Rescue Workers Say Hybrid Cars a Danger

NoDak

Senior Member
original article : http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/ap/20040504/ap_on_re_us/hybrid_car_rescues

PHILADELPHIA - The growing popularity of hybrid vehicles is a step toward cleaner air and less dependence on gasoline. But for rescuers at accident scenes, they represent a potential new danger: a network of high-voltage circuitry that may require some precise cutting to save a trapped victim.

"You don't want to go crushing anything with hydraulic tools," said Samuel Caroluzzi, an assistant chief with the Norristown Fire Department outside Philadelphia. "It's enough to kill you from what they're telling us in training."

Hybrids draw power from two sources, typically a gas or diesel engine combined with an electric motor. The battery powering the electric motor carries as much as 500 volts, more than 40 times the strength of a standard battery.

That worries those who must cut into cars to rescue people inside.

"If you can't shut it down, you don't know where the high voltage is," said David Dalrymple, an emergency medical technician in New Brunswick, N.J.

Manufacturers have put in place a laundry list of safety checks that the car's computer must go through for the electrical system to run. They've published guides showing where the electric components are on their models; on the Toyota Prius and other hybrids, the high-power cables are colored bright orange to catch the eye of a rescue worker or a mechanic.

But there are concerns over what happens if something goes wrong and the battery, ignition and other points are inaccessible.

"It's the 'what-if' that worries me," said David Castiaux, an instructor for Mid-Del Technology Center in Del City, Okla., who teaches rescue workers about hybrids.

Chris Peterson, a service training instructor for Toyota, said the Prius' electric system should shut down if anything goes wrong. "There should not be high voltage in those cables, but I'm not going to stand up and say there isn't," he said.

First responders are taught to disconnect the battery and turn off the key immediately before cutting into a car, but that's not always possible.

"Years ago you could just cut with your extrication tools through a post, but now you have to look before you cut," said Ken Nelsen, chief of the Iselin Fire Department District 11 in Woodbridge Township, N.J. "It's just another thing you need to worry about."

When air bags started becoming more common in the 1980s, rescue workers became aware of their potential to seriously injure or kill when inflated. Those concerns have been heightened now that the safety devices are being installed in side panels, seats and other areas.

Concerns about hybrids are increasing in large part because of their growing popularity. Sales have risen at an average annual rate of 88.6 percent since 2000 and recent figures show the number of Americans driving them jumped more than 25 percent from 2002 to 2003.

The Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius are common now and more are on the way: hybrid versions of the Ford Escape, Honda Accord and Lexus SUV this year, and a Toyota Highlander in 2005.

The Alachua County Fire Rescue in Gainesville, Fla., even has two hybrids of its own. Although its crews haven't had to deal with a hybrid crash, they've been getting versed on what to do when it happens, said Cliff Chapman, assistant chief.

They know not to cut into a hybrid's doors
 
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Apparently Toyota has been reading the same thing - here's their press release on the subject:

Toyota Prius Engine Safety in the Event of an Accident

05/04/2004 Torrance, CA

The Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid vehicle has many safeguards to help ensure safe operation for drivers and protection of emergency response professionals in the event of an accident.

The high voltage batteries are contained in an extremely strong protective case located in a portion of the vehicle very unlikely to be penetrated in a collision. Drivetrain management computers continuously monitor all system functions performing hundreds of tests each minute. In the event an abnormal condition is detected, all high voltage circuits are disabled and high voltage is contained inside the protective case.

Further, two safety mechanisms are in place that shut off the engine and disconnect high voltage if an airbag is deployed or if there is a sudden deceleration indicative of an accident. High voltage cables and components are heavily insulated, shielded, isolated and the cables are painted bright orange for easy identification. The controller box is a sealed unit and has warning labels.

To reassure emergency response professionals when the Prius was introduced in 2000, Toyota placed advertisements in trade publications and sent letters to industry organizations announcing the availability and dissemination of Emergency Response Guides. Today, all Emergency Response Guides for Toyota's alternative fuel vehicles, including Prius, RAV 4 EV, CNG Camry and Highlander Fuel Cell Hybrid are available at Toyota's technical information web site and Toyota continues to advertise in appropriate professional publications.

Electrically driven Toyota vehicles like the Prius, RAV 4 EV and e.com have been available in the U.S. since 1998. Like all vehicles, they can be involved in emergency situations. They have established a good track record for electrical safety and we are not aware of a battery case breach or any personal injury in the U.S. related to hybrid or EV electrical systems.
 
I'd rather deal with a high voltage battery than a tank of compressed hydrogen.


I'd rather deal with a tank of hydrogen than a tank of gasoline, which is actually a lot more volatile!

--Dan
 
Re: Hybrids

Remember the Hindenberg!!:bugeye:

The big flames seen in the Hindenberg disaster films were *not* the result of hydrogen burning, but the aluminized fabric covering burning...

Remember: Hydrogen, Good...Aluminized aircraft dope, BAD!!!

--Dan
 
I think that hyrogen cars are still pretty far off....

To isolate the hydrogen atom, there has to be an enormous amount of energy applied through electrolosis. And since most of our energy is provided by fossil fuels, the pollution will not be produced by the actual physical engine, but yet the power plant which produces the energy will be the pollutor.

"The fuel production and vehicle results were combined into total Well-to-Wheel results expressed as BTU/mile for energy consumption and grams CO2 equivalent per mile for greenhouse gas emissions for 25 complete pathways. The lowest energy consumption was achieved with the diesel hybrid, gasoline reformer fuel cell hybrid, and the hybrid fuel cell fueled with gaseous hydrogen from natural gas. Although vehicle fuel economy was highest for the hydrogen fuel cell hybrid, production of hydrogen used more energy than production of gasoline or diesel fuel, resulting in nearly equal Well-to-Wheel energy consumption among these options. The full cycle energy consumption for the methanol reformer fuel cell was no better than that for gasoline reformer fuel cell vehicles. The ethanol vehicle options had higher total energy consumption than the petroleum and natural gas-based fuels, but this was primarily renewable energy. The fuel cell vehicle operating on hydrogen produced via electrolysis had the highest total energy consumption of all pathways examined. http://www.epa.gov/ORD/NRMRL/std/fuelcell/fuelabstracts/Brinkman_abs.pdf[/url]

Here are a few links.......

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/07/030718084311.htm

http://lfee.mit.edu/features/hydrogen_vehicles

SORRY FOR STEALING THE THREAD, but since we kind of got off on to hydrogen cars, I figured this would fit in.
 

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