10,000 Mile Oil Change

[philsey]

.....

That said, why would anyone even consider questioning Toyota Engineers on this? They have- as Brock stated- way too much to lose by comprising durability due to oil. No way in hell that's happening.

Yup, this.

.....
But- no dirty 18 yr old hung-over punk at a dealership will be half-assing my oil changes. THAT, my friends, should worry you waaaay more than Toyota's oil change interval!!!

.....exactly! If anyone's going to be half-assing that oil change, it's going to be Antman hizzownself.

 

[Antman]

.....exactly! If anyone's going to be half-assing that oil change, it's going to be antman hizzownself.

hey! :lmao:

 

[Ducmonsta]

I'm going to change mine every 3k with synthetic. I don't care if you guys ever change yours.

As a matter of fact, yes! I'm making it rain on the money tree in my back yard.

I think they only way people will be satisfied is this....

Let's pick two people, two different ways of maintaining, and pull valve covers in 150k. I'll even do the labor for free at my shop. Then let's see if Toyota engineers and Black Labs will be willing to replace your engine. Not because it needs it, but because it won't look like the one that was "over maintained".

Seriously, we should pick a different topic to agree to disagree on. BTW, who hates Goodyear tires?

 

[mpaquette]

So glad we have another one of theses threads. What's it been, 2 since the last one?

 

[phillyd2]

I have not yet read the Owners Manual. Are you guys saying that the oil needs to be changed? :boxer:

 

[1engineer]

What kills me is the wannabee Drivetrain engineers. Apparently a lot of you in this thread got a diploma in the bottom of a crackerjacks box (I know it's a song line) and are mixing a tiny bit of science, heresay, voodoo and everything else to form an opinion. Look, Nobody CARES when you change your own oil. Duc has it right: Change it or not. It does not matter to us. Wow, put your tin foil hats on tune into some other conspiracy.

 

[gray street]

I change mine every 1000 miles

 

[vicpick58]

I change mine every 1000 miles

Believe it or not, up until about 12 years ago, I did change my oil every 2000 miles.

It was of course when I was still using dino oil, but then I got the job that I have now and I have to drive up to 1000 miles per week.

Changing my oil every other weekend got to be too much for me. So I switched to synthetic and went to 5000 mile intervals.

But I did the 2000 mile thing from about 1981 thru 2000 and never had any engine problems with the vehicles that I owned during that time.

Before 1981 I did wear out an engine or two due to lack of maintenance and being young and stupid. (now I am OLD and stupid)

I kind of like the idea of going to 10k intervals, but not until I confirm with an analysis that the oil will hold up.

I would like to get at least 250k miles out of this Toyota. (5 to 6 years)

 

[limamike]

I have not yet read the Owners Manual. Are you guys saying that the oil needs to be changed? :boxer:

I've actually had that conversation with someone before when trying to help diagnose an issue with her vehicle.

> When was the last time you changed the oil?
> "What?"

 

[brockeverly]

I've actually had that conversation with someone before when trying to help diagnose an issue with her vehicle.

> When was the last time you changed the oil?
> "What?"

"My car doesn't have oil"

 

[thebwlife]

When I ran an oil change shop (drive through place) i had a Lincoln navigator come in with 22K miles since last oil change, it should have had like 6.5 qts in it, instead it had 3 quarts of sludge. It was so bad we had to flush the engine with new oil and bg chemicals before i would change it for them.

 

[36bound]

What kills me is the wannabee Drivetrain engineers. Apparently a lot of you in this thread got a diploma in the bottom of a crackerjacks box (I know it's a song line) and are mixing a tiny bit of science, heresay, voodoo and everything else to form an opinion. Look, Nobody CARES when you change your own oil. Duc has it right: Change it or not. It does not matter to us. Wow, put your tin foil hats on tune into some other conspiracy.

Pardon me, but what's up with the insults ("wannabee Drivetrain engineers")? I'm relatively new to this forum, but is talking down to others a common occurrence? Is it accepted by forum participants? Is it tolerated by the moderators?

Seems to me that a person should be able to make a point- agree or disagree- without being insulting or talking down to others, regardless of their level of education or how they happen to earn a living.

 

[chetJ]

Well said 36 Bound...well said!

