$10K KDSS Repair!!

Yes, and the SR5's feel like those early 2000's Camrys. I vomitted twice in my Cousin's early 2000's Camry. This is one of the reasons I had always preferred Honda/Acura cars. It is preference though. I do prefer the firmer ride that Honda's tend to have.

I think it is important for a prospective 4Runner owner to test drive both before deciding. I actually ordered the KDSS option and bought the vehicle outright before ever driving it. I had done a lot of research and felt like I didn't need the test drive. Drove off in my new 4Runner with KDSS feeling validated instantly.

I do expect my KDSS to last the life of the vehicle.

I'm fairly sure that the Off-Road vehicles all get upgraded shocks (like baby 5100's or something to that effect, Toyota seems to like using those OEM Bilstein shocks for their Off-Road trim Trucks and SUVs) which is likely the main improvement in ride quality rather than the KDSS, but it could be a contributing factor on-road too.
 
Unlivable is a pretty strong, especially since we have 296K miles on a 2014 SR5 and still don’t know why we’d need KDSS.

Clicked on your video link and stopped at pink baseball hat worn backwards. All credibility lost right there.

No, because the information provided in the video is objective, and therefore stands even if it were to have been provided by a Northern Australian box jelly fish. When I say an SR5's suspension is unlivable, that is my opinion. When I provide a recording that makes it seem like the SR5 is sitting on wavy waters after braking, that is objective. And that bounce/nosedive is an issue that stands whether you want to contend with it or not.
 
I'm fairly sure that the Off-Road vehicles all get upgraded shocks (like baby 5100's or something to that effect, Toyota seems to like using those OEM Bilstein shocks for their Off-Road trim Trucks and SUVs) which is likely the main improvement in ride quality rather than the KDSS, but it could be a contributing factor on-road too.

It's the KDSS. Does wonders for the nosedive, too.
 
If nothing else, the through line with KDSS repairs seems to be corrosion. I wonder if that is part of the reason KDSS is not even available in some regions whereas California/Colorado it is quite common.

Would love to see the repair bill/quote as it really seems the point of it was the dealer not wanting to touch it.
 
Yes, and the SR5's feel like those early 2000's Camrys. I vomitted twice in my Cousin's early 2000's Camry. This is one of the reasons I had always preferred Honda/Acura cars. It is preference though. I do prefer the firmer ride that Honda's tend to have.

I think it is important for a prospective 4Runner owner to test drive both before deciding. I actually ordered the KDSS option and bought the vehicle outright before ever driving it. I had done a lot of research and felt like I didn't need the test drive. Drove off in my new 4Runner with KDSS feeling validated instantly.

I do expect my KDSS to last the life of the vehicle.

Let me guess, you probably get seasick too. I own two saltwater boats and never get seasick, nor have I ever been motion sick in an automobile. I also don't slam the breaks on every stop like the pink-hatted clown in the video.

The best riding car we've ever owned was a 1974 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. It turned any road into a flat calm lake ride.

Self-verification motive:
the desire to seek information about oneself that confirms one’s chronic self-views, regardless of whether this information is good or bad. This desire is often stronger than the self-enhancement motive, wherein people seek favorable information about themselves, or the self-assessment motive, wherein people seek accurate information about themselves. People seek self-verification (a) by gravitating toward situations and relationship partners in which they will receive self-confirmation, (b) by striving to elicit self-verifying feedback through their behavior, and (c) by selectively attending to, recalling, and interpreting evaluations in ways that tend to maintain their own views of themselves. [first proposed in 1983 by U.S. social psychologist William B. Swann (1952–  )]

Layman's translation: I bought and paid for it, therefore it is the best.
 
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Let me guess, you probably get seasick too. The best riding car we've ever owned was a 1974 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. It turned any road into a flat calm lake ride.

Self-verification motive:
the desire to seek information about oneself that confirms one’s chronic self-views, regardless of whether this information is good or bad. This desire is often stronger than the self-enhancement motive, wherein people seek favorable information about themselves, or the self-assessment motive, wherein people seek accurate information about themselves. People seek self-verification (a) by gravitating toward situations and relationship partners in which they will receive self-confirmation, (b) by striving to elicit self-verifying feedback through their behavior, and (c) by selectively attending to, recalling, and interpreting evaluations in ways that tend to maintain their own views of themselves. [first proposed in 1983 by U.S. social psychologist William B. Swann (1952–  )]

Layman's translation: I bought and paid for it, therefore it is the best.


The golden days of the automobile, before manufacturers thought drivers cared about useless things like body roll and made such adjustments to ruin the ride of cars that would otherwise be a dream to drive.

RIP couches on wheels with V8’s


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It's the KDSS. Does wonders for the nosedive, too.

Nose dive/lift is less with KDSS?? I'm no suspension expert, but seems like a fatter sway bar would only improve cross-vehicle weight shift, not front to back. I drove our nephew's SR5 a year or so ago to see if we wanted a 5th Gen 4Runner. The body lean in turns and nosedive was enough of a turnoff that I decided if we were going to a get 5th Gen 4runner, it had to have KDSS. So when it came time to buy a new vehicle in March of this year, I never compared a non-KDSS 4Runner to the KDSS ORP we bought, but can't believe the nose dive/lift could be much worse on a non-KDSS vehicle!
 
