Build assistance - Feedback on suspension choices for my usage.

Hello everyone. I have been doing research for a few months now on what vehicle and equipment to get for overland travel. I have just sold my 2012 F350 Crew Cab Long Bed diesel truck and four season camper. Last summer we got back into backpacking and tent camping and realized just how much we missed the tents and being able to get places further away from society. The F350 was lifted with 35" but there is still only so far and so rough of a terrain that you can get access to with a 4,000 pound camper in the bed.

Enter the 2015 TEP w/KDSS we picked up last weekend. As mentioned above we're going at this build from an overland perspective BUT keeping an eye on weight. The vehicle will mostly be used for gravel roads, unimproved roads and jeep roads to get us places to hike/backpack. We're also taking 3 months off of work next summer and are planning an off-pavement expedition through British Columbia. Here is the build as I see it so far:

• Full length roof rack (Baja Untility) - 65lbs.
• RTT (Autohome Maggiolina AirLand Med) 130lbs
• Hidden winch mount with winch (not sure on brand/model yet) - ~100lbs
• Sliders, lighter weight style without guide tubes - Not sure on brand yet
• Keeping stock wheels
• 33" tires, not fully decided on brand. Skinny!
• Some type of rear organizational system
• Fridge
• Dual Battery setup
• Full size spare in stock location

The RTT will not be loaded full time when used as a daily driver for my short 2 mile commute to work. After reading a lot on suspension and having my own opinions on brands and styles I have rounded it down to these three options. So in order of most expensive to least here they are. What are your thoughts and why?

Bilstein 6112 Front (Set for 3"f/2"r)
Bilstein 5160 Rear
TOYTEC Superflex Rear Springs
Camburg/Moog UCA
TOYTEC Differential Drop
$1780

OME (3"f/2"r)
2884 Front Coils
90010 Nitrocharger Sport Struts
95PF5 Trim Packer
60080 Nitrocharger Sport Shocks
2895e Rear Springs
Camburg/Moog UCA
TOYTEC Differential Drop
$1450

Bilstein 5100 F&R (Set for 3"f/2"r)
TOYTEC/Eibach 1.6" front spring
TOYTEC Superflex 2" Rear Springs
Camburg/Moog UCA
TOYTEC Differential Drop
$1275

Thanks for taking your time to share your knowledge, opinion and experiences.
Cheers,
Keith

Keith_PDX said:

Hello everyone. I have been doing research for a few months now on what vehicle and equipment to get for overland travel. I have just sold my 2012 F350 Crew Cab Long Bed diesel truck and four season camper. Last summer we got back into backpacking and tent camping and realized just how much we missed the tents and being able to get places further away from society. The F350 was lifted with 35" but there is still only so far and so rough of a terrain that you can get access to with a 4,000 pound camper in the bed.

Enter the 2015 TEP w/KDSS we picked up last weekend. As mentioned above we're going at this build from an overland perspective BUT keeping an eye on weight. The vehicle will mostly be used for gravel roads, unimproved roads and jeep roads to get us places to hike/backpack. We're also taking 3 months off of work next summer and are planning an off-pavement expedition through British Columbia. Here is the build as I see it so far:

• Full length roof rack (Baja Untility) - 65lbs.
• RTT (Autohome Maggiolina AirLand Med) 130lbs
• Hidden winch mount with winch (not sure on brand/model yet) - ~100lbs
• Sliders, lighter weight style without guide tubes - Not sure on brand yet
• Keeping stock wheels
• 33" tires, not fully decided on brand. Skinny!
• Some type of rear organizational system
• Fridge
• Dual Battery setup
• Full size spare in stock location

The RTT will not be loaded full time when used as a daily driver for my short 2 mile commute to work. After reading a lot on suspension and having my own opinions on brands and styles I have rounded it down to these three options. So in order of most expensive to least here they are. What are your thoughts and why?

Bilstein 6112 Front (Set for 3"f/2"r)
Bilstein 5160 Rear
TOYTEC Superflex Rear Springs
Camburg/Moog UCA
TOYTEC Differential Drop
$1780

OME (3"f/2"r)
2884 Front Coils
90010 Nitrocharger Sport Struts
95PF5 Trim Packer
60080 Nitrocharger Sport Shocks
2895e Rear Springs
Camburg/Moog UCA
TOYTEC Differential Drop
$1450

Bilstein 5100 F&R (Set for 3"f/2"r)
TOYTEC/Eibach 1.6" front spring
TOYTEC Superflex 2" Rear Springs
Camburg/Moog UCA
TOYTEC Differential Drop
$1275

Thanks for taking your time to share your knowledge, opinion and experiences.
Cheers,
Keith

Click to expand...