 

[homeyclaus]

Pardon me, but what's up with the insults ("wannabee Drivetrain engineers")? I'm relatively new to this forum, but is talking down to others a common occurrence? Is it accepted by forum participants? Is it tolerated by the moderators?

Seems to me that a person should be able to make a point- agree or disagree- without being insulting or talking down to others, regardless of their level of education or how they happen to earn a living.

From 1engineer's history of being a really helpful, but grouchy old codger, yes.

The point was that one should back what they say up with facts.

"Changed oil at 5000 miles, and it's a mess, look at this lab report." sounds a lot different than "We changed oil in our AMC every 2000 miles in the 70's, so I'll still do that for our Toyota in 2012, hurr durr..."

Most people in this thread are picking path #2, and quite, well you seem sensitive, so I won't hurt your feelings.

(ETA: Realize BMW and Mercedes had 15000km oil changes (9300 miles for those confused) since the late 90's. On dino oil, my 2001 Maxima's manual states 12000km (7500 mi) oil changes. Why? Because if you mess up a line of engines at a line in Japan, it's very very shameful to have to go to remedial training. In Detroit, the guy that just messed up the last 300 engines can tell his supervisor to f*** off and not be fired. Just sayin')

 

[36bound]

Homeyclaus,

I'm not sensitive at all. What I am is mindful of the fact that it is entirely possible to disagree with someone without being disrespectful to that person. I am also cognizant of the fact that being condescending and rude is rarely an effective way to communicate or debate a point- regardless of one's level of acumen associated with a subject. I'm further aware that the internet has a way of bringing out rudeness (and boldness) in people who, face to face, would no doubt find another, more acceptable way to communicate their point of view.

As I mentioned, I'm relatively new to this forum and still not hip to the protocol of conduct. If being rude, sarcastic or condescending under the umbrella of possessing knowledge is your thing; and if the moderators tolerate it, have at it. I can assure you that very few people who choose to drive a Toyota in MICHIGAN are, as you wrongly deduced, "sensitive".

 

[1engineer]

@OP: Personally, I change my oil in my 4Runner every 10K or so. If I towed a lot or drove in dusty conditions a lot I would change it sooner, as specified by Toyota. I am expressing this as an opinion. I did much research when I purchased this vehicle into engine and drivetrain specs. I will also recommend the OEM 0W-20 full synthetic fluid as it is probably the best for this vehicle. Again, I researched this ad nausem too. There is no danger to changing it sooner. If you want to change it at a closer interval that's fine although I have not read any data, either Toyota generated or otherwise, that shows changing 0W-20 full systhetic more often than between 5-10K (depending on driving conditions) will cause your engine to last longer. Filter changes are a key there. Hope this helps. Now to adress this poster:

Under no circumstance would I consider allowing 10,000 miles to elapse between oil changes. Seems to me that future buyers of our vehicles would much prefer to see documentation which substantiated that our oil had been changed every 5,000 miles, rather than 10,000.

In addition, I find it terribly coincidental now that Toyota is offering free oil changes for the first two years of ownership, that miraculously, the oil change recommendation has went from every 5,000 miles to every 10,000 miles.

Over the course of the next 150,000 miles the difference between changing out the oil every 5,000 miles compared to 10,000 might be a grand, so what. An extra $125 a year over the next eight years is a trivial investment. Then again, there is also the reasonable possibility that more frequent oil changes could help avoid other costly issues from arising.

When I have sold my previous vehicles, campers or planes, I have had friends, or friends of friends standing in line 3-4 people deep waiting to buy my stuff. And all because they were aware that what I was selling them had been maintained at a level that exceeded minimum scheduled maintenance requirements.

You are advocating and practicing a maintenance plan that states simply "More is Better." You base that on a strategy of "It costs more" as justification. Your results of this practice and strategy seem to be "...standing in line 3-4 people deep waiting to buy..." because people want to buy your "stuff" is reason to keep doing what you have in the past. In my experience, very few people are driven to buy something simply based on past maintenance practice. Most are driven by price. Member Brockeverly proved you wrong with his nifty math on the "cost saving" by going to 10K in this thread.

"Want to change it sooner? Do it, it won't hurt anything except your wallet."

