15 years old and Plan B

[wadle5]

Do yourself a favor a stop trying to debate with people. Its obvious you are incapable of doing so. You have no concrete argument and resort to personal attacks. That shows far less intelligence than any dumb witted comment could.

But this in itself isnt a personal attack?!? With several good arguments and facts brought the majority of peoples response has just been opinions and personal attacks on Thai. But congrats on passing the blame....

 

[mijbr90190]

He has said nothing debate worthy the past few pages. His comments consist of personal attacks. Mine have included my many viewpoints on the topic and were without personal attacks until my previous post. He couldnt answer anything i said with a concrete answer or anything even relevent to what i posted. He has nothing to support his position other than these attacks to make his points ( or lack thereof) seem more plausible. Im done with this thread.

 

[Thai]

Mine have included my many viewpoints on the topic

Im done with this thread.

His many viewpoints! Hilarious stuff dude. The snot and fetus analogy. The insignificance of a fetus. Your viewpoint that Plan B is the answer to teen pregos. Oh yeah, very deep and profound viewpoints you have there.

How old are you? What education level have you achieve? My guess is you're probably 15-18 years old with education level of a 9th grader? Who are you?! Please, don't say, "I am BATMAN." :laugh:

 

[bofa]

I have to side with Thai here only because I've been in his shoes in some of these debates... comparing snot to a fetus makes pretty much anything else you say about the topic irrelevant. It might be time to bow out... eace:

 

[eddiebx]

Id rather the 15 year olds would take the pill instead of bringing something into this world they cant take care of. If a fetus is considered life then i guess im a murderer for sneezing into a tissue and throwing it out. You cant expect these kids to be the best and make the best decisions. Things like this need to be implimented so we are not bringing life into the world that cant be taken care or burden someone else

Good parenting or not, unless you want to follow your children everywhere they go, this stuff happens. I wouldnt be happy with my daughter if she came home pregnant, id be furious in fact. But the first place we would go is to get plan b. A child is a serious matter and i dont think a young woman would be responsible enough for it. Yea its a popr decision at that age but shit happens, you cant rely on your stupid bible or good parenting to guide these kids completely. When mom and dad are around they arent naturally going to test the limits.

He has said nothing debate worthy the past few pages. His comments consist of personal attacks. Mine have included my many viewpoints on the topic and were without personal attacks until my previous post. He couldnt answer anything i said with a concrete answer or anything even relevent to what i posted. He has nothing to support his position other than these attacks to make his points ( or lack thereof) seem more plausible. Im done with this thread.

So just to recap here...some of your concrete sticking points are:
1) an unborn fetus essential amounts to nasal discharge
2) you would attempt to administer the Plan B pill AFTER someone is pregnant

If I may ask, how is one to give you a concrete answer completely relevant to your argument, if your position makes no sense in the first place?

And while you're on the subject of personal attacks, could you explain exactly how does calling one's bible stupid not qualify as a personal attack? To some, that's pretty much as personal as it gets.

 

[Thai]

One thing I don't get is why those of you who say it is the parents responsibility are so keen on the idea of imposing laws on other parent's kids.

The government NOT preventing the legal sale of condoms or the Plan B pill does not hurt your kids. It just means that other people's kids get access.

I am always amazed by people who so badly want to stop big government or scream about the government but on issues like this WANT the government to block/outlaw items from sale which have been determined to be safe.

On issues like this I'm more libertarian leaning -sorry.

Brian, the problem is that the government is NOT putting parents in charge. They are giving it to teens with little knowledge or decision making powers a very powerful medication of unknown long-term effects.

The difference b/w this and a condom is that a condom has no side effects at all (other than maybe skin irritation) AND condoms also prevent STDs (HIV, Herpes, Hepatitis, etc.). Teens don't really care about any of this...thus, the "hidden" benefits of condoms are great. Plan B provides a "Get Out of Jail Free" card that may seem perfect now but may have long-term effects that you and I may pay for. Plan B will likely make teens forget all about STDs.