Let me guess, you probably get seasick too. I own two saltwater boats and never get seasick, nor have I ever been motion sick in an automobile. I also don't slam the breaks on every stop like the pink-hatted clown in the video.

The best riding car we've ever owned was a 1974 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. It turned any road into a flat calm lake ride.

Self-verification motive:
the desire to seek information about oneself that confirms one’s chronic self-views, regardless of whether this information is good or bad. This desire is often stronger than the self-enhancement motive, wherein people seek favorable information about themselves, or the self-assessment motive, wherein people seek accurate information about themselves. People seek self-verification (a) by gravitating toward situations and relationship partners in which they will receive self-confirmation, (b) by striving to elicit self-verifying feedback through their behavior, and (c) by selectively attending to, recalling, and interpreting evaluations in ways that tend to maintain their own views of themselves. [first proposed in 1983 by U.S. social psychologist William B. Swann (1952–  )]

Layman's translation: I bought and paid for it, therefore it is the best.

He slams on the brakes to show the bounce. Nosedive is bad. Body roll is bad. Sounds like you adapt your driving to mitigate those faults. It is quite likely that the 6th gen won’t have those issues, thereby reducing the need for KDSS.

KDSS is not supposed to be the best. It is a mitigator/bandaid for perhaps the 4Runner’s biggest issue (on-road nosedive and lean).
 
Nose dive/lift is less with KDSS?? I'm no suspension expert, but seems like a fatter sway bar would only improve cross-vehicle weight shift, not front to back. I drove our nephew's SR5 a year or so ago to see if we wanted a 5th Gen 4Runner. The body lean in turns and nosedive was enough of a turnoff that I decided if we were going to a get 5th Gen 4runner, it had to have KDSS. So when it came time to buy a new vehicle in March of this year, I never compared a non-KDSS 4Runner to the KDSS ORP we bought, but can't believe the nose dive/lift could be much worse on a non-KDSS vehicle!

According to a couple suspension gurus and The Car Care Nut, it does reduce nose dive. My personal experience suggest this as well. I think it has to do with how the hydraulic fluid transfers.

Perhaps this has nothing to do with it, but the KDSS actually has LESS wheel articulation when both wheels on an axle hit a bump at the same time. It has more articulation than the stock and TRD Pro suspension when the articulation is needed on either the driver or passenger side of the vehicle.

Lastly, I imagine nosedive is not desired is any racing situation. Toyota uses KDSS on all its Baja 4Runners.

But yeah, on this forum people have been adamant about KDSS not reducing nosedive. However, all the videos I have seen suggest otherwise. Nosedive was my #1 concern (not body lean). Since vehicle break-in I have tested my KDSS a lot in hard braking situations. My 4Runner’s nosedive appears to be drastically reduced.

Edit: we are all aware that KDSS is not just a sway bar? I am guessing when you slam the brakes, fluid is not transferring to the rear. It stays up front, keep the nose from diving. I have genuinely have no idea. Just a shot-in-the-dark guess. This same phenomenon may be occurring when going over obstacles with both front wheels at the same time (hence the reduced articulation) as opposed to approaching the obstacle with either the left or right wheel first.
 
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RobS10 has it right. KDSS has no magical ability to reduce nose dive. In essence, it really is “just a sway bar,” but one that is hydraulically actuated. Like any sway bar, the KDSS sway bar works as a torsion spring to resist differential motion between each side of an axle’s suspension. It doesn’t do anything to resist equal motion of both sides, such as during hard braking — mechanically, it can’t. It doesn’t matter how much hydraulic pressure is applied to the piston, or whether the amount is different front to rear. When both sides move equally, all the sway bar can do is passively rotate around its long axis.

KDSS does not have less articulation than other T4R suspensions. If it has less overall travel, it’s only because of limitations imposed by the KDSS design, not because of any action the hydraulic system is taking.
 
He slams on the brakes to show the bounce. Nosedive is bad. Body roll is bad. Sounds like you adapt your driving to mitigate those faults. It is quite likely that the 6th gen won’t have those issues, thereby reducing the need for KDSS.

KDSS is not supposed to be the best. It is a mitigator/bandaid for perhaps the 4Runner’s biggest issue (on-road nosedive and lean).

There isn’t a car or truck out there that won’t nose dive when you stop like that.

“Since vehicle break-in I have tested my KDSS a lot in hard braking situations. My 4Runner’s nosedive appears to be drastically reduced.”

Compared to what? Do you have a 4Runner without KDSS, or are you basing it on some idiot who made a video of him slamming the brakes on a 4Runner with worn out stock shocks?

You should be driving a Crown Victoria and gulping Dramamine. Just stop with your BS.
 
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There isn’t a car or truck out there that won’t nose dive when you stop like that.

