BrianSD_42
New member
anyone heard about this?
Your VW TDI might be a criminal
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Speedy Gomez
Banned
Oops. Explains why they get the killer mileage they do. It's a proven fact that all of the new diesels gain 3-4mpg once the emissions (urea injection, exhaust filter, egr, etc) are removed and the engines stay cleaner longer and oil stays newer longer without the crap. I'm all for a cleaner environment but I'm finding it difficult to believe that an engine that 20 years ago that was routinely knocking down 20-25mpg is worse than one that struggles to make 15-16mpg. I just can't wrap my head around how burning more fuel is better. I really can't.
IanB
New member
Emissions is BS in a lot of way, another example is "smog pumps" or air injection pumps. From what I can tell, they just pump extra air into the exhaust, to dilute the emissions for testing purposes. There is exactly no less pollutants coming out the tailpipe, just the concentration is affected.
The secondary air injection system (on VW and Audi's anyway) pumps air into the exhaust during cold start. On cold start it runs rich, the pump adds air to get the mixture back in check so the cat can burn it up cleaner and more completely and in doing so, it heats up the cat to operating temperature faster.
ProspectiveBuyer
New member
Holy ****. I feel like a total idiot for having so much respect for the integrity of the Germans. The great mileage of the diesel Golf TDI has always been favorably compared to the Prius', and was a convincing argument for many of my friends to purchase one (especially that they do come with manual transmission)
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Wow, they are in big trouble. BUT, like the bogus $1 Billion fine against GM (ridiculous considering the profits they have made), they will be fined and we will all move on. X factor is Europe. They are looking to investigate if they are cheating over there. Urghh........... what a mess.
I'm seeing that lots of diesel powered VW will loose their EPA certification. If true (kind of early to see if that happens), doesn't that mean the cars (already on the road) are now illegal?? Will they be allowed to continue to operate? Again, I'm thinking VW will be fined out the ass.......... I can't see them buying back cars.
Of course, I could be talking nonsense.........
it's a trainwreck, just can't stop watching no matter how much you really don't care.
I'm seeing that lots of diesel powered VW will loose their EPA certification. If true (kind of early to see if that happens), doesn't that mean the cars (already on the road) are now illegal?? Will they be allowed to continue to operate? Again, I'm thinking VW will be fined out the ass.......... I can't see them buying back cars.
Of course, I could be talking nonsense.........
it's a trainwreck, just can't stop watching no matter how much you really don't care.
ProspectiveBuyer
New member
There's no comparison. The criminals at GM have blood on their hands. They should be sent to jail, not fined.
CookieRoe
Senior Member
as long as there is money, no one goes to jail.
I agree, but I'm sure they will be sued out the ass (civil). I hope they pay dearly.
VW? Well, another flip of this coin is they calibrated their ECUs to gain an unfair advantage. Are other auto makers doing something similar? I personally don't care how much smog my vehicle spews out, but knowing the automakers (whom I gave my money to) cheated makes me feel cheated. I would especially feel it if I had a TDI VW, ESPECIALLY if the possibility of loosing EPA certification is looming over my head. They broke the law and now they have some heavy duty PR work ahead of them.
I agree, but I'm sure they will be sued out the ass (civil). I hope they pay dearly.
VW? Well, another flip of this coin is they calibrated their ECUs to gain an unfair advantage. Are other auto makers doing something similar? I personally don't care how much smog my vehicle spews out, but knowing the automakers (whom I gave my money to) cheated makes me feel cheated. I would especially feel it if I had a TDI VW, ESPECIALLY if the possibility of loosing EPA certification is looming over my head. They broke the law and now they have some heavy duty PR work ahead of them.
ProspectiveBuyer
New member
Seriously? Ever happened to be downwind from an old diesel bus spewing black smoke, or near one of those "smoke stack" bro truck f-tards ? We're no better than China if we dont care about our emissions.
