Fully armored. Is it worth the trade-off in weight?

Mutant138 · Sep 9, 2020

I would say I'm at an em-pass for my build. Truck is water tight, full skids, sliders, 33's/wheels, 2nd row delete platform, and a lift. It's a very pleasant to drive on/off-road desert cruiser that I daily.

The stock plastics have all seen better days and I'm thinking it's time to pony up and go full plastic delete. I'm limited to the kinds of lines I can take with plastics. I've bent a fender (minor) on a steep decline into a bit of a hole. I've bent up the rear passenger cab tub doing the same.

There are only so many options for front and rear bumpers resulting in adding around 200 +/- to both ends of the truck no matter what route you go (to include winch and carrier).

I've attempted to contact shops about making lighter bumpers but nobody seems to want the job.

So my question is for those of you that have the catalog thrown at the truck.

What kinds of average MPGs are you seeing?

Have you seen the trucks capabilities off-road be limited with all the weight?

Is the sacrifice in weight worth the ability to bump and scrape with confidence?

Sundy · Sep 10, 2020

I think it depends what the fully armored scenario ends up being - I voted no on the poll based on my weight/benefit ratio.

If you can find a shop to build a lo-pro rear like you've been sketching up, or rear "sliders" and maybe a lightweight front (hybrid bumper or lo-pro with wings) sure. For me - the daily drive-ability without needing a re-gear and tanking the mileage is a factor, but I put on about 30K/year. I'd love to get better front/rear protection - the weight is the hold up.

There is a Hefty Fabworks full front bumper (aluminum - weight ~59lbs) for sale locally to me under the $2K mark and powdercoated - that's a pretty appealing option, lmk if you want me to find the details again and send your way. I just can't justify adding 130+ to the front alone for a full steel bumper.

comtn4x4 · Sep 10, 2020

I think it's worth it. The confidence of full armor is a blast off road. You're already itching to do more I imagine. That being said I have tried to be somewhat weight conscious with some successes and some well not so much. As  @Sundy  said the Hefty Fabworks front bumper and skid options are some of the lightest most durable products around. For better or worse I didn't do their rear bumper and went C4 to a considerable weight gain. (Although I absolutely love my C4 and I'm not keen on some of the Hefty design and functionality aspects.) If I was doing it again I might re think that. I also don't do a RTT or refrigerator preferring to not be so top loaded and save the weight. (As well I didn't want the air resistance)

In hind sight I'd probably stay on 33's as opposed to 34's but they do make a difference off-road.
MPG wise i typically run about 16. If I'm on a flat highway trip I'll be about 18 and if I'm all surface streets about 14.5. Heading into the mountains fully loaded with family and gear probably 14. I try not to get on the gas too much. I do still daily my rig, however, not much longer.

Edit, I'm also probably going to change roof racks to something lighter, My ARB is a pig.

Mutant138 · Sep 10, 2020

Sundy said:
I think it depends what the fully armored scenario ends up being - I voted no on the poll based on my weight/benefit ratio.

If you can find a shop to build a lo-pro rear like you've been sketching up, or rear "sliders" and maybe a lightweight front (hybrid bumper or lo-pro with wings) sure. For me - the daily drive-ability without needing a re-gear and tanking the mileage is a factor, but I put on about 30K/year. I'd love to get better front/rear protection - the weight is the hold up.

There is a Hefty Fabworks full front bumper (aluminum - weight ~59lbs) for sale locally to me under the $2K mark and powdercoated - that's a pretty appealing option, lmk if you want me to find the details again and send your way. I just can't justify adding 130+ to the front alone for a full steel bumper.

Not terribly worried about mpg's but im already at like 12-13 average with the mods I have. I'm guessing people with everything are averaging single digits. I have only put about 20k on my truck in three years and that's only going to go up if I take more trips (which I want more armor for...).

As far as re-gearing this might be something I'm open to. Maybe a front locker while I'm at it. I too would like would like to avoid this if possible tho. Just another headache for my wallet.

Will see about my hybrid rear bumper thing...I've been ghosted by three shops now and I'm losing patience hence me asking about just saying f it and order some bumpers. I would love to build it all myself but I want to convert my carport to a garage first so I would have proper workspace. This might be what I do but that will push the build a long way out in the future.