“Since vehicle break-in I have tested my KDSS a lot in hard braking situations. My 4Runner’s nosedive appears to be drastically reduced.”

Compared to what? Do you have a 4Runner without KDSS, or are you basing it on some idiot who made a video of him slamming the brakes on a 4Runner with worn out stock shocks?

You should be driving a Crown Victoria and gulping Dramamine. Just stop with your BS.

Almost all vehicles have nose dive. Agreed. And it's not BS that a KDSS-equipped 4Runner has less nosedive than the vanilla suspension.

And no, I am not basing my results on the video. When you drove a KDSS-equipped 4Runner you noticed no difference?
 
RobS10 has it right. KDSS has no magical ability to reduce nose dive. In essence, it really is “just a sway bar,” but one that is hydraulically actuated. Like any sway bar, the KDSS sway bar works as a torsion spring to resist differential motion between each side of an axle’s suspension. It doesn’t do anything to resist equal motion of both sides, such as during hard braking — mechanically, it can’t. It doesn’t matter how much hydraulic pressure is applied to the piston, or whether the amount is different front to rear. When both sides move equally, all the sway bar can do is passively rotate around its long axis.

KDSS does not have less articulation than other T4R suspensions. If it has less overall travel, it’s only because of limitations imposed by the KDSS design, not because of any action the hydraulic system is taking.

Like I mentioned earlier, everyone on the forum says KDSS does not affect nosedive. In my experience, nosedive is less on a KDSS-equipped 4Runner. There are some auto channels on Youtube that also state that KDSS reduces nosedive. I don't remember all the channels. But I do remember The Car Care Nut (a popular Toyota maintenance channel) explicitly stated that a 4Runner with KDSS has less nose dive than the regular suspension (non x-reas).

Now you can say that the people that are saying this are "just some guys on YouTube." But we are all "just some guys" on an internet forum. The only difference is that the YT guys are putting a face behind their statements. Not saying this gives credibility, but The Car Care Nut really knows his stuff. He is very precise.

EDIT: It is possible that it is not KDSS specifically that is reducing the nose-dive, but just that a KDSS-equipped 4runner has less of it. Why, I do not know. There might be something else on KDSS-equipped 4Runners that is different compared to SR5's suspension.
 
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EDIT: It is possible that it is not KDSS specifically that is reducing the nose-dive, but just that a KDSS-equipped 4runner has less of it. Why, I do not know. There might be something else on KDSS-equipped 4Runners that is different compared to SR5's suspension.

Not only possible but probable as looking up parts diagrams the KDSS equipped 4Runners have different shock and spring part numbers then then SR5's . They are listed as for Dynamic suspension and it shows Venture edition have them too. Who knew?

I would bet big bucks they use stiffer springs and the shocks are valved differently. Shocks and springs are what determines the amount of "nose dive" not sway bars.
Most if not all aftermarket suspensions are good at reducing nose dive .
 
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RobS10 has it right. KDSS has no magical ability to reduce nose dive. In essence, it really is “just a sway bar,” but one that is hydraulically actuated. Like any sway bar, the KDSS sway bar works as a torsion spring to resist differential motion between each side of an axle’s suspension. It doesn’t do anything to resist equal motion of both sides, such as during hard braking — mechanically, it can’t. It doesn’t matter how much hydraulic pressure is applied to the piston, or whether the amount is different front to rear. When both sides move equally, all the sway bar can do is passively rotate around its long axis.

KDSS does not have less articulation than other T4R suspensions. If it has less overall travel, it’s only because of limitations imposed by the KDSS design, not because of any action the hydraulic system is taking.


Now if you brake in a turn, or brake descending a hill on an angle, the “dive” will be asymmetrical and then KDSS will have something to do.


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Hi all, Our local Toyota dealer quoted me $10,000 to fix the KDSS system on my 2010 4R Trail, with 220K miles. The KDSS light comes on now and then, and they said it was very rusty (salty upper Midwest roads) and leaking slightly from the unit. The $10K is to replace the unit and all four lines. Does this sound right to you? Many thanks for sharing your insights!!

I do most of the repairs on my rig but for fun I recently called my local Toyota dealer to get an estimate for LABOR ONLY for the following:

- install brake pads - all around
- install rotors - all around
- install front CV axles

The total time it took me to replace the above items was 2 hours total and that is me working by myself on the ground with jack stands and manual wrenches.

Toyota said it was an 8 hour job and quoted me $1,200 for labor only.

I get that some things we have to take into the dealership but it's clear the dealers are straight up lying and ripping people off.
 
I do most of the repairs on my rig but for fun I recently called my local Toyota dealer to get an estimate for LABOR ONLY for the following:

- install brake pads - all around
- install rotors - all around
- install front CV axles

The total time it took me to replace the above items was 2 hours total and that is me working by myself on the ground with jack stands and manual wrenches.

Toyota said it was an 8 hour job and quoted me $1,200 for labor only.

I get that some things we have to take into the dealership but it's clear the dealers are straight up lying and ripping people off.


That sounds more like an issue with Toyota and what they set as the labor hours in the book.


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