I am not asking to delete Plan B altogether. It is useful...such as after rape cases or other extraordinary circumstances. But it must be given out under responsible conditions. Is this Plan B as safe as Tylenol? Is it as safe as baby Aspirin?

Does Plan B hurt my daughter? No, not directly (hopefully). However, it creates an atmosphere of "I don't care" and "Lets get it on," which thus increase peer pressure to everyone. Is parenting hard enough already without further stimulus from peer pressure?

How is it being determined safe?? Tell me. By the same folks who said hormonal replacements are safe? By the same folks who said Prilosec is safe? And here we are limiting Claritin-D behind the counter (need driver's license registration) because of Pseudoephedrine. I wonder which causes more of our tax money to go to waste and injury to our kids, not just medically but in the grand scheme of things (now and future)...Pseudoephedrine or Plan B?

Is limiting Claritin-D behind the counter a support bigger government? Really? I did not realize that.

 

[Thai]

Let's not compare condoms to Plan B.

Anyone who has used a condom will know its limitations. To be honest, I hate condoms! (This may explain why I have 3 kids!) The reason why most folks don't use them is because they take away a lot from sex. The feel is just not there...no matter how much Trojan wants you to believe the opposite. They dry up and crack...thus, limited "shelf life." They are not cheap. Although condoms are an excellent tool to have, it is quite obvious why it has not achieved its societal goals of limiting unplanned pregnancies and STDs. Why? They ONLY work IF you actually USE THEM.

Plan B is different. You can quote me data saying how condoms did not lead to more sex etc.. And I will tell you that Plan B will be different. For most teens, the WORST THING that can happen to them is pregnancy. Agree? No, they don't think about STDs, esp. in the heat of the moment with tons of peer pressure. Pregnancy is on everyone's mind. It is the ONE thing that she cannot hide from her parents...and is legally binding to the male partner. What does Plan B provide? It gives teens a "have cake AND eat it too" mentality...something that condoms could NEVER provide. It allows them to have splendid intimate sex with all the pleasure of such activity...without the one main consequence that is an absolute killjoy within 12 weeks of sex...vomiting and testing positive for pregnancy.

Plan B is THE Holy Grail for teens. Time will tell if I am right. And I am always right.

 

[JohnnyT]

Let's not compare condoms to Plan B.

Anyone who has used a condom will know its limitations. To be honest, I hate condoms! (This may explain why I have 3 kids!) The reason why most folks don't use them is because they take away a lot from sex. The feel is just not there...no matter how much Trojan wants you to believe the opposite. They dry up and crack...thus, limited "shelf life." They are not cheap. Although condoms are an excellent tool to have, it is quite obvious why it has not achieved its societal goals of limiting unplanned pregnancies and STDs. Why? They ONLY work IF you actually USE THEM.

Plan B is different. You can quote me data saying how condoms did not lead to more sex etc.. And I will tell you that Plan B will be different. For most teens, the WORST THING that can happen to them is pregnancy. Agree? No, they don't think about STDs, esp. in the heat of the moment with tons of peer pressure. Pregnancy is on everyone's mind. It is the ONE thing that she cannot hide from her parents...and is legally binding to the male partner. What does Plan B provide? It gives teens a "have cake AND eat it too" mentality...something that condoms could NEVER provide. It allows them to have splendid intimate sex with all the pleasure of such activity...without the one main consequence that is an absolute killjoy within 12 weeks of sex...vomiting and testing positive for pregnancy.

Plan B is THE Holy Grail for teens. Time will tell if I am right. And I am always right.

Sex class by Thai. Sign up at the door.

I think I'll go be sick now.

Oh, but don't forget...... Government is out to get us !!

 

[-JD-]

You miss my point completely. I just find it humorous how our society (liberalism) has gone to extremes to change our culture at the roots to something that frankly is very disturbing for a parent. We are wiping out our values and teachings that have made our society great. We are giving way to our "urges" and "sexual freedom." It is a sexual revolution, haven't you heard? Austin Powers would love it.

We live in capitalist society and sex sells.

