2010+ TRD Supercharger

where is the temp sensor reading from using the "General CANSF" code? which is:
TXD 07E021D9
RXF 032180000000
RXD 2810
MTH 00070064FE70
Hijack alert. :police:

I'm not fluent in Scangauge'ese, but
07E2 is the ECU that scangauge is talking to
21D9 is the Paramiter ID (PID) the SG is requesting

Think of 07E2 as a street address, and 21D9 (PID) as a room number. With both of these items, you have enough information for the Scangauge to send a request to the right memory location (room number). This document gives you a more a much deeper understanding of what the XGauge numbers mean.

21D9 is for pre 2010 4Runners. 2010+ 4Runners have 2182 as the trans temp PID. Your 2010 TE will use the 2182 data.

It's hard to visualize the XGauge format. The pan temp equation for 2010+ 4Runners is:
((((A*256)+B)/256)-40)

Where A and B are the two numbers that the ECU gives you (or more accurately Scangauge or your Torque app) so you can plug it into the equation.

The ECU actually gives you the numbers in hex, and you have to convert it to decimal before plugging it into equation. Also, the ECU sends back the data in a steam of byes. Something like 686B780A5101. (6 bytes in this case) Where:
A=68 - byte 1
B=6B - byte 2
C=78 - byte 3
D=0A - byte 4
E=51 - byte 5
F=01 - byte 6

68 in hex is 104 in decimal. So:
A=104
B=107
C=120
D=10
etc

If you plug A and B into the equation for pan temp:
((((A*256)+B)/256)-40)
((((104*256)+107)/256)-40)=67.4 deg C

The converter temp equation is:
((((C*256)+D)/256)-40)
((((120*256)+10)/256)-40)=50.0 deg C

Confused yet? :twitch:
 
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Hijack alert. :police:

I'm not fluent in Scangauge'ese, but
07E2 is the ECU that scangauge is talking to
21D9 is the Paramiter ID (PID) the SG is requesting

Think of 07E2 as a street address, and 21D9 (PID) as a room number. With both of these items, you have enough information for the Scangauge to send a request to the right memory location (room number). This document gives you a more a much deeper understanding of what the XGauge numbers mean.

21D9 is for pre 2010 4Runners. 2010+ 4Runners have 2182 as the trans temp PID. Your 2010 TE will use the 2182 data.

It's hard to visualize the XGauge format. The pan temp equation for 2010+ 4Runners is:
((((A*256)+B)/256)-40)

Where A and B are the two numbers that the ECU gives you (or more accurately Scangauge or your Torque app) so you can plug it into the equation.

The ECU actually gives you the numbers in hex, and you have to convert it to decimal before plugging it into equation. Also, the ECU sends back the data in a steam of byes. Something like 686B780A5101. (6 bytes in this case) Where:
A=68 - byte 1
B=6B - byte 2
C=78 - byte 3
D=0A - byte 4
E=51 - byte 5
F=01 - byte 6

68 in hex is 104 in decimal. So:
A=104
B=107
C=120
D=10
etc

If you plug A and B into the equation for pan temp:
((((A*256)+B)/256)-40)
((((104*256)+107)/256)-40)=67.4 deg C

The converter temp equation is:
((((C*256)+D)/256)-40)
((((120*256)+10)/256)-40)=50.0 deg C

Confused yet? :twitch:
equally confused and impressed.

i don't want to mislead folks thinking new posts in this thread are actually new news about the mythical TRD SC. i feel for the "lucky guy" who won one at the FJ Summit (2 years ago?)...

maybe we should move this to a new thread...
 
I cant really speak to the effects on gas mileage of re gearing this particular platform, but it wont be anywhere near the hit supercharging an engine will be.

Re gearing you will be running a higher RPM at a given speed assuming the same size tire. More RPMs=slightly more fuel consumption.

Supercharging the engine you are adding a substantial amount of parasitic drag, especially with a roots type blower such as the TRDs. Couple this with increased fuel demand of a forced induction engine, and your mileage is going to take a substantial hit. In most cases adding any type of forced induction will require larger fuel injectors and a larger fuel pump. This is due to needing to run a richer air fuel ratio than a naturally aspirated application in order to combat pre detonation. I'm not really sure what the TRD setup comes with for fuel mods but it is likely an inline booster pump, or a larger pump and possibly larger injectors. Also, there's the issue of wear and tear on your engine internals. Towing a trailer you are putting substantial strain on the engine already. Adding a supercharger is going to increase that exponentially. It is not a very good option for towing in my opinion. If I were regularly towing anything more than my 5x8 utility trailer packed full of motos, I would be looking at a different tow vehicle honestly.

Uh, stoich is still stoich. Supercharging doesn't change that value when the fuel is the same. (the difference in stoich from 87 to 91 or 93 octane is negligible) You are right when you say that injectors and fuel pumps need analysis because you need to ensure you keep adequate fuel pressure (and therefore fuel delivery) to keep from leaning out under boost. The ECU will command a given pulse width and if the fuel delivery system can't keep up, it will lean out. That's when you get knock and spark retardation when the ECU commands it. Having said that, there is an old school tendency to run rich of peak in forced induction systems because extra fuel provides a cooling effect and slows down flame front propagation during ignition. Lots of work has been done to show this at places like SWRI (was there when I lived in South Texas a few years ago...) where they have extensive research on the effect this has on cylinder pressure, changes to peak power/torque, and of course emissions. With proper instrumentation and individual cylinder control for timing and fuel delivery, you can trim things down to run as close to peak cylinder pressure as you like. Cylinder pressure is a great tool to ensure you have the right cam, are running the right timing, have the right fuel (as in composition), etc.