You are going to add around 700 lbs with this list of mods. Your efficiency will drop around 20-30% because of mass increase, drag and adding +40 lbs to your unsprung mass. This is fact.
You won't need a diff drop for any of the above suspensions. CV angles will still be good with only a 2" lift.
Personally I would do the 5100's (max 2.5" not 3") all around because they are bullet proof and require no maintenance. Their price reflects this.
You may or may not need aftermarket UCA's. Their only advantage is additional caster.
My .02.

you don't need a winch, or sliders by the sounds of it

you definitely don;t need those shocks, go with 5100's

you dont need to change the UCA's. most of them come with shitty ball joints, its more hassle than its worth esp if you're not going with 3 inches of lift and 285's

in fact the stock 4runner is already more than capable of doing what you're asking, but its more fun to do some simple "mods" IMO.

Sorry to not comment on your suspension, you will get enough input.

For sliders check out OPOR. Cheap and KDSS compatible. For tires you have 2 choices for the tall and skinny (255/80) Cooper ST Maxx or the BFG KM2.

I second what has been said above. The 5100s will serve you well. No diff drop necessary, and you won't need new UCAs if you use the 5100s at 1.75 or 2.5. A good alignment shop will still be able to get you in spec. As far as tents have you checked out CVT? They are an awesome company in Bend. I see you are in PDX so it wouldn't be a long drive, you can save in shipping, plus check out Bend and their delicious breweries if so inclined.

st8rocks said:

Sorry to not comment on your suspension, you will get enough input.

For sliders check out OPOR. Cheap and KDSS compatible. For tires you have 2 choices for the tall and skinny (255/80) Cooper ST Maxx or the BFG KM2.

Click to expand...

Agreed on the OPOR sliders. Inexpensive, but built well. Metal Tech is in Newberg so you could go pick them up and save a bunch of $. Also, thanks for doing a bunch of research before asking suspension questions, and letting us know what you intend on doing with it which helps us help you.

Keith_PDX said:

What are your thoughts and why?
Cheers,
Keith

Click to expand...

Keith, congrat! It will be a nice rig, and you will be enjoying it for years to come. My 18yrs old 3rd gen is still running and kicking, 270k miles.

You list looks good, maybe you should consider some skid. If you want them to be lighter, go aluminum. IMO, first one to get is the gas tank skid. If you look under your truck, that's almost the lowest spot. A punctured tank will definitely ruin your trip.

If you are going far and beyond and solo..... in the vehicle and off the vehicle.... I highly recommend a PLB(personal locator beacon) as a cheap insurance policy:
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005E1OU1A/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B005E1OU1A&linkCode=as2&tag=jickrevi-20&linkId=SL2UMLH677RVSUVL">ACR PLB-375 ResQ Link Personal Locating Beacon</a><img src="http://ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=jickrevi-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B005E1OU1A" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />

jasonv said:

you don't need a winch, or sliders by the sounds of it

Click to expand...

If the OP is planning to go solo on "off-pavement expedition through British Columbia", why don't you think a winch is not a good idea? I wasn't trying to undermine your comment, I, personally, is going thru the same struggle too - to have a winch or not have a winch.

On top of the winch, 2 or 4 Maxtraxs will be very handy.

My vote would be for the OME setup. Tried and true.

Lexusbstrdchild said:

As far as tents have you checked out CVT?

Click to expand...

Yes I have but its only the GF and I and we'd like one of the hard shell models to be more weather resistant, not fold in a wet tent as much in the NW and we like the setup/takedown of them more. We dont need more area.

jicko said:

You list looks good, maybe you should consider some skid. If you want them to be lighter, go aluminum. IMO, first one to get is the gas tank skid. If you look under your truck, that's almost the lowest spot. A punctured tank will definitely ruin your trip.

If you are going far and beyond and solo..... in the vehicle and off the vehicle.... I highly recommend a PLB(personal locator beacon) as a cheap insurance policy:

If the OP is planning to go solo on "off-pavement expedition through British Columbia", why don't you think a winch is not a good idea? I wasn't trying to undermine your comment, I, personally, is going thru the same struggle too - to have a winch or not have a winch.

On top of the winch, 2 or 4 Maxtraxs will be very handy.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on the skid plate! You are very right about the skid and its now on the list. I have been doing adventure riding on motorcycles for years and have had a SPOT since they first came out. I now have the Gen3. I take it with me even on road trips in the car in case we're in an incident or whatnot when out of cellular range. I will definately have a couple maxtraxs on top of the truck.

