, more caster results in greater steering stability and less wandering. People vary in their sensitivity and preferences in this regard as well, so you'll get differing opinions on what is the "best" setting. My personal experience with my '06 Sport is that, at 2.7 deg, it was drivable but it was more work to keep it going straight down the road than I preferred. It didn't track as well as my '94 4runner or my 2011 Juke. When I put on the SPC UCA's and bumped the caster up to 4 deg the change was remarkable. The vehicle now drives like it is on rails. Some may find the steering too heavy, but I like it this way.
Another rule of thumb is that, for every inch of front-only lift, you lose about .35 deg of caster. For every inch of both front and back lift you lose about .8 deg of caster. So, with a 2.5/1.5 lift, you will lose 1.5*.8+ 1*.35 = 1.55 degrees of caster. Your alignment tech can get some of that back, but with stock UCA's you typically run out of adjustment range at about 2.7-3 deg with that kind of a lift, so I suspect you're as far as you're going to get with your current setup.
Edit: One other thing. I notice your camber is +.3. The spec center is -.15, so you're toward the positive side of the spec there as well. That's not as critical, but it indicates to me that the alignment tech sacrificed camber in order to get your caster as high as he could. That's a pretty good indication that it will likely take aftermarket UCA's to get more caster.
Another rule of thumb is that, for every inch of front-only lift, you lose about .35 deg of caster. For every inch of both front and back lift you lose about .8 deg of caster. So, with a 2.5/1.5 lift, you will lose 1.5*.8+ 1*.35 = 1.55 degrees of caster. Your alignment tech can get some of that back, but with stock UCA's you typically run out of adjustment range at about 2.7-3 deg with that kind of a lift, so I suspect you're as far as you're going to get with your current setup.
Edit: One other thing. I notice your camber is +.3. The spec center is -.15, so you're toward the positive side of the spec there as well. That's not as critical, but it indicates to me that the alignment tech sacrificed camber in order to get your caster as high as he could. That's a pretty good indication that it will likely take aftermarket UCA's to get more caster.
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084runner480
New member
That's what the tech said this morning. Basically, he could get more caster, but it would throw the camber off. So, yeah..
knowhutimean
New member
For what its worth I plan on upgraded UCA's to push it to 3.5, im sitting at 2.5 degrees right now and have been told it will ride closer to original this way.
grave
Senior Member
it seems like most make it close to 150K. when you go look at the truck just check all the shocks & hydraulic lines and make sure there aren't any leaks.
