2008 4Runner Parking Brake Warning Light & ABS Light Flicker Simultaneously

[AuSeeker]

AuSeeker

Are you referring to the red or blue or neither?

The red, BUT the diagram I was looking at didn't show the blue device so that could very well be it.

Hydraulic System for 2008 Toyota 4Runner | Toyota Parts

I'll look around some more tommorow to see if I can find the blue device, or maybe you can find it, I looked in the brakes section but that device could be under electrical.

Genuine Toyota Parts for 2008 Toyota 4Runner|SR5 4.0L V6 - Gas | Toyota Parts

 

[sant6236]

Auseeker

I personally think it has to do with where the blue device feeds underneath the MC reservoir...according to Toyota Parts that is where a sensor exists and its actually integrated into the reservoir.

 

[sant6236]

If so I think it would be this part:

 

[sant6236]

Yes, you should be able to find some at most autoparts stores or any computer supplies stores, there are many brands but CRC is a good one, here's a link to some at Walmart, but I don't know for sure if they stock it at the stores or just sell it online, I know this brand is sold at most all autoparts stores.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/CRC-5103...MIlpzB7u-54AIVQhppCh2vUwTdEAYYAiABEgIV6PD_BwE

I picked up some CRC, can I just spray this stuff inside the clips and switches? What about sensors?

 

[AuSeeker]

Auseeker

I personally think it has to do with where the blue device feeds underneath the MC reservoir...according to Toyota Parts that is where a sensor exists and its actually integrated into the reservoir.

If so I think it would be this part:

I agree, that would be a sensor that detects that the brake fuild is depleted/empty, so I don't think pressing the brake pedal would do anything to trigger that sensor, so it still maybe something going on in the control module.

I picked up some CRC, can I just spray this stuff inside the clips and switches? What about sensors?

You can spray it into and on anything electrical...BUT you need to dissconnect anything you spray it on to avoid short curcuiting the device...e.g. no power that could cause a hot curcuit to connect to ground, the cleaner evoporates/dries quicky but it may take a bit longer for that to happen on the inside where direct air can't contact the cleaner readily so wait a while before reconnecting any device that the cleaner penetrates into, if you have a compressor blowing compressed air into any seams/holes, etc. will help to dry the cleaner that gets inside a device.

 

[sant6236]

Guess what?? Now the ABS light flickers too when I apply the brake pedal. See lower right in cluster.

 

[sant6236]

Well.....i brought it in. According to Toyota, I have to replace the entire Master Cylinder Assembly as it comes as one on this particular gen. Two different issues as there are two different lights going on.. $3,513. Not happy. They cleared the codes and the lights and is driving it home tonight to validate before i sink this kind of cash into it. FML

 

[AuSeeker]

Well.....i brought it in. According to Toyota, I have to replace the entire Master Cylinder Assembly as it comes as one on this particular gen. Two different issues as there are two different lights going on.. $3,513. Not happy. They cleared the codes and the lights and is driving it home tonight to validate before i sink this kind of cash into it. FML

I'm not 100% sure and I could be mistaken but I afraid it maybe intergrated in the control module which is located on the side of the master cylinder and unfortunately nothing on these master cylinders are cheap, a new control module runs around at least $1100 to $1200, I think you may need to take it in to a dealer who has the proper special service tools and let them run tests to see where the issue really is.

If you do need to replace an expensive component you might want to get a complete used or rebuilt unit off of Ebay that has at least some kind of warranty, it will still be expensive but you could most likely find a complete assembly for less than a new control module.

That cost is exactly why I made the post above about trying to find a complete used or rebuilt one on ebay, the cost from where I get my new OEM parts is about $2000 or a little less just for the master cylinder, you can get a rebuilt one on ebay for half that or less, it can be installed by most anyone with a little bit of mechanical knowledge but unless you're lucky it will have to go in to the dealer to get the brakes bled of air properly because of the ABS valves you need a special service tool to get those valves to stay open to get any air out of the ABS system.

It sounds like that dealer is quoting you full retail on the master cylinder..around $2800 and then the rest is labor for an fairly easy install and then bleeding the brakes.

If you look at the link for McGeorge Toyota I posted above and show them the price for the complete assembly item #1 and ask them to match that price on the master cylinder if they say no then go to another dealer and do the same, most dealers will price match if they know you can get the part cheaper then they sell it for, I think you can get them down on price by about $750+/- or maybe even more!!