I also struggled with the "to winch or not to winch" but I have come to the conclusion that its a really nice thing to have in the event that I need it. Something as simple as moving a log out of the way and its done its job. I have signed up for a winching and recovery class so I can be better educated.

Any other feedback on suspension? If going with a 2.5F/2.0R and the 5100, is the consensus that its worth the time to run aftermarket springs? Coming from a F350 I think the T4R is a little "soft" and could stand some stiffer springs. I will definitely be doing the superflex in the rear so it seems to only make sense to go with something similar up front. I am not a fan of spacers.

Thanks everyone! Any feedback is appreciated.

If you don't want an aftermarket bumper and you venture out alone more often than not I would look at a hitch receiver in the front and a transportable winch to use in either front and back. Get yourself 3 ply tires so they don't go "pop" over sharp rocks and of course without question the 5100's or the OME's. They're both amazing, tried and true.

jicko said:

Keith, congrat! It will be a nice rig, and you will be enjoying it for years to come. My 18yrs old 3rd gen is still running and kicking, 270k miles.

You list looks good, maybe you should consider some skid. If you want them to be lighter, go aluminum. IMO, first one to get is the gas tank skid. If you look under your truck, that's almost the lowest spot. A punctured tank will definitely ruin your trip.

If you are going far and beyond and solo..... in the vehicle and off the vehicle.... I highly recommend a PLB(personal locator beacon) as a cheap insurance policy:
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005E1OU1A/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B005E1OU1A&linkCode=as2&tag=jickrevi-20&linkId=SL2UMLH677RVSUVL">ACR PLB-375 ResQ Link Personal Locating Beacon</a><img src="http://ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=jickrevi-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B005E1OU1A" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />




If the OP is planning to go solo on "off-pavement expedition through British Columbia", why don't you think a winch is not a good idea? I wasn't trying to undermine your comment, I, personally, is going thru the same struggle too - to have a winch or not have a winch.

On top of the winch, 2 or 4 Maxtraxs will be very handy.

Click to expand...

I take a come along and snatch block when I am going somewhere that it might be needed. Much more versatile, lighter, simpler, cheaper and faster especially when you need a rear pull and you are by yourself. What it is not is cooler looking. When you are going solo and you need to be pulled out backwards the stars have to align and you have to be stuck in a perfect position to get a rear pull with a front mounted winch. Never mind having the right gear to make that happen. A four ton come along is a 360 degree tool.

1engineer said:

I take a come along and snatch block when I am going somewhere that it might be needed. Much more versatile, lighter, simpler, cheaper and faster especially when you need a rear pull and you are by yourself. What it is not is cooler looking. When you are going solo and you need to be pulled out backwards the stars have to align and you have to be stuck in a perfect position to get a rear pull with a front mounted winch. Never mind having the right gear to make that happen. A four ton come along is a 360 degree tool.

Click to expand...

You're right about a come along. This tool has served me well in many different ways over the years but until your comment, it never occurred to me to carry in the vehicle. Thanks for the "could have had a V8" head smack!

Carolina Roscoe said:

You're right about a come along. This tool has served me well in many different ways over the years but until your comment, it never occurred to me to carry in the vehicle. Thanks for the "could have had a V8" head smack!

Click to expand...

I started going off road in the 70's so I have a bit of experience lol. Winches have their place. If I knew I was only going to make a certain type of pull multiple times a day then I would have a winch. In a solo off road situation? Come Along is the way to go but again, it does not look cool lol.

Ditto! I have two 4 ton's in my garage with all kinds of strapping. It never occured to me to use it in that capacity. Sounds like a lot of work though!

Keith_PDX said:

Ditto! I have two 4 ton's in my garage with all kinds of strapping. It never occured to me to use it in that capacity. Sounds like a lot of work though!

Click to expand...

In reality it's not. First of all if you are by yourself you are really careful and you'll never use a winch or come along except in a rare emergency. Second, wait until you need to have a backwards or sideways pull and the come along will be much faster than the winch. Third, most of the time you only have to pull a few feet to become un stuck and a come along is not much slower in that instance. Your call though. Winches have their place but in usual overlanding conditions a come along is more than sufficient for the rare time you will need it.

OME!!!! You CAN'T go wrong. Install them and forget about them!

Keith,

As I mentioned in your other thread, I can help you with the install if you want. I am free and there is a certain satisfaction with doing the work on your own.

