20 Gallons

[Brveagle]

That's an old wives tale caused by some shoddy engineering by the domestic companies back when they first switched over to in tank fuel pumps. The morons were relying on them being submerged to keep them cool. They learned their lesson and you're not going to hurt them now.

Thats not true.

I dont have the time to argue on the internet, but do some research before spouting off ignorant "facts".

Running on empty: Low gas in the tank can be costly

 

[JayRolla]

Thats not true.

I dont have the time to argue on the internet, but do some research before spouting off ignorant "facts".

Running on empty: Low gas in the tank can be costly

He is not ignorant. He knows his stuff and he is mostly right. I have ran tanks dry and low for over 15 years and never had a pump fail.

The link you posted says is a rare mechanical issue. Does not happen much and usually happens to aftermarket crap pumps, not quality pumps.

 

[BrianSD_42]

[MENTION=101355]Oprah[/MENTION]

Toyota's engineers designed the gas tank and filling tube/system the way they did for a reason and safety in a crash was a significant factor.

Nothing will stop you from filling gas up to the last 1/2" of the top of the filler tube then driving around town but it isn't smart at all.

 

[Oprah]

[MENTION=101355]Oprah[/MENTION]

Toyota's engineers designed the gas tank and filling tube/system the way they did for a reason and safety in a crash was a significant factor.

Nothing will stop you from filling gas up to the last 1/2" of the top of the filler tube then driving around town but it isn't smart at all.

I suppose you are right that there likely is a reason haha. How do you know that safety was a significant factor? Is there other reasons?

 

[Brveagle]

He is not ignorant. He knows his stuff and he is mostly right. I have ran tanks dry and low for over 15 years and never had a pump fail.

The link you posted says is a rare mechanical issue. Does not happen much and usually happens to aftermarket crap pumps, not quality pumps.

I could post links all day long. Just a simply google search reveals multiple results.

The fact remains our pumps are liquid cooled. Just agree to disagree i guess.

 

[02SE]

I suppose you are right that there likely is a reason haha. How do you know that safety was a significant factor?

History.

The importance of the safety of the fuel containment and delivery system, has been a major factor in federal regulations specifying their design.

Examples of poor designs are the Ford Pinto, and GM trucks with side-saddle gas tanks.

 

[jhfleet]

The only reason I've ever heard for not topping off is that the EPA requires a warning against it in the owners manual. And, EPA could care less about damaging anything on the vehicle. Their concern is spillage out the filler neck onto the ground. I've topped off my '96 every fill up since new because I want it to have as much range as it can get and the extra 40 miles or so come in handy. If anything has ever been damaged in the vent system it has escaped my notice.

 

[Oprah]

So it sounds like it comes down to am I willing to take safety risk or not during those first 50 or so miles of the tank.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I have always thought topping off meant running the pump until a 2nd click. This only puts a 1/4 gallon extra in.

OP sounds like he puts 1.5 gallons extra in, until the fuel reaches the top of the lid. That's totally different.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Expansion is why, unless you like the gas fume smell there is no reason to run the risk of fire or worse. Even two gallons is only an extra 30-40 miles per tank, just not worth it.

But seriously, I'm just pissed that we pay almost a dollar more per gallon here in CA!!

:flamethrwoer2:

Maybe Northern California is cheaper, I can find gas in the $2.20's lately. Not too bad, but not as good as say Texas or something. We have way more tax on our gas than other states, even though a lot of the oil is refined here in the Bay Area!

 

[afg10000]

I don't really see what the point is. It's an 18.5 gallon tank. Putting 20 in it is redundant. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. If your canister is fried, fine. Not a cheap part. Why would you want to perhaps risk further damage for a few extra miles? Then again, it is a Toyota, so it can probably handle it -

 

[Oprah]

Then again, it is a Toyota, so it can probably handle it -

That's what I'm banking on I suppose. I thoroughly enjoy the extra range on a pretty regular basis

 

[jeremyc74]

Thats not true.

I dont have the time to argue on the internet, but do some research before spouting off ignorant "facts".

Running on empty: Low gas in the tank can be costly

Ok chief. I'm just an electrical engineer that works in automotive manufacturing.:fishing:

Do you SERIOUSLY think that the engineers at Toyota (or any other company for that matter) are so stupid that they wouldn't consider the fact that a lot of people drive around with low fuel on a regular basis? They built a truck that will go 300k miles and you think they didn't give that a thought? :wtf:

 

[diverscale]

So it sounds like it comes down to am I willing to take safety risk or not during those first 50 or so miles of the tank.

I've very often topped-off, and ran near empty tanks on various vehicles as needed, and never got any of those so called gas fumes, check-engines, broken pumps on low tanks, explosions, EPA agent showing and telling me it's wrong.

It's not like any of those telling you that you will get problems topping off really care anyway.

But thanks for the heads-up, I have not been able to put more than 56 liters (15 gal) when the light is on for a while, so I might have to look into a re-calibration of the fuel sender unit (if that exists)

 

[Tyota89]

I kill my truck about a 1min away from a gas station before. Only got it to 18.7 I am usually at 15.5 with light on.

 

[NoVAphotog]

Suprised no one has brought up how hard it is on your fuel pump to be run so low on gas.