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Have you lived in Peru where an EPA doesn't exist? ......... and for 8 years inhaling that shit?? Where every goddamn car spews hydrocarbons because no "inspection" laws exist (they didn't for decades). Yeah, I know. My (both of them) Surfs used to be covered in soot (car pollution) a day after it had been washed. Smoke stack morons here in the states thinking that "having a 10in exhaust pipe sticking up from the bed" is cool, i know all about it. I used to live in rural PA, so i know all about these dumbassses. I also have asthma, so yeah, it affects me. To answer your question: I probably know a lot more about it than you.
Perhaps I should've have been more clear: I don't care what happens to VW. It sucks what they did. I care about the environment and how car companies knowingly put their defective products on the road for us without a care. Otherwise, I would not participate in this thread.
EDIT: Do I care about how much my 4Runner spews out? Again, No, because it passed EPA emissions and there is no investigation against Toyota about it. My truck is also religiously maintained. My engine passes emission laws (for its time). Well, maybe a "I'm not concerned about our particular 4Runners" would have been a better choice of words.
BACK ON TOPIC:
Read that European Union official and officials in Germany will be investigating. Seems the problem is widespread. It's not only the 500,000 cars, but more like 11 million cars. That is epic. Its going to be interesting how they dig themselves out of this one.
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This is going to be bad. VW has $7 Billion set aside to fix the affected cars. Then will come the class action suite because the cars will have worse fuel mileage and less power than advertised once they are working properly. Plus there's a stop sale on all new 2.0 TDI cars, luckily we (Audi) don't use that engine in much, the A3 TDI and that's it, we only have 1 car we can't sell.
Meh. That's been a normal thing for decades. I've yet to get advertised mileage out of any vehicle I've ever owned. The mileage claims are done on a dyno. While it can simulate wind and load, simulations are a far cry from actual life.
How Vehicles Are Tested
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Not nearly enough for this "war chest". Apparently Audi and Porsche will be under investigation as well.
11M VW diesels affected, Porsche and Audi under investigation
1engineer
Moderator
Does anyone actually think they (VW) didn't know what they were doing? I'm pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing, what they stood to gain by doing it (more car sales) and what they stand to lose WHEN (not if and money) they got caught. Also pretty sure their supervisory board knew about it and already had plans for this scenario.
I imagine a conversation in 2007:
Hans: "Hey. If we do this little emissions trick we can sell more cars and make another $1B a year."
Marcus: Yeah. Let me see how much it will cost us. Hey! It would only cost us $7B and a few lost customers! We can net a few billion by doing this!"
Hans: "Then let's do this! Somebody remember to tell the next CEO if we get caught he will be the sacrificial lamb. Tell him not to worry though, we will make the severance package worth it."
Yep, pretty sure this is what happened although all the emails and documentation are long gone by now. This is how it really works. They are in business to make a profit. Nothing else. If a rule can be bent or broken to increase profits then it will get bent or broke.
I imagine a conversation in 2007:
Hans: "Hey. If we do this little emissions trick we can sell more cars and make another $1B a year."
Marcus: Yeah. Let me see how much it will cost us. Hey! It would only cost us $7B and a few lost customers! We can net a few billion by doing this!"
Hans: "Then let's do this! Somebody remember to tell the next CEO if we get caught he will be the sacrificial lamb. Tell him not to worry though, we will make the severance package worth it."
Yep, pretty sure this is what happened although all the emails and documentation are long gone by now. This is how it really works. They are in business to make a profit. Nothing else. If a rule can be bent or broken to increase profits then it will get bent or broke.
Falonious
New member
Makes me want to go out and buy one...or two just to show support.
If they get any big fine they should just say screw you (The US) and pull everything out. Don't want our vehicles, we don't need you or you're BS laws.
It would hurt a bit at first but in the end they might be better off.
Always liked the TDI's anyway.
If they get any big fine they should just say screw you (The US) and pull everything out. Don't want our vehicles, we don't need you or you're BS laws.
It would hurt a bit at first but in the end they might be better off.
Always liked the TDI's anyway.
