199mm TBU Questions

[Devbot]

Hey all. Been trying to pull the trigger on TBU parts as I've started to get the dreaded shimmy, and decided to go with 199mm parts but despite all the information I'm struggling to find much outside the 231mm offering. My questions were;
*Is there a preference or limit to rotor diameter? Summit offers a few sizes between 11.7 and 12.6 inches
*Will the dust shield still need to be trimmed to fit the 13WE caliper?
*Solid or slotted/drilled rotors?
*Should the rear drum brakes be replaced as well?
*Are bigger capacity lines required, or will the stock ones work fine? (I'll be extending them to bigger and nicer braided SS Tundra lines from Crown when I do my lift, but am curious if the stock lines will suffice in the mean time or if said lines should be installed now)
Thank you all

 

[TRDteen]

Everything you need to know can be found here: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-...wl-tundra-calipers-rotors.html?highlight=dust

Goodluck!!

 

[T4R2014]

I've been talking about this mod recently. I have warped both of my 199 Tundra brakes. Maybe the thicker rotor makes a difference? I didn't use cheap parts either. I was able to get 20k out of some Brembo blanks and Axxis HD pads before I got minor warpage. I don't blame this setup. I believe what caused the warp was going too long without adjusting the rear drums. Can't lie it stops really nice with that setup - like 'lock up the tires and make smoke' nice. Highly recommend that pad/rotor combo.

My other setup is Powerstop drilled/slotted with their ceramic pads. It doesn't have a nice bite when stopping and somehow puts out more dust than the Brembo/axxis setup. They warped quick and bad. 10k miles and you'd think I used them to stop a 5000lb trailer going downhill. Rear brakes are in proper adjustment with OEM shoes and drum. I'm installing EBC blank rotors with greenstuff 6000 pads now. I'll open the drums to adjust so I have a good baseline.

I have a control. All OEM pads and rotors in factory calipers with properly adjusted rear drums. They have 30k on them and aren't warped. Maybe I just drive this one easier? IDK. Do I recommend the TBU? Not in my case. Maybe I'll try the 231's on an 01-02 one day but otherwise this has been a complete waste of my time and money.

My opinion. Get a good set of pads and rotors (I might even try the Brembo/Axxis setup with factory calipers to achieve that extra bite), and make DAMN sure your drums are in adjustment(they require this more often than you believe). Maybe some people can use that extra stopping power of 231's, but if you have brake warpage issues then I think you should diagnose the root cause first.

I don't even recommend this mod and I have done it twice. Good rotors and pads in the original calipers with properly adjusted drums will stop just as well.

Always remember that no one has ever compared stopping distances between brand new factory brakes and brand new Tundra brakes. New brakes are always an improvement. 199's get you a thicker rotor with the same pad surface area. 231's give you larger pads but mess with pedal feel. Pick what you like but a lot of this is placebo effect. I can warp Tundra brakes really bad too.

From what I can tell the 01-02 4-channel abs braking system handles the 231 calipers with less diminished pedal feel. I tend to avoid any personal accounts on pedal feel on here. Do you know how many people think an 18 inch Magnaflow muffler sounds "perfect"? Same idea.

 

[JZiggy]

I did the 199 a few years ago and used OEM rotors. So far so good as far as warped rotors.

Agree that keeping the rear drums in adjustment is critical for overall braking performance and keeping the fronts from working too hard.

 

[Devbot]

Though this is more of a question for the Lift FAQ, I thought it would be appropriate here too: Do the front brake lines need to be extended/upgraded too, or is it only the rear pair that needs it when going up +2.5-3"?

I've been talking about this mod recently. I have warped both of my 199 Tundra brakes. Maybe the thicker rotor makes a difference? I didn't use cheap parts either. I was able to get 20k out of some Brembo blanks and Axxis HD pads before I got minor warpage. I don't blame this setup. I believe what caused the warp was going too long without adjusting the rear drums. Can't lie it stops really nice with that setup - like 'lock up the tires and make smoke' nice. Highly recommend that pad/rotor combo.
...My opinion. Get a good set of pads and rotors (I might even try the Brembo/Axxis setup with factory calipers to achieve that extra bite), and make DAMN sure your drums are in adjustment(they require this more often than you believe). Maybe some people can use that extra stopping power of 231's, but if you have brake warpage issues then I think you should diagnose the root cause first.

Thanks or the reply, I was actually looking at the powerstop kit (first thing Summit recommended) so I'm glad to hear of someone's take on the matter. I haven't even touched my rear brakes so i guess I probably should do that.

I did the 199 a few years ago and used OEM rotors. So far so good as far as warped rotors.

Agree that keeping the rear drums in adjustment is critical for overall braking performance and keeping the fronts from working too hard.

Did you have to trim up the dust shield?