I was wondering if this topic would come up for this car...I know plenty of folks in the E46 world who carry spare fuel pumps around in their trunks past 100k as it's only a matter of time. Fuel pumps use the flow of the gas as coolant, so if you are literally running on fumes that isn't enough to cool the pump and shortens it's lifespan.

 

[jeremyc74]

Fuel pumps use the flow of the gas as coolant, so if you are literally running on fumes that isn't enough to cool the pump and shortens it's lifespan.

No, they do not, and haven't for about 40 years since the manufacturers learned that doing so would cause them to fail.

This is misinformation that people spread with absolutely no source whatsoever, and it needs to stop. I've worked on the lines where these pumps are BUILT (Hella). You can run the motors dry forever with no liquid around them and they're fine. We did so on a regular basis on the test stands.

The only way you're going to damage the pump is by running it with the impeller completely dry for an extended period, but you can't do that because at that point the engine dies and pump shuts off.

It absolutely astounds me that people think automotive engineers are so stupid that we wouldn't consider the fact that the pump has to work all the way until the tank is empty. If you think we're that dumb, doesn't it scare you a little bit that there's an electrical device submerged in a tank of flammable liquid in the back of your truck? :boom:

 

[NoVAphotog]

No, they do not, and haven't for about 40 years since the manufacturers learned that doing so would cause them to fail.

This is misinformation that people spread with absolutely no source whatsoever, and it needs to stop. I've worked on the lines where these pumps are BUILT (Hella). You can run the motors dry forever with no liquid around them and they're fine. We did so on a regular basis on the test stands.

The only way you're going to damage the pump is by running it with the impeller completely dry for an extended period, but you can't do that because at that point the engine dies and pump shuts off.

It absolutely astounds me that people think automotive engineers are so stupid that we wouldn't consider the fact that the pump has to work all the way until the tank is empty. If you think we're that dumb, doesn't it scare you a little bit that there's an electrical device submerged in a tank of flammable liquid in the back of your truck? :boom:

I'll admit it sounds absolutely DUMB but you do see it come up a LOT and just random forum people either...

Running on empty: Low gas in the tank can be costly

"The gasoline acts like a coolant for the electric fuel-pump motor, so when you run very low, this allows the pump to suck in air, which creates heat and can cause the fuel pump to wear prematurely and potentially fail." - ConsumerReports.org

 

[IBallEngineer]

No, they do not, and haven't for about 40 years since the manufacturers learned that doing so would cause them to fail.

This is misinformation that people spread with absolutely no source whatsoever, and it needs to stop. I've worked on the lines where these pumps are BUILT (Hella). You can run the motors dry forever with no liquid around them and they're fine. We did so on a regular basis on the test stands.

The only way you're going to damage the pump is by running it with the impeller completely dry for an extended period, but you can't do that because at that point the engine dies and pump shuts off.

It absolutely astounds me that people think automotive engineers are so stupid that we wouldn't consider the fact that the pump has to work all the way until the tank is empty. If you think we're that dumb, doesn't it scare you a little bit that there's an electrical device submerged in a tank of flammable liquid in the back of your truck? :boom:

I'm going to partially disagree with you. But let's first agree that I may not know more about cars than you, and you may not know more than me. First of all, 40 year ago the "majority" of FI cars used external pumps. And there really weren't many anyway. The LUF VW, the MBZ and some Cadillacs. I know there was the tii bmw and assorted others, but not much. It wasn't till the mid 80's that FI became mainstream. I was fixing Mikuni carbs in a car dealer in 1983, alongside some early TB injected cars.

But in those days the OE trainers IMPLORED us to educate people NOT to let the tank run dry. Bad info? Maybe.

In my life I've seen a few pumps go bad, OK a whole lot of them. Some in cars where the tank was never low, mostly by people who often pushed their cars in to the station. I count myself among them! In the 90's I worked a sales job where I drove around 600 miles per week, unfortunately I only got about 500 per tankful. I often tried to stretch the last few miles to make it home or to a known station. I often didn't make it. Was that the cause of my premature pump failure? We don't know, it is much to random of a sample. But I do know that since that time I rarely if ever do that sort of thing, and I've had only one pump failure. And that subsequent failure was on a vehicle where I KNOW I abused the pump because the metal tank was next to the exhaust and would get hot when I pulled a particular hill towing a trailer. And I used to have to pour water over the tank after the overheating would cause the pump to stop working. I could literally hear the pump screaming just before I'd pull over.

I'm not astounded, vehicle engineers are just people. In the 7 years I sold to TMS in Torrance I met a lot of them, very few of them impressed me as anything more than average intelligence. And even today, cars are built with poorly designed components. Just check the warranty claims at the local dealers. Why do the rotors on our trucks suck? Why do the license plate housings fall off the Scions tC?

My point here is you have a perspective, as do I. Not everyone is going to agree with us, let's be friends and talk about each other behind our backs! LOL

So remember, don't leave your cell phone charging overnight, and don't take your wrecked car to a body shop because it will never be the same!

:doh:

 

[cashmoney]

If you think we're that dumb, doesn't it scare you a little bit that there's an electrical device submerged in a tank of flammable liquid in the back of your truck? :boom:

Not really because it's not the liquid that's volatile it's the fumes, and given the air/fuel ratio in the tank it'd be difficult to start a fire in the tank itself.