The two 5th Gens I lifted ran the 5100's all around with OME 895E springs in the rear. The fronts both ran the front strut at the 2.5" setting and kept the stock springs. Niether of them have a winch or bumper.

IMO, if you plan to ever run any weight (i.e. bumper, winch, skids) I would step up the spring rate. My personal preference is going with an adjustable Coilover, but if it is not in your budget, the 5100's will do just fine. I like the adjustability of CO's and most of the springs are rated at 650# or more.

You are definitely on the right track on the rear lift with getting a lift spring instead of spacers. Once again, however, if you plan to add weight to the rear (i.e. heavy loads for overlanding, rear bumper, etc.) I would step up the spring rate. I ran the OME 898's (rated at 3" of lift with 440# constant load) with no weight in the rear for a while. It was a little stiff, but I knew I was going to be adding my rear bumper. When I added the bumper, it felt perfect. I see alot of people having to switch their rear springs out after adding the rear bumper since it will sag. I would rather do things once.

As far as UCA's, if you plan to run 3" in the front, you will want an aftermarket UCA to get your caster close to +4 degrees. As far as which one, you could read the debates for hours on this site. You will have to decide that on your own. I am running the Light Racing UCA's and I have not had any issues in 20K miles. Others have. I pay attention to them and if I ever have issues, I will probably swap.

Let me know what you decide. My garage is open and I would love to help you so you can learn more about your rig and save some coin.

Take care, Jason

jicko said:

Keith, congrat! It will be a nice rig, and you will be enjoying it for years to come. My 18yrs old 3rd gen is still running and kicking, 270k miles.

You list looks good, maybe you should consider some skid. If you want them to be lighter, go aluminum. IMO, first one to get is the gas tank skid. If you look under your truck, that's almost the lowest spot. A punctured tank will definitely ruin your trip.

If you are going far and beyond and solo..... in the vehicle and off the vehicle.... I highly recommend a PLB(personal locator beacon) as a cheap insurance policy:
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005E1OU1A/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B005E1OU1A&linkCode=as2&tag=jickrevi-20&linkId=SL2UMLH677RVSUVL">ACR PLB-375 ResQ Link Personal Locating Beacon</a><img src="http://ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=jickrevi-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B005E1OU1A" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />




If the OP is planning to go solo on "off-pavement expedition through British Columbia", why don't you think a winch is not a good idea? I wasn't trying to undermine your comment, I, personally, is going thru the same struggle too - to have a winch or not have a winch.

On top of the winch, 2 or 4 Maxtraxs will be very handy.

Click to expand...

i was just thinking if he's trying to save weight, and going on what is generally considered pretty tame travel, a winch won't likely be needed. i am not an extensively experienced off roader, but i find most people who need a winch almost purposely choose a route where it is likely to be needed at some point. of course only the OP really can judge what he needs, or thinks he might need.

jicko said:

Keith, congrat! It will be a nice rig, and you will be enjoying it for years to come. My 18yrs old 3rd gen is still running and kicking, 270k miles.

You list looks good, maybe you should consider some skid. If you want them to be lighter, go aluminum. IMO, first one to get is the gas tank skid. If you look under your truck, that's almost the lowest spot. A punctured tank will definitely ruin your trip.

If you are going far and beyond and solo..... in the vehicle and off the vehicle.... I highly recommend a PLB(personal locator beacon) as a cheap insurance policy:
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005E1OU1A/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B005E1OU1A&linkCode=as2&tag=jickrevi-20&linkId=SL2UMLH677RVSUVL">ACR PLB-375 ResQ Link Personal Locating Beacon</a><img src="http://ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=jickrevi-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B005E1OU1A" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />




If the OP is planning to go solo on "off-pavement expedition through British Columbia", why don't you think a winch is not a good idea? I wasn't trying to undermine your comment, I, personally, is going thru the same struggle too - to have a winch or not have a winch.

On top of the winch, 2 or 4 Maxtraxs will be very handy.

Click to expand...

I agree that a winch and maxtrax are a good idea. Depending on where you go, you can drive for hours and hours in BC without phone service. The ability to self-extract may literally be a lifesaver.

I got the suspension ordered. I ended up going with the Bilstein 5100, Eibach 1.6" front springs and the Sway-A-Way 1.5" Eibach rear springs. I will set the Bilstein front at .85". I grabbed a top plate spacer just in case I get the lean. Here's to hoping the alignment works out and I don't have to go back and re-do the work and install Camburg/Moog UCA's.

Jason - Once I have an ETA on things I will reach out to you. Very appreciated.

Now, which tires to get but that's a new thread!

Thanks everyone!