Aluminum is not really something I consider. If it get's bent or cracks there is not a ton you can do for it. From what I hear they have to add material to make it stronger which seems to negate the weight savings a little. If it cost me less then a new bumper in steel I would consider it idk it would have to be the right price.

Mutant138 · Sep 10, 2020

comtn4x4 said:
I think it's worth it. The confidence of full armor is a blast off road. You're already itching to do more I imagine. That being said I have tried to be somewhat weight conscious with some successes and some well not so much. As  @Sundy  said the Hefty Fabworks front bumper and skid options are some of the lightest most durable products around. For better or worse I didn't do their rear bumper and went C4 to a considerable weight gain. (Although I absolutely love my C4 and I'm not keen on some of the Hefty design and functionality aspects.) If I was doing it again I might re think that. I also don't do a RTT or refrigerator preferring to not be so top loaded and save the weight. (As well I didn't want the air resistance)

In hind sight I'd probably stay on 33's as opposed to 34's but they do make a difference off-road.
MPG wise i typically run about 16. If I'm on a flat highway trip I'll be about 18 and if I'm all surface streets about 14.5. Heading into the mountains fully loaded with family and gear probably 14. I try not to get on the gas too much. I do still daily my rig, however, not much longer.

Edit, I'm also probably going to change roof racks to something lighter, My ARB is a pig.

I'm definitely itching for more. I have to keep it mild just so I don't break more then I already have... guess that's my answer right there.

I worry about cracking or bending aluminum beyond repair then being out all that dough. You taken any full body diggers with that front end?

I like the c4 rear bumper but I would prob go 4x4 labs for the added clearance plus lobbing off the back of the frame prob saves a bit of weight compared to the c4.

No RTT or fridge myself. Most of my gear is out of the truck for daily use other then some tools.

comtn4x4 · Sep 10, 2020

Mutant138 said:
I'm definitely itching for more. I have to keep it mild just so I don't break more then I already have... guess that's my answer right there.

I worry about cracking or bending aluminum beyond repair then being out all that dough. You taken any full body diggers with that front end?

I like the c4 rear bumper but I would prob go 4x4 labs for the added clearance plus lobbing off the back of the frame prob saves a bit of weight compared to the c4.

I've hit the lower front of my front bumper very hard on rocks a number of times, once being a dumb a$$ showing off at speed as well. Never done any more damage than a gouge and taking off the powder coat. I have dragged my skids like crazy and never had an issue as well as coming down hard on them. That being said I did go steel in the rear for the very reason you're stating although I rarely drop down hard on my rear bumper for whatever reason. The weight saving in aluminum full bumper and skids for me is about 200# vs steel.
The 4x4 labs rear bumper is a fantastic choice although quite heavy like the C4. For me I liked the double latch design of the C4 better and some of the additional flexibility in it's design.

Honestly most of the hits I have taken have been skids, front lower control arms, rear lower control arms and the rear control arm mount. The bumpers I mainly scrape.

In regards to your MPG why do you think you're so low? Rolling resistance? I do have a re gear which depending on how you look at it, helps a bit. Maybe 1 mpg depending on your driving habits. I also run a URD MAF sensor calibrator which gave me about 1 more mpg. I found staying on a narrower tire makes a big difference to, when I ran 305/70's I took a significant MPG hit

SpeedyKevin · Sep 10, 2020

comtn4x4 said:
I think it's worth it. The confidence of full armor is a blast off road. You're already itching to do more I imagine. That being said I have tried to be somewhat weight conscious with some successes and some well not so much. As  @Sundy  said the Hefty Fabworks front bumper and skid options are some of the lightest most durable products around. For better or worse I didn't do their rear bumper and went C4 to a considerable weight gain. (Although I absolutely love my C4 and I'm not keen on some of the Hefty design and functionality aspects.) If I was doing it again I might re think that. I also don't do a RTT or refrigerator preferring to not be so top loaded and save the weight. (As well I didn't want the air resistance)

In hind sight I'd probably stay on 33's as opposed to 34's but they do make a difference off-road.
MPG wise i typically run about 16. If I'm on a flat highway trip I'll be about 18 and if I'm all surface streets about 14.5. Heading into the mountains fully loaded with family and gear probably 14. I try not to get on the gas too much. I do still daily my rig, however, not much longer.

Edit, I'm also probably going to change roof racks to something lighter, My ARB is a pig.

