I recently purchased a 97 with the 3.4 in it that was hesitating and had the CEL on. When I ran codes it said multiple cylinder misfire and a separate code for each cylinder totaling 7 codes. I was thinking coil packs plugs and wires so I went ahead and got it. Then the owner informed me that he had taken it to a shop a couple weeks prior to have the water pump and timing belt replaced. He said a week after he got it back, it start the hesitation so he parked it and sold it to me. When I was pulling it apart, the crank pulley was loose as well as several other bolt which indicted to me that they didnt have much of a clue what they were doing. When I got the belt exposed, I found that the cams were about 20 degrees advanced?(clockwise) ahead of the crank when it was TDC. I figured, "duh", so I matched up all the timing marks on the crank and cams, reinstalled the belt and reassembled the truck. Once i got it back together, it would not start. It was getting spark to the plugs and fuel to the cylinders so I reluctantly tore it down again to find it hadnt slipped. I wanted to get everyone's opinion before I put it back together. The cam position sensor was not pinched during reassembly. What is strange about it is that it has a ground wire that goes nowhere. There are only 2 wires going the plug and the ground wire just tucks back into the insulation. Is it supposed to be that way? I was also told that it may be 180 degrees out of phase but I have no idea what that means. Any help will be very much appreciated as I am very frustrated at this point. Thank you very much in advance for your time.
1997 4runner not starting after timing belt replacement
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1. He clearly lied to you. Under most states, a truck may be sold AS IS and the buyer has no protection unless the seller is aware of a harmful defect and does not disclose said information.
- Meaning. It is legal to say "shes a pos and might not run great" and have the engine blow, the seller not liable.
- It is ILLEGAL in most states to openly lie about a know situation. A mis - characteristicization, to "help" get a vehicle sold falls under this.
I gotta say, it sounds fishy. To take a perfectly functioning truck to have the water/timing belt done at a pretty decent expense and then just sell it immediately after because it isn't running right? I call bull****. Garages are liable for their work. Not the lenght it lasts, mind you, but in the initial work. If a shop is paid to do a timing belt and they do it wrongly, they are liable.
So. Why didn't he have the fix it?
Simple. He lied. Either the timing belt change isn't related, or he had someone do it and they KNOWINGLY messed it up.
If you check my posts you will see I am usually a hard ass and come at things with a typical older "should have done your research" attitude, and you should have. You should of had it checked, but my honest gut feeling is this man lied to you. He committed fraud in an attempt to sell a broken truck and that is illegal and unacceptable. I will willinging buy a beater, IF YOU TELL ME ahead of time. Many people will. I like tinkering on things. If you lie to me, however, well that pisses me off.
AS for your problem. Who knows. It ran with timing off, and now, it won't when you have supposedly corrected timing? That is odd to me and indicates something is really off.
I am not a lawyer, but by virtue of my education and employment, up on legal issues more than the average joe. I suggest you look up auto car fraud laws in your state and possible find a friend lawyer to chat with.
His story stinks.
- Meaning. It is legal to say "shes a pos and might not run great" and have the engine blow, the seller not liable.
- It is ILLEGAL in most states to openly lie about a know situation. A mis - characteristicization, to "help" get a vehicle sold falls under this.
I gotta say, it sounds fishy. To take a perfectly functioning truck to have the water/timing belt done at a pretty decent expense and then just sell it immediately after because it isn't running right? I call bull****. Garages are liable for their work. Not the lenght it lasts, mind you, but in the initial work. If a shop is paid to do a timing belt and they do it wrongly, they are liable.
So. Why didn't he have the fix it?
Simple. He lied. Either the timing belt change isn't related, or he had someone do it and they KNOWINGLY messed it up.
If you check my posts you will see I am usually a hard ass and come at things with a typical older "should have done your research" attitude, and you should have. You should of had it checked, but my honest gut feeling is this man lied to you. He committed fraud in an attempt to sell a broken truck and that is illegal and unacceptable. I will willinging buy a beater, IF YOU TELL ME ahead of time. Many people will. I like tinkering on things. If you lie to me, however, well that pisses me off.