Also another note these master cylinders can have various parts replaced without replacing the entire unit...BUT Toyota Corprate advises all the dealers to replace the entire unit because it is a complicated unit and not every Tech has the experience to do anything but replace the entire unit and not to mention they make a lot more money doing it the easy way!!

 

[sant6236]

AuSeeker

Thoughts? This is from the Master Mechanic at Toyota:

 

[Derek]

I'm curious. Were you having any issues leading up to the lights turning on that led you to believe your brakes weren't functioning properly? I would like to know what symptoms to look out for since I just hit 160K miles on my 2007.

 

[sant6236]

Derek

Zero symptoms prior to lights flickering. And there are truly NO symptoms other than both lights flickering intermittently when applying brake. The brakes feel sound. Just annoying flickering.

I have researched the heck out of this and my gut says to replace the reservoir with the integrated sensor vs. the ENTIRE master cylinder assembly that Toyota is recommending.

 

[sant6236]

I agree, that would be a sensor that detects that the brake fuild is depleted/empty, so I don't think pressing the brake pedal would do anything to trigger that sensor, so it still maybe something going on in the control module.



You can spray it into and on anything electrical...BUT you need to dissconnect anything you spray it on to avoid short curcuiting the device...e.g. no power that could cause a hot curcuit to connect to ground, the cleaner evoporates/dries quicky but it may take a bit longer for that to happen on the inside where direct air can't contact the cleaner readily so wait a while before reconnecting any device that the cleaner penetrates into, if you have a compressor blowing compressed air into any seams/holes, etc. will help to dry the cleaner that gets inside a device.

So does that mean I need to disconnect the battery terminals when spraying the Brake Fluid Level Warning Switch (harness side connector)?

 

[sant6236]

Here is the circuit description and inspection procedure associated with the DTC C1202/68 BRAKE FLUID LEVEL LOW

 

[AuSeeker]

AuSeeker

Thoughts? This is from the Master Mechanic at Toyota:

I saw your post this morning but had to leave for work, it seems from the Tech's test as he stated that the fluid level sensor is not working correctly, I see you've found the document on how to test it, I was going to post it and it also says that the sensor signal goes to the skid control ECU so it's also possible that there could be an issue with it, but as you have said above I would start with the reservoir/sensor assembly since you can't just get the sensor, because the Tech more or less says it's the sensor...BUT as I stated previously most all Toyota Techs are instructed that anytime there an issue related to the master cylinder assembly to replace the entire unit and as you see the Tech stated just that, I'm not sure why, it maybe the money or it could be it the easiest thing for them to do to ensure a proper and quick fix since the master cylinder assembly is very complicated and the issue could really lie in any of several different conponents.

That all being said I don't think you will be able to get the Toyota dealer to just replace the reservoir/sensor because of what I said above and the Tech stating that the entire assembly needs to be replaced, but if you're lucky they may or you may have to order the part and get a independant shop to replace it, but you need to make sure they know exactly how and has the proper "special service tool" needed to bleed the brakes/master cylinder afterwards.

So does that mean I need to disconnect the battery terminals when spraying the Brake Fluid Level Warning Switch (harness side connector)?

If either part/terminal of the connector has voltage I would just to be safe and not possibly short something out, it may not have voltage until you turn the ignition on, if you have a muti-meter you can test the connector to see if any voltage is present, make sure you have a good connection to ground and then touch the other +/red probe to the + side of the battery to ensure you are getting a voltage reading and them check the connector for voltage.

 

[sant6236]

Went to Oreillys Auto Part store and scanned car with OBDII to validate the code Toyota has seen and below is what showed up.

Also Toyota will NOT just replace the resevoir...they will only replace the entire MC assembly...not happening, especially for $3k+. I got them down $400 thanks to the website you sent me. They also said they cant go that deep in discount because they are a smaller dealer..wah wah wah.

I would ultimately buy the resevoir/sensor and probably replace myself. My understanding is the brakes dont need bled if I'm just replacing the resevoir. You are just taking the fluid out of the Reservoir not the cylinder...u agree?

 

[AuSeeker]

Went to Oreillys Auto Part store and scanned car with OBDII to validate the code Toyota has seen and below is what showed up.