-Antman

Exactly. I'll change my oil twice as much (in truth, probably more often than that, because i can) as recommended for an extra $125/year- or whatever the amount- for the next eight years. No worries, whatsoever. If I thought I wouldn't be able to afford to maintain my vehicle at a level that exceeds minimum stated requirements and satisfies my own self-imposed higher maintenance regimen, I wouldn't have purchased it.

To each his own.

Again, the "More is Better" policy with higher cost as justification. Let me ask you something: If a guy decided to put a different viscosity and type of oil in his vehicle (based on his history) than specified, and he changed it every 2K miles, and then he decided to put a Wix filter on, and he again changed it every 2K miles, would you buy it? Or how about this: Another guy changed his oil according to manufactures spec every 10K. In addition he installed a bypass filtration system using Pall filters that he also changed every 10K. He also had Blackstone Labs analyze it every 25K. Would you buy that? According to your way of thinking of "More is Better" then i'm sure you would choose the first way. Nevermind Pall makes one of the best filtration systems on the market and there is no comparision between the two filter medias.
If you want to learn more about my opinion and some very knowledgable posters here read this http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/109588-oil-change-0w20-wtf.html as this thread is only about three months old.

Pardon me, but what's up with the insults ("wannabee Drivetrain engineers")? I'm relatively new to this forum, but is talking down to others a common occurrence? Is it accepted by forum participants? Is it tolerated by the moderators?

Seems to me that a person should be able to make a point- agree or disagree- without being insulting or talking down to others, regardless of their level of education or how they happen to earn a living.

First of all, I never mentioned you by your screen name in my post. It apparently struck a chord with you though. My comment of "Wannabee Drivetrain Engineers" is meant to show that, while the OP solicited opinions on oil change duration, most answers that were posted afterward came from opinion with no factual evidence whatsoever.
You made a point with your posts. You value quantity over quality. Again, I did not mention you by name nor did I insult your level of education. Some of the smartest guys I know have a high school education. A friend of mine who is absolutely brillant with over 35 patents in highly technical mechanical devices graduated from Vo-Tech with a Masonry Diploma. Yes, he can still lay blocks too. There are many good, smart people on this board regardless of their education or field. There is even a Lawyer (gasp) who posts on here that knows what he is talking about lol.

At any given time on the 5th gen forum there is around 3X as many visitors as there are members. These are people doing research to either buy a 4Runner or are looking for answers to questions they have. When I post I try to cite best accepted practice when expressing my opinion and when possible I cite references. Antman, Harper, PhillyD2, Ducmonsta, Nashman, Intruder, Brockeverly, Okki, Mick1, JTraskell, Philsey, Jesse and many others post great, well thought out answers and I'm sure they have helped many people doing research. I try to do the same.
There are some things where opinion is important with no justification. Such things as "Which color do you like" or "Which wheel looks better" are of course opinion based with no factual comment needed. Most "Form" comments are that way. When it comes to something related to "Function" though, most opinions and comments need to be fact based with some science and documentation available or cited.

Lastly, Alright Homey, how old do you think I am??? 90?? Wow, that hurts. That hurts a lot. You "Cut me to the bone" (to quote Andy when talking to Barney). Hope you are doing well lol.

 

[1engineer]

Homeyclaus,

I'm not sensitive at all. What I am is mindful of the fact that it is entirely possible to disagree with someone without being disrespectful to that person. I am also cognizant of the fact that being condescending and rude is rarely an effective way to communicate or debate a point- regardless of one's level of acumen associated with a subject. I'm further aware that the internet has a way of bringing out rudeness (and boldness) in people who, face to face, would no doubt find another, more acceptable way to communicate their point of view.

As I mentioned, I'm relatively new to this forum and still not hip to the protocol of conduct. If being rude, sarcastic or condescending under the umbrella of possessing knowledge is your thing; and if the moderators tolerate it, have at it. I can assure you that very few people who choose to drive a Toyota in MICHIGAN are, as you wrongly deduced, "sensitive".

Again, I did not single you out.
Hopefully when you read my above post you will understand where I am coming from. I know you are new. Do me a favor and search around on topics relevant to 4Runners. You will find a lot of people depend on good, clear and concise answers and there are a LOT of really good, smart people here to help. This is what makes this forum much better than most out there. I am who I am and do not pretend to be anything else. Yes, I sometimes pi$$ people off in real life too.