So, you have given up on good parenting, JD?? Sorry, your parents may not have done a good job on you, but mine have...and I see/feel/know the benefit of such and will, hopefully, pass it on in raising my kids. And YES, I DO THINK THAT GOOD PARENTING MAKES A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. THAT is no lie. THAT is what separates me from the liberals. THAT is what separates me from you.

Woah, woah, woah, I never said i've given up on good parenting, that it isn't effective, or anything of the sort. I said I know that good parenting will not be 100% effective. Not sure why you then have to get personal and insult me and my family?

IMO good parenting will not be as effective at preventing pregnancy as Plan B will be. That does not mean that I am advocating for unprotected sex, or advocating it as a primary contraceptive. Far from it. I'm just not naive enough to think that well raised kids will NEVER make the mistake of having unprotected sex, or that we will EVER be able to FORCE parents to do their jobs to 100% of their ability. Once you accept that those things will not happen it makes sense to have as a backup option, or "Plan B" if you will.

Urges you say? I am sure that there are powerful urges at any age. I really want a Rolex watch at a local Rolex dealer. Does that mean that I can shoplift? Since shoplifting has been happening forever and everyone does it (even old people, according to Seinfeld), should we make a law or "Get Out of Jail Free" card for those that do it? Maybe we should only allow one card per month? And you can ONLY use it 24 hours AFTER the shoplifting episode. BUT, this card does not protect you from a beatdown by the mall cop nor does it prevent you from the traumatic effect of a taser. People should have the freedom to dress themselves up with high-end bling!

Sex = shoplifting? Again, i guess this comes down to a fundamentally different view on sex. I dont see it as some terrible illicit thing. Would you be in favor of laws against sex?

Did I read that someone compared fetus to blowing his nose??!! Yeah, you ignored that part completely and focus on cocaine analogy. Nice...I can see where your brain is going with that. :smashputer:

That had nothing to do with me. Am I responsible for debating every point someone else makes against you? wtf?

 

[-JD-]

Is Plan B 100% successful at preventing teen pregnancy??? Wanna bet?! You talk big...lets see if you are willing to put your wallet where your mouth is. Oh wait, if you don't think that Plan B is 100% effective, then why are you expecting that parenting be 100% effective?? Why this double standard, JD??

Not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that WHEN good parenting isn't effective their needs to be a "Plan B" to prevent a teen from ruining their future.

I would bet that GOOD PARENTING is far more successful (and SAFER medically) than Plan B now AND in the long run for a kid. I know that this may come as a shock to you JD, but good parenting has OTHER BENEFITS besides abstinence!! Shocking concept, isn't it?! No, let the liberals destroy the foundation of such...but, we will always have Plan B for all the girls of all ages, right?

Condescending attitude aside, how do you turn all the parents in this country into 'good parents'? Impossible goal? Do you believe that even if all the children in America had these 'good parents' there would be NO teen pregnancy?

Regulate Plan B? Nah, it is already being brought up that Plan B is for all ages. How many 10 (or 15) year olds know about STDs or HIVs? Herpes? Herpes, like love, is forever ya know! How many know what HIV/AIDS can do? Kids probably just know it from seeing Magic Johnson and how good he looks! How many think that Plan B is the cure all?

Perhaps this is a regional thing but I'm quite sure that kids around here are aware of STD's. I was when I was that age. I dont think that any of them see plan B as a cure all. Not sure what your basis is for thinking that this is going to become some kind of replacement for regular contraception?

 

[Thai]

Perhaps this is a regional thing but I'm quite sure that kids around here are aware of STD's. I was when I was that age. I dont think that any of them see plan B as a 'cure all'. Not sure what your basis is for thinking that this is going to become some kind of replacement for regular contraception?

Are you sure? I see this on a daily basis at my ER. Why do you think Valtrex is so popular? :tape:

Wanna bet that Plan B won't be used for just last resort emergencies?

 

[Thai]

IMO good parenting will not be as effective at preventing pregnancy as Plan B will be.

I'm just not naive enough to think that well raised kids will NEVER make the mistake of having unprotected sex, or that we will EVER be able to FORCE parents to do their jobs to 100% of their ability. Once you accept that those things will not happen it makes sense to have as a backup option, or "Plan B" if you will.