Also Toyota will NOT just replace the resevoir...they will only replace the entire MC assembly...not happening, especially for $3k+. I got them down $400 thanks to the website you sent me. They also said they cant go that deep in discount because they are a smaller dealer..wah wah wah.

I would ultimately buy the resevoir/sensor and probably replace myself. My understanding is the brakes dont need bled if I'm just replacing the resevoir. You are just taking the fluid out of the Reservoir not the cylinder...u agree?

I agree to a point, the reservoir has 3 nipples on the bottom where it connects to the master cylinder, these nipples insert into rubber grommets on the top of the master cylinder, the nipples sould have a barbed end so when forced down into the grommets it will sorta "lock" it onto the master cylinder (I would suggest that you also purchase all 3 of the grommets just in case one may get damaged removing the old reservoir, the cost would only add about $12+/- to the cost, if you can get them locally at a dealer you should be able to return them if not needed), it's possbile that when you refill the fluid that some air may get trapped in one or more of the nipples, I would suggest that you use something like the handle of a screwdriver to repeatly tap on the reservoir to help release any air that may have gotten trapped in the nipples, if this works then you shouldn't have to bleed the brakes....BUT if you do the good news is you most likely will not have to use a special service tool to bleed the brakes since the master cylinder hasn't been removed the chances are very good that no air has gotten trapped in the ABS valves and as long as you don't do any panick stops that would trigger the ABS no air that maybe in the system should get into those valves, the tool trigger these valves to open to allow any air to be bled out.

 

[sant6236]

AuSeeker

Your knowledge and feedback are very much appreciated. Thanks for being there for me.

We had snow this morning and I noticed both of thee lights (Parking Brake Warning & ABS) ALSO flicker simultaneously when the wheels brake loose. So its NOT just when I apply the brake pedal. Its intermittent, but I want to emphasize its NOT just when I apply the brake pedal, also when wheels brake loose.

This has me really thinking now...you think its because the brake fluid level sensor is on same circuit as the skid control?

 

[AuSeeker]

AuSeeker

Your knowledge and feedback are very much appreciated. Thanks for being there for me.

We had snow this morning and I noticed both of thee lights (Parking Brake Warning & ABS) ALSO flicker simultaneously when the wheels brake loose. So its NOT just when I apply the brake pedal. Its intermittent, but I want to emphasize its NOT just when I apply the brake pedal, also when wheels brake loose.

This has me really thinking now...you think its because the brake fluid level sensor is on same circuit as the skid control?

This seems to be one of the reasons why Toyota replaces the entire master cylinder and or other complicated components, many of their Techs either don't have the knowledge/experience to do the tests that will tell them exactly which component is the cause or (as in this case the fluid level sensor could very well be fine and the issue is within the Skid Control ECU) I think it may have more has to do with that by the time the Tech does all the testing to determine exactly which component is bad and they have to charge you for that time it's more cost exfective to just replace the entire unit especially since most of their Techs aren't computer/ECU specialists they are "mechanics" and there's a big learning curve to know how to troubleshoot electrical issues not to mention very complicated electronics/computers, the fluid sensor I wouldn't say is on the same "curcuit" persay as the SC ECU, but instead it sends a signal to the SC ECU and the ECU activates the appropiate warning light, the fact that you are not only seeing the Parking Brake/Brake Warning light (which are one in the same warning light but the signal comes from different sources depending on if the fluid is low or the parking brake is engaged) but you're also getting the ABS light, since both lights are flickering at the same time I'm not 100% sure it's the fluid level switch that is at fault since I don't see how it would make the ABS light flicker, IMHO I would test the switch to try and determine if indeed it's not working correctly before replacing it, it's very possible that the issue is something within the ECU causing both lights to flicker.

 

[sant6236]

So frustrating...these things shouldn't be this complicated but they engineer them to be. I agree with nearly all you have said. I will test the switch. Remember though, the Toyota Master tech tested the resevoir sensor and when refilling the reservoir the brake warning light did NOT go back off, which indicated its malfunctioning which also aligns with the code its throwing and the description. The million dollar question is WHY DOES THE ABS LIGHT FLICKER TOO!?

Where is the skid control ECU located or what is the part#?

 

[sant6236]

How do you explain this?