I was thinking about the C4 but just like the clearance on the 4x4 more. Seen a few 4x4s in person and boy they look well made...and heavy! Been hitting my stock bumper cover a few times now so may consider a 4x4 in the near future. I don't carry a fridge or storage solution so the car is relatively "light". Wanted to switch over to 34s but only if I get a rear bumper to carry a full size spare.

Mutant138 · Sep 10, 2020

comtn4x4 said:
I've hit the lower front of my front bumper very hard on rocks a number of times, once being a dumb a$$ showing off at speed as well. Never done any more damage than a gouge and taking off the powder coat. I have dragged my skids like crazy and never had an issue as well as coming down hard on them. That being said I did go steel in the rear for the very reason you're stating although I rarely drop down hard on my rear bumper for whatever reason. The weight saving in aluminum full bumper and skids for me is about 200# vs steel.
The 4x4 labs rear bumper is a fantastic choice although quite heavy like the C4. For me I liked the double latch design of the C4 better and some of the additional flexibility in it's design.

Honestly most of the hits I have taken have been skids, front lower control arms, rear lower control arms and the rear control arm mount. The bumpers I mainly scrape.

In regards to your MPG why do you think you're so low? Rolling resistance? I do have a re gear which depending on how you look at it, helps a bit. Maybe 1 mpg depending on your driving habits. I also run a URD MAF sensor calibrator which gave me about 1 more mpg. I found staying on a narrower tire makes a big difference to, when I ran 305/70's I took a significant MPG hit

When I was stock I shredded in the truck. All the skids got trashed. Had to swap my transmission cross member and brace just to get rci skids in. Bunch of other stuff has dings it it but nothing too bad. Funny since i finished my mods I've almost been taking it easier.

I'm not sure about my MPG's tbh. I drive like old people **** on the streets just practicing mechanical sympathy for the abuse I give it off-road. I'm guessing it's the E rated 285's and the full steel skids. I should hook the pedal commander back up and see if that helps at all (took it off because I only found it usefully when driving through mountains on the highway).

comtn4x4 · Sep 10, 2020

SpeedyKevin said:
I was thinking about the C4 but just like the clearance on the 4x4 more. Seen a few 4x4s in person and boy they look well made...and heavy! Been hitting my stock bumper cover a few times now so may consider a 4x4 in the near future. I don't carry a fridge or storage solution so the car is relatively "light". Wanted to switch over to 34s but only if I get a rear bumper to carry a full size spare.

4x4 labs is a sweet bumper I don't think you can go wrong with it.

I saw the other day someone said they were fitting a 34 under the truck so long as you don't have KDSS. Although, going to 34's was what really made me want a re gear. (I re geared pre rear bumper)

comtn4x4 · Sep 10, 2020

Mutant138 said:
When I was stock I shredded in the truck. All the skids got trashed. Had to swap my transmission cross member and brace just to get rci skids in. Bunch of other stuff has dings it it but nothing too bad. Funny since i finished my mods I've almost been taking it easier.

I'm not sure about my MPG's tbh. I drive like old people **** on the streets just practicing mechanical sympathy for the abuse I give it off-road. I'm guessing it's the E rated 285's and the full steel skids. I should hook the pedal commander back up and see if that helps at all (took it off because I only found it usefully when driving through mountains on the highway).

Other than additional trips to the gas station I don't know how big a deal that is to you, it's all relative. Daily driving obviously influences things significantly.

I have found myself doing more much longer trips off grid where the expectation of the group is to go much further without needing to refuel. Better MPG obviously helps there. Although there always seems to be someone much worse off that I am lol.

SpeedyKevin · Sep 10, 2020

comtn4x4 said:
4x4 labs is a sweet bumper I don't think you can go wrong with it.

I saw the other day someone said they were fitting a 34 under the truck so long as you don't have KDSS. Although, going to 34's was what really made me want a re gear. (I re geared pre rear bumper)

Could have been me! I ordered a 34 Yoko Mud and tried fitting it under. The sway bar gets in the way. Could probably clear with no KDSS but it wouldd be close to the panhard.

rochmpr · Sep 10, 2020

Believe it or not, in my old 4Runnet, I had gotten as good as 17 mpg on the highway to a little as 12 mpg. My Runner was heavy unloaded, let alone loaded to wheel. That was also with 4.56 gears on the 315's. So it is totally worth it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Mutant138 · Sep 10, 2020

comtn4x4 said:
Other than additional trips to the gas station I don't know how big a deal that is to you, it's all relative. Daily driving obviously influences things significantly.