AS for your problem. Who knows. It ran with timing off, and now, it won't when you have supposedly corrected timing? That is odd to me and indicates something is really off.
I am not a lawyer, but by virtue of my education and employment, up on legal issues more than the average joe. I suggest you look up auto car fraud laws in your state and possible find a friend lawyer to chat with.
His story stinks.
pauls4runner
New member
the wire that doesnt go anywhere, is that off of the sensor? 180 off would be in relation to the crank and cam. every 2 full turns the crank makes, the cams rotate once.
Kurtis
New member
:iagree:Correct. Thus, making it a 4 stroke engine... Even though the TDC arrows indicate TDC, piston number # 1 may be at just the opposite. Bottom Dead Center. The most likely reason it will not start is that it is 180° out.
I went back and read my post and I accidentally made it sound bad but I did know about the timing job just didn't suspect it as an issue until I had pulled the timing cover. The shop obviously had no clue what they were doing so I didn't want them to touch it again anyway.
The there are 3 wires that come off the sensor. two are red and yellow, and the other is very clearly attached to the sensor mounting bracket and is black. it goes into the wiring insulation, but the only wires that come out and go to the connector are the red and yellow. The black dead ends inside the insulation.
And as far as "phase" goes, I want the number one to be at the top of the cylinder with all the marks lined up? And you can make fun of me but which cyl is number one. With my range rover it was on the drivers side but some one told me with this engine it is on the passenger side.
The there are 3 wires that come off the sensor. two are red and yellow, and the other is very clearly attached to the sensor mounting bracket and is black. it goes into the wiring insulation, but the only wires that come out and go to the connector are the red and yellow. The black dead ends inside the insulation.
And as far as "phase" goes, I want the number one to be at the top of the cylinder with all the marks lined up? And you can make fun of me but which cyl is number one. With my range rover it was on the drivers side but some one told me with this engine it is on the passenger side.
So I turned the cranked forward 360 degrees then lined up all the marks again. I also pulled the intake to clean the valve covers and replace the gaskets, plugs, and wire. When I put it all back together last night I left all the accessories and belts off the front engine to confirm that it would start before I put everything back. I tried to start the engine, it turned over for a second, then kicked and I heard a muffled pop so I released the ignition switch. I walked over to the front of the truck and there was a haze of smoke on the passenger side that I am unsure where it came from. I tried to start it again and now it just turns over like it did before. I don't think I should be working on cars lol.
Kurtis
New member
I guess that would explain why it was 20º advanced in the first place?
scottyb
New member
This seems strange to me. I wonder if your cam shaft sprockets don't have the pins that line them up in the correct orientation with the actual cam shafts. That would be my guess. I've done the timing belt quite a few times now with my head gasket issues. Someone might have lost the pins and just put the camshaft sprockets on the best they could, and when the bolts were torqued to spec they slipped your camshaft sprockets ~20 degrees.
In this picture you can see the small groove on the inside of the camshaft sprocket where the pin goes.
Here you can see the pins sticking out of both cam shafts.
Good luck!
In this picture you can see the small groove on the inside of the camshaft sprocket where the pin goes.
Here you can see the pins sticking out of both cam shafts.
Good luck!
scottyb
New member
The timing belt tensioner is definitely an option too.
I also forgot that there is a woodruff key which lines up the crankshaft timing gear with the crankshaft. That could be missing too and causing the slipping problems.
If you have to line up the timing marks on the camshaft sprockets and crankshaft differently than the service manual dictates for the motor to run, one of the camshaft pins or the woodruff key is missing. Those small pieces make sure everything is lined up.
I also forgot that there is a woodruff key which lines up the crankshaft timing gear with the crankshaft. That could be missing too and causing the slipping problems.
If you have to line up the timing marks on the camshaft sprockets and crankshaft differently than the service manual dictates for the motor to run, one of the camshaft pins or the woodruff key is missing. Those small pieces make sure everything is lined up.