 

[brockeverly]

I think where frustration sets in for some of us is when people spit out opinions as factual information. For guests searching, they take things at face value. I like to be sure that if something here is wrong I do my best to correct the statement. Pissing off the person who posted it is not concerning to me. Someone searching and taking their ill informed advice, then inevitably regurtating it somewhere here again is.

:frisky:

 

[chetJ]

Brockeverly- If you are referring to my first post in this thread (since your first post followed immediately after mine), I will quote what I said in my first post.
I said 'the consensus seems to have been that 10,000 miles is too much to go between oil changes- I do mine every 5000 miles'.
When I use the word 'CONSENSUS', to me it means a consensus of opinions about the topic. In coming to this decision for myself, I did research a lot of threads on this forum and some of the well respected posters had also posted in those threads- that is how I came to my decision.
If someone is looking for facts/ science based results, there is nothing stopping them from searching to find some of 1Engineer's (and others) excellent posts. My intent in posting was to give the OP a quick answer based upon my research on this forum

 

[homeyclaus]

Homeyclaus,

I'm not sensitive at all. What I am is mindful of the fact that it is entirely possible to disagree with someone without being disrespectful to that person. I am also cognizant of the fact that being condescending and rude is rarely an effective way to communicate or debate a point- regardless of one's level of acumen associated with a subject. I'm further aware that the internet has a way of bringing out rudeness (and boldness) in people who, face to face, would no doubt find another, more acceptable way to communicate their point of view.

As I mentioned, I'm relatively new to this forum and still not hip to the protocol of conduct. If being rude, sarcastic or condescending under the umbrella of possessing knowledge is your thing; and if the moderators tolerate it, have at it. I can assure you that very few people who choose to drive a Toyota in MICHIGAN are, as you wrongly deduced, "sensitive".

Those who claim 1, 2, or 3 thousand oil changes are being equally condescending in both tone and knowledge. Two wrongs don't make a right, but claiming guesstimation as true knowledge and fact chafes and misleads others to regurgitate the same malarkey and bro' science.

When you're wrong, and continue to insist you're right, expect strong push back from those who want to make sure that future search results don't cause some poor lurker to do something silly, or worse. If you don't understand that others won't accept your facts without some scientific evidence and get all uppity about it, you get lampooned, because rational arguments have failed at that point.

As far as online vs real life directness goes, that may be true for some, but let me tell you, say something so ignorant as this around me in person, and then take an attitude, and the response you get from me will be a lot less PC than you'll get online.

In the end, as everyone else said, it's your truck. Go put straight 30 in it and change it every 2500 miles if it makes you happy. Follow the adverse use schedule if it makes you happy. Just don't ride a high horse about it if you cannot back it up with a quantitative measurement.

@OP: Personally, I change my oil in my 4Runner every 10K or so. If I towed a lot or drove in dusty conditions a lot I would change it sooner, as specified by Toyota.

Exhibit #1: a reasonable statement.

I am expressing this as an opinion.

Exhibit #2: A reasonable disclaimer.

[[ other stuff I agree with deleted for brevity ]]

Lastly, Alright Homey, how old do you think I am??? 90?? Wow, that hurts. That hurts a lot. You "Cut me to the bone" (to quote Andy when talking to Barney). Hope you are doing well lol.

Okay, now I feel bad. I didn't mean it like that. My apologies. I'd feel even worse if you were younger than I.

ETA:
@OP: I run 10k mile oil change intervals with 0W20. I tow a 4000 lb trailer a lot (>20% of total miles driven). I off-road a lot if you define WV county highways as "off road" - perhaps "unimproved road" is a better term. Per the maintenance schedule, this means a 10k engine oil OCI, and a 20k differential oil OCI. And yes, I was surprised to find that the oil in the differentials needs to be changed every 20,000 miles, which is why I am sending a sample of that to a lab for analysis.

...
I said 'the consensus seems to have been that 10,000 miles is too much to go between oil changes- I do mine every 5000 miles'.
When I use the word 'CONSENSUS', to me it means a consensus of opinions about the topic.

I run my vehicles on the principle of a benevolent dictatorship, not a democracy. Just sayin'.