 

[T4R2014]

Though this is more of a question for the Lift FAQ, I thought it would be appropriate here too: Do the front brake lines need to be extended/upgraded too, or is it only the rear pair that needs it when going up +2.5-3"?

Thanks or the reply, I was actually looking at the powerstop kit (first thing Summit recommended) so I'm glad to hear of someone's take on the matter. I haven't even touched my rear brakes so i guess I probably should do that.

Did you have to trim up the dust shield?

Get to the root cause. Inspect your drums. I noticed the e-brake on the truck with Brembos not holding the weight of it on an incline in neutral anymore. No wonder my damn brembos warped.

Regarding brake lines. No you do not. However, I would highly recommend installing Tacoma brake lines so you don't need to worry about cracking that stupid hardline going to the caliper.

YouTube

You will need to grind the dust shield around the rotor hat area. Just grind off about 1mm. You will see what I mean. Or maybe you won't need to if you adjust the drums and stick with stock. The more "mods" I do the more I realize I can't outsmart the guys who designed it.

 

[WeakSauz]

The more "mods" I do the more I realize I can't outsmart the guys who designed it.

The more you mess around with vehicles, the more this becomes obvious!

 

[gamefreakgc]

Personally, I would avoid slotted or drilled rotors. I went with OEM Toyota Tundra rotors from a dealership, surprisingly they are only $70 each new. They have been a great improvement over stock and have no warping over 4 years now. Drilled and slotted rotors may look fancy but aren't even remotely needed for a daily driven 4Runner. Well, unless you autocross in one.

 

[Devbot]

Thanks for the inputs. This is gonna need my attention sooner than I'd like; think my brakes failed for a split second earlier today. Was coming to a stop (flat ground), and about halfway applied my pedal suddenly depressed fast with almost no resistance and made a fast clicking noise/feel. Since then they're definitely been a little softer/mushier than normal. It all happened so fast, and I instinctively took my foot off and pushed again, so it's hard to tell what happened but like hell I'm gonna allow it again.

 

[formulate]

Was coming to a stop (flat ground), and about halfway applied my pedal suddenly depressed fast with almost no resistance and made a fast clicking noise/feel. Since then they're definitely been a little softer/mushier than normal. It all happened so fast, and I instinctively took my foot off and pushed again, so it's hard to tell what happened but like hell I'm gonna allow it again.

Did you hit a bump or pothole while braking? Sounds like your ABS kicked in.

 

[T4R2014]

Thanks for the inputs. This is gonna need my attention sooner than I'd like; think my brakes failed for a split second earlier today. Was coming to a stop (flat ground), and about halfway applied my pedal suddenly depressed fast with almost no resistance and made a fast clicking noise/feel. Since then they're definitely been a little softer/mushier than normal. It all happened so fast, and I instinctively took my foot off and pushed again, so it's hard to tell what happened but like hell I'm gonna allow it again.

Sounds halfway between you triggering your ABS or your master cylinder going bad. Tundra brakes aren't solving your issues.

 

[Devbot]

Did you hit a bump or pothole while braking? Sounds like your ABS kicked in.

Actually yes, that must be it. Was raining decently too and my tires are as bald as Mr. Clean so I guess that makes sense.
Weird, never had ABS ever kick in before, especially from a 20mph stop.
Edit; had another 4R owner drive my car and said my brakes felt totally fine, maybe a little worn. Might look into replacing the master cylinder as a precaution, seems cheap enough.
Regardless I'll do that and peek at my drums before pulling the trigger. Not in that big a rush anyways. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Dieselchessy]

Sounds like tires should be on your short list.
You probably slid a tire across a paint line or man hole cover, or similar. That’s a tire issue, also exacerbated by warped rotors.

I like the 231 TBU. Never considered the 199, cause it comes with similar dust shield trimming and wheel firmament issues.

But as suggest 4 good brakes is better than 2, so adjust your rears and maybe upgrade the cylinders to 1” if you have the smaller ones. Also check your axle seals aren’t leaking, and flush the brake system with DOT3 fluid.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Sounds halfway between you triggering your ABS or your master cylinder going bad. Tundra brakes aren't solving your issues.

My ABS system used to kick in all the time before the TBU brakes. The 96-98 system isn't that great and will kick in at the slightest loss of traction. After doing to upgrade it takes less pressure to engage the brakes so I've only had the ABS go off a few times when they actually did lose traction. It should help.

 

[Bad Luck]

Actually yes, that must be it. Was raining decently too and my tires are as bald as Mr. Clean so I guess that makes sense.
Weird, never had ABS ever kick in before, especially from a 20mph stop.
Edit; had another 4R owner drive my car and said my brakes felt totally fine, maybe a little worn. Might look into replacing the master cylinder as a precaution, seems cheap enough.
Regardless I'll do that and peek at my drums before pulling the trigger. Not in that big a rush anyways. Thanks for the help guys.