Sex = shoplifting? Again, i guess this comes down to a fundamentally different view on sex. I dont see it as some terrible illicit thing. Would you be in favor of laws against sex?

How do you know that Plan B will be more effective than good parenting? Again, this is why I ask if this what separates me from you...I had amazing parents that kept a close eye on my and my brothers. Nothing personal.

I see that you use absolute terms when talking about parenting, but not use the same terms when describing Plan B. Why? Instead of investing in a backup solution with questionable long-term effects, why not provide resources for better parenting, why not slow down the liberal movement to make everything unreligious and why we need to move so far away from traditional values??

We have always had teen pregos. True. But, why do you think that we suddenly NEED Plan B? Is it because our social atmosphere/culture has changed?

Laws against sex? Is that what I wrote? Or did you completely miss my point AGAIN?!

 

[-JD-]

How do you know that Plan B will be more effective than good parenting? Again, this is why I ask if this what separates me from you...I had amazing parents that kept a close eye on my and my brothers. Nothing personal.

I guess I would say first hand experience and observation. Both when I was a teenager and now as an adult I've seen great kids with great parents make poor decisions.

I see that you use absolute terms when talking about parenting, but not use the same terms when describing Plan B. Why? Instead of investing in a backup solution with questionable long-term effects, why not provide resources for better parenting, why not slow down the liberal movement to make everything unreligious and why we need to move so far away from traditional values??

I agree about better resources for parents. Planned parenthood? lol. I'm not sure how you, me, or anyone 'slows down the liberal movement'? its not as if there is one mastermind somewhere orchestrating things.

We have always had teen pregos. True. But, why do you think that we suddenly NEED Plan B? Is it because our social atmosphere/culture has changed?

I dont think we NEED it. I think it is a better alternative for some women than abortion.

Laws against sex? Is that what I wrote? Or did you completely miss my point AGAIN?!

I guess I've missed your point again. You were comparing having sex to shoplifting....

 

[wadle5]

Regardless of your political and/or religious affiliations, "Agenda" is an important movie to watch with an open mind and heart


It is well worth the time regardless of your political and/or religious affiliations.

http://vimeo.com/63749370

 

[HCurphy]

I have been having safe sex since I was 15. I think it was yet another warm welcome into the real world. (If you catch my drift )
I guess my life is going to fall apart at any minute now though, I guess I should start preparing for that.

edit: and Thai, I have to say. I miss the rigorous evidence based arguments I witnessed in some of you're previous off topic posts.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Brian, the problem is that the government is NOT putting parents in charge. They are giving it to teens with little knowledge or decision making powers a very powerful medication of unknown long-term effects.

Sorry but I am very sure you are misstating some basic facts.

To set the record straight ...
* the government is not giving Plan B to anyone, a person must buy it from a store
* the ruling makes over the counter sales possible for minors - that is all
* as a parent YOU can teach your kids whatever you want and YOU can teach them not to buy it
* it is just like the condom argument of the past because back then people often for religious reasons tried to legislate against over the counter access to condoms.

Also as far as the law is concerned the ruling doesn't trump state law. The states can still pass laws requiring adult permission or showing an ID or whatever. This regulatory change only says the FDA will not restrict access by using its regulatory authority. Again it doesn't mean the states can't come up with their own new restrictions.

 

[Thai]

I guess my life is going to fall apart at any minute now though, I guess I should start preparing for that.

Your life would have fallen apart if you did not use condom! But, no worries, you now have Plan B.

 

[Thai]

Sorry but I am very sure you are misstating some basic facts.

Where did I misstate anything. Of course, you have to pay for it. But there are no restrictions.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Where did I misstate anything. Of course, you have to pay for it. But there are no restrictions.

I corrected your comment in bold so you would understand what I am pointing out as a bogus claim.

 

[Thai]

I corrected your comment in bold so you would understand what I am pointing out as a bogus claim.

Geez, is that the best that you can come up with? Wow. Desperation at its best.