I have found myself doing more much longer trips off grid where the expectation of the group is to go much further without needing to refuel. Better MPG obviously helps there. Although there always seems to be someone much worse off that I am lol.

Yeah at the end of the day it's still going to be better then most in our class. Seems like a real crime we don't have a turbo diesel option to negate most of these issues.

I'm not terribly worried about the pump visits things a money pit anyways. I'm trying to figure out if the protection is really worth the added weight. No point in armor if you don't have the TQ to get it over obstacles safely.

comtn4x4 · Sep 10, 2020

Mutant138 said:
Yeah at the end of the day it's still going to be better then most in our class. Seems like a real crime we don't have a turbo diesel option to negate most of these issues.

I'm not terribly worried about the pump visits things a money pit anyways. I'm trying to figure out if the protection is really worth the added weight. No point in armor if you don't have the TQ to get it over obstacles safely.

That's where the re gear comes in. 4:56's or 4:88's real shining point is off road, you'll just roll right over your obstacles. It'll be so much more enjoyable to drive

Ryance39 · Sep 10, 2020

In my mind the weight becomes a bigger factor the more you drive it.
If you are basically driving it to and from the trails or occasionally around town, then sure the weight isn't an issue.

If you're picking up the kids, to and from the airport, living life in your armored 4runner, then maybe it doesn't make sense.

Another thought, and I don't know your situation, but if you're considering dropping the money to go full armor and have already done significant mods, I would get the main things like skids and sliders sorted, then go wheel and replace what you damage beyond repair with aftermarket, upgraded options. For my 3rd gen, where I do most my wheeling, I've never done front or rear bumpers because even though I have bumped them a few times I've never ruined them to the point of replacement.

It makes sense in my head at least.

srsrogerissrs · Sep 10, 2020

I'm not terrible decked out nor would I want to be right now without a regear. I've managed to survive on stock skids but I have a shrockworks rear bumper, 295s, hidden winch mount. I think I'm bordering on needing a regear pretty soon since I find myself cruising everywhere in 4th since 5th is pretty much useless.

Another thing to think about is you'll need to get some stiffer rate springs front and rear if you're planning on adding front and rear bumpers.

Mutant138 · Sep 10, 2020

rochmpr said:
Believe it or not, in my old 4Runnet, I had gotten as good as 17 mpg on the highway to a little as 12 mpg. My Runner was heavy unloaded, let alone loaded to wheel. That was also with 4.56 gears on the 315's. So it is totally worth it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

comtn4x4 said:
That's where the re gear comes in. 4:56's or 4:88's real shining point is off road, you'll just roll right over your obstacles. It'll be so much more enjoyable to drive

Well I was thinking I would prob go 34 on my next set since I've cut everything out anyways....

Guess it good to go with a regear... Just another few grand why not...

Mutant138 · Sep 10, 2020

srsrogerissrs said:
I'm not terrible decked out nor would I want to be right now without a regear. I've managed to survive on stock skids but I have a shrockworks rear bumper, 295s, hidden winch mount. I think I'm bordering on needing a regear pretty soon since I find myself cruising everywhere in 4th since 5th is pretty much useless.

Another thing to think about is you'll need to get some stiffer rate springs front and rear if you're planning on adding front and rear bumpers.

Sounds like there is really no way around it then. Re gear is unavoidable on these trucks if you want to have fun.

Yeah I'm aware of this. Part of the reason I chose dobisons from the start.

760Runner · Sep 10, 2020

I remember reading an article on here about the added weight vs mpg. I believe, and don’t take my word for it, but for every 100lbs added its only .1 mpg loss, so 1,000lbs of armor only equates to 1mpg loss...again if someone could find that info that would be cool. if anything I would be more worried about long term drivetrain/engine stress on the added weight but we cant really measure that

srsrogerissrs · Sep 10, 2020

Mutant138 said:
Sounds like there is really no way around it then. Re gear is unavoidable on these trucks if you want to have fun.

Yeah I'm aware of this. Part of the reason I chose dobisons from the start.

Yah, I thought I was pretty content without a regear with 285s.... then I went to 295s.

Fully armored. Is it worth the trade-off in weight?

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