That's your ABS. Nothing wrong with your master cylinder. Replace your tires instead.

 

[Arv]

.

I like the 231 TBU. Never considered the 199, cause it comes with similar dust shield trimming and wheel firmament issues.
.

I thought the 199 does not have the wheel fitment issues that even the 3 spoke fits?

OP - I think this was not answered, yes you also have to modify the dust shield but only a little bit of grinding is needed (no trimming or cutting) where the rotor hat rubs against the middle part of the dust shield, I believe this is shown on the 231 thread mentioned above.

I went with 199s w/OEM rotors because of the more pronounced ABS issue with the 231 and the SS advisory against it. I also do not tow. If you mainly use your rig in fair weather and tow or have armour/additional weight I would definitely consider the 231. The 4runner ABS kicked in too early stock already so messing with the system with a bigger caliper that is not designed for it makes it worse I assume.

Sure you only get a thicker rotor specially if you have the sports ed brake which is bigger than std. but this thickness might be all the difference you need. In terms of people saying why even upgrade to the 199, you probably need a new caliper anyway so might as well replace it with a 199 and you get thicker rotors. If your brake lines are stock, might as well go braided and don't forget the rear hose too (I just got rubber aftermarket for the rear). Lastly,yes make sure your rear brakes are well adjusted to help out the front.

edit: If you're replacing the rear brakes, def. get OEM shoes as I've heard about fitment issues with aftermarket. Also check if your drums can still be turned, the OEM drums are built solid! When mine were turned the first time at 130K I noticed that there was just about 1mm material removed. i wouldn't have worked on my rear brakes but it was soaked in gear oil, so no choice.

 

[Devbot]

Sounds like tires should be on your short list.
You probably slid a tire across a paint line or man hole cover, or similar. That’s a tire issue, also exacerbated by warped rotors.

I like the 231 TBU. Never considered the 199, cause it comes with similar dust shield trimming and wheel firmament issues.

But as suggest 4 good brakes is better than 2, so adjust your rears and maybe upgrade the cylinders to 1” if you have the smaller ones. Also check your axle seals aren’t leaking, and flush the brake system with DOT3 fluid.

I actually have a new set of BFG A/T K02's, just waiting on new wheels and my lift kit to come in so I can put them on. Not about to pay to have the same tires to be mounted and aligned twice (if they would even fit on stock susp.) They're next on my list but brakes can be done in the mean time; the rain should taper off in the next week, maybe two, but people drive like retards year-round. If I recall a few years back my county was in top 3 for worst drivers in the country :behindsofa:
Originally I wanted 199s because I saw a few people on here say they ran into problems with their ABS with 231s, but this also seems like it's largely made up of 01-02 owners. Was also under the impression that the 199s wouldn't require trimming the dust shield, but obviously that isn't true. Since I'm spacing my wheels anyways, and will be carrying extra weight, might just go with 231s now
199s should have no fitment issues, I thought?

I went with 199s w/OEM rotors because of the more pronounced ABS issue with the 231 and the SS advisory against it. I also do not tow. If you mainly use your rig in fair weather and tow or have armour/additional weight I would definitely consider the 231... Sure you only get a thicker rotor specially if you have the sports ed brake which is bigger than std. but this thickness might be all the difference you need...

Thanks for the info! I NEVER tow but will be running about ~400 extra lbs with the additions of bumpers+winch+tire carrier
Indeed I have the SR5 Sport! What exactly does this mean, are you saying?
Thanks for the heads up on the shoes

 

[Arv]

Indeed I have the SR5 Sport! What exactly does this mean, are you saying?

not entirely sure since I'm not familiar with all the 3rd gen year models but I believe the 99-00 sports ed had bigger brake 13" rotors compared to 12"? std. rotors which probably became std in 01-02 since all of them had 16" wheels.

 

[Dieselchessy]

I don’t know where folks got the idea the 199’s clear all the wheels.

It’s a thickness issue, not a length issue. Maybe the 199’s fit under some wheels that 231’s don’t? I haven’t tried every combo.

Need to check your spare as well.

Just one thread of a person having firemen issues.

199mm Caliper Wheel Fitment Issues

 

[T4R2014]

My ABS system used to kick in all the time before the TBU brakes. The 96-98 system isn't that great and will kick in at the slightest loss of traction. After doing to upgrade it takes less pressure to engage the brakes so I've only had the ABS go off a few times when they actually did lose traction. It should help.

I'd argue the opposite.. I started noticing more sensitive abs, like say you come to an abrupt stop and there's a manhole cover in your path. Unless you went from brand new stock brakes to brand new Tundra brakes we can't really know. Not that ABS was that great to begin with.

The ABS is a whole separate issue, and I think it has to do with brake bleeding or just a plain bad ABS pump(maybe more common than we think past 150k).