I really do not know what all of the fuss is about... this is a really good deal, unless I am looking at this whole concept wrong. Boy I hope not cause if so I am getting screwed as well! :moon:
You really need to request a copy of the Vehicle Inquiry Report or Dealer Invoice Sheet to be sure that the numbers they are giving you are accurate.
02/27/10
$680.00 TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertisement)
$10.30 Gasoline
$618.00 Dealer Holdback
$309.00 Whsl. Financial Reserve
Are these valid charges they should be charging me for? Or can I tell them to rethink the offer and get rid of those extra charges?
Yes these are valid charges.
TDA must vary from region to region, I have seen the $680 figure on other posts as advertising cost, but my TDA (actually listed as TMF Toyota Marketing Fund) was $924 in the Gulf States Region.
These fees go back to the regional Toyota association (or Toyota National Advertising) to offset marketing and advertising costs. Basically, you are paying for the advertising cost share for your vehicle.
Can be listed as TDA, TMF or TAF. Again, I think it depends on region.
Dealer Holdback is 2% of base MSRP before options.
$30,915 (SR5 4x4) x .02 = $618.30 (618)
Holdbacks are one of the many reasons dealers can sell for invoice and still make money. They get this holdback money no matter what the car sells for and use it for overhead, utilities, etc. Then depending on how many they sell they may get even more money from Toyota for meeting sales quotas.
Wholesale Financial Reserve is 1% of base MSRP
$30,915 x .01 = $309.15 (309)
WFR is sometimes called the Lot Fee or Floor Plan
TDA, Holdbacks, and WFR (as well as gas, destination, and port installed options or POIs) make up the difference between Dealer Cost and Invoice.
Does the dealer get some of this back? Yes. Usually all or a portion of the Holdback and/or WFR. But if I understand correctly, it depends on them selling a certain number of cars, or how long the car sits on the lot. Typically dealers are not double charging you these fees like some people suspect, and, it is how you get "invoice price" or "500 over invoice."
TDA - Personally I would not pay it
GAS - Seriously?! Mine came with a full tank - no charge.
Again, TDA is a cost that is going to get paid, whether by you or the dealer absorbs it.
$10.00 is the gas put in it in JAPAN or port, the dealer is paying for it, and it is ultimately passed on to you unless it is negotiated out. Ask for a full tank of gas and you will more than make up for this charge... at the current price of gas you will win every time if they fill it up.
Looks like a good deal. About 3k off sticker. 347 is a little high for documentation service though....
My Doc fees were $247 at the dealership I am purchasing from.
WTF?:bash:
i would personally find another dealer.
You DONT PAY DEALER HOLDBACK. That is money the dealer gets from toyota.
10.30 for gas? how did they get that?????????????
680 for what? Your dealer advertised the truck on a billboard?
go find another dealer dude.
See above.
The ONLY fees I paid were:
Title & Registration - $123
Documentary Prep - $239
Destination Charge - $800 (but that is built into the sticker, not additional)
If I were you I would NOT pay the:
$680 - Toyota dealer advertisement
$618 - Dealer holdback
$309 - Whsl. Financial reserve
$10 - Gasoline
I would make them reduce these fees:
$596 - License fee
$347 - Documentation service
$20 - Registration,title,postage,tire tax,plate transfer
Seems like they gave you a break on the sticker but are making up for it on the fees they are charging you!!! If they do not drop those fees find another dealer!
See above. :sobbing:
The "invoice" price of $27205 is actually $927 less than what is listed on cars.com. The dealer holdback and financial reserve just so happens to be $927 as well. So, if your vehicle base price invoice was $28132, as listed on cars.com, then you did pay those fees. Our boy is really getting raped on taxes and licensing. Yikes.
Why is your premium package so high? Did you get 3rd row?
Correct on the $927. This figures are not included the dealer base price (on the Vehicle Inquiry Sheet). Yet they are later added in to the figures. I think this is why some people think they are getting double billed for them.
TI is Premium Package including Third Row Leather. TH is Third Row Cloth.
Somewhere AZDPS said he thinks the dealer gave him the wrong figure for TI. I think he is correct should be $2856 not $3129 unless there is a regional difference on this option.
Have you shopped around and received out-the-door prices at other dealers? Personally, I compare the OTD prices to what I would expect to pay based on Edmunds or KBB's invoice pricing + destination + tax and MSRP + destination + tax. How the dealer gets to their rate, I really don't care.
I suspect your dealer is doing what they are doing to make it harder for you to make an apples-to-apples comparison with Edmunds or KBB. That should tell you something about their culture.
Out the door is a good way to look at it IF everyone understands that Out the Door is Negotiated Price before tax, title, fees, rebates, etc. The problem is that every single person says OTD on any number of calculations.
Lets look at it this way
$27205.00 - SR5 4x4 (does not include wfr or holdback)
OPTIONS
-------------------------------------------------------
$2856 - (TI) premium package (I adjusted this figure)
$840 - (CP) convenience package
$445 - (DJ) AM/FM/CD w/8 Speakers
$420 - (EC) Auto-Dimming Mirror w/Back-Up Display
$176 - (PN) Anti-Theft Alarm
$31,942 Total so far
ADDITIONAL CHARGES
-------------------------------------------------------
$800 - Destination charge
$680 - Toyota dealer advertisement
$618 - Dealer holdback
$309 - Whsl. Financial reserve
$10 - Gasoline
$2417 Total of Additional Charges
-------------------------------------------------------
$34,359 (this should match the Dealer Total on Invoice Sheet)
Now if you were to Negotiate a price of say $500 over invoice, the negotiated price would be:
$34,859 (34359 + 500) $2806 less than "Sticker"
But wait...
$500 + 309 wfr + 618 holdback (if they get 100% of these back) gives the dealer a profit of $1,427
or about 4.5% (1427/31942=0.04467)
Now this is were some additional fees hurt you.
TAX / LICENSE
-------------------------------------------------------
$2,789 - Tax
(based on your original amounts i calculated your state sales tax as roughly 8%.)
$596 - License fee
Not sure, but these are probably non negotiable, usually state fees and or city taxes?
$347 - Documentation service
these could be reduced or eliminated, depends on the dealer
$20 - Registration,title,postage,tire tax,plate transfer
Again legit state fees vary state to state
GRAND TOTAL "OUT THE DOOR"
see, even i said it differently
-------------------------------------------------------
$38,611
Total $946 over Sticker
Final Thoughts
If AZ sales tax on new cars is 8% like i calculated based on your original figures, there is nothing you can do about that, but that is where you are getting hit hard (you're looking at an extra 1000 over what I'm paying for MS sales tax of 5%)
If you can work your Doc fees down (or out) that will help you a little.
Excluding the higher taxes/fees this is basically the exact deal I got on a very similar truck.
Also if you were to pay the Destination of 800 but refuse to pay the TDA 680, Holdback 618, and WFR of 309, I calculate the dealer profit to be about -$200.00. I don't see that happening at any dealership in the country.
The best you are going to negotiate is about 100 over invoice unless you are on some sort of employee purchase plan.
Many thanks to JA here on T4R.org and his site
Top4Runners
for the use of his spreadsheet to help me better understand the buying process.