Also, supercharging does not increase wear and tear "exponentially". That's hogwash. What is true is people get used to having that power, and if the system itself isn't up to the task, you can wear things out quicker in that manner. Adding the supercharger itself doesn't mean you just halved the life of your powertrain. Also, nothing is as parasitic as the transmission/rear end in a given setup. Supercharging is parasitic from the crank though, but it's not a 50% hit or anything like that. It's why I prefer turbocharging to supercharging: you're making exhaust gas anyway, let's put that to use on a turbo. :) You then watch backpressure to get to peak power (along with that whole cylinder pressure thing) at a given RPM/boost level.

Either way, I can't envision TRD running an aggressive timing curve with their setup, so they will be looking at keeping cylinder pressure down by keeping timing under control. If they went with an aggressive setup, you'd need injectors, fuel pump, possibly fuel lines, and pistons. You'd also have to make sure you weren't about to smack the piss out of the transmission with all that torque (on an aggressive setup) so you'd have to beef that up some. That's what happens when you want to make power on stock motors. You say "I'll just be happy with (insert power figure or E/T here)". Then you change one thing, then another, something breaks, you beef up the broken thing, buy this, modify that, etc etc. Next thing you know, you're in a completely modified rig that makes all kinds of power and you end up on your back wrenching on it all the time. :)

Been there, done that...
 
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Uh, stoich is still stoich. Supercharging doesn't change that value when the fuel is the same. (the difference in stoich from 87 to 91 or 93 octane is negligible) You are right when you say that injectors and fuel pumps need analysis because you need to ensure you keep adequate fuel pressure (and therefore fuel delivery) to keep from leaning out under boost. The ECU will command a given pulse width and if the fuel delivery system can't keep up, it will lean out. That's when you get knock and spark retardation when the ECU commands it. Having said that, there is an old school tendency to run rich of peak in forced induction systems because extra fuel provides a cooling effect and slows down flame front propagation during ignition. Lots of work has been done to show this at places like SWRI (was there when I lived in South Texas a few years ago...) where they have extensive research on the effect this has on cylinder pressure, changes to peak power/torque, and of course emissions. With proper instrumentation and individual cylinder control for timing and fuel delivery, you can trim things down to run as close to peak cylinder pressure as you like. Cylinder pressure is a great tool to ensure you have the right cam, are running the right timing, have the right fuel (as in composition), etc.

Also, supercharging does not increase wear and tear "exponentially". That's hogwash. What is true is people get used to having that power, and if the system itself isn't up to the task, you can wear things out quicker in that manner. Adding the supercharger itself doesn't mean you just halved the life of your powertrain. Also, nothing is as parasitic as the transmission/rear end in a given setup. Supercharging is parasitic from the crank though, but it's not a 50% hit or anything like that. It's why I prefer turbocharging to supercharging: you're making exhaust gas anyway, let's put that to use on a turbo. :) You then watch backpressure to get to peak power (along with that whole cylinder pressure thing) at a given RPM/boost level.

Either way, I can't envision TRD running an aggressive timing curve with their setup, so they will be looking at keeping cylinder pressure down by keeping timing under control. If they went with an aggressive setup, you'd need injectors, fuel pump, possibly fuel lines, and pistons. You'd also have to make sure you weren't about to smack the piss out of the transmission with all that torque (on an aggressive setup) so you'd have to beef that up some. That's what happens when you want to make power on stock motors. You say "I'll just be happy with (insert power figure or E/T here)". Then you change one thing, then another, something breaks, you beef up the broken thing, buy this, modify that, etc etc. Next thing you know, you're in a completely modified rig that makes all kinds of power and you end up on your back wrenching on it all the time. :)

Been there, done that...

Hmm, you don't have more than 2,000 posts and you haven't been here for 3 years, so I'm not sure you're qualified to speak so technically.:behindsofa:
 
I'll second what this guy said about mileage, my cobra got the same mileage with a roots style as it did before the SC, and it actually went up with a centri SC. Except when I got in it. Then you could literally watch the gas gauge drop.

Wear and tear with a low-moderate boost, properly tuned car shouldn't be bad. It will be less than stock, but whose to say what stock a particular motor will do. That bring said, everyone wants to turn up the boost and get more power, and that's why things break. I know from experience sadly.
 
Uh, stoich is still stoich. Supercharging doesn't change that value when the fuel is the same. (the difference in stoich from 87 to 91 or 93 octane is negligible) You are right when you say that injectors and fuel pumps need analysis because you need to ensure you keep adequate fuel pressure (and therefore fuel delivery) to keep from leaning out under boost. The ECU will command a given pulse width and if the fuel delivery system can't keep up, it will lean out. That's when you get knock and spark retardation when the ECU commands it. Having said that, there is an old school tendency to run rich of peak in forced induction systems because extra fuel provides a cooling effect and slows down flame front propagation during ignition. Lots of work has been done to show this at places like SWRI (was there when I lived in South Texas a few years ago...) where they have extensive research on the effect this has on cylinder pressure, changes to peak power/torque, and of course emissions. With proper instrumentation and individual cylinder control for timing and fuel delivery, you can trim things down to run as close to peak cylinder pressure as you like. Cylinder pressure is a great tool to ensure you have the right cam, are running the right timing, have the right fuel (as in composition), etc.

Also, supercharging does not increase wear and tear "exponentially". That's hogwash. What is true is people get used to having that power, and if the system itself isn't up to the task, you can wear things out quicker in that manner. Adding the supercharger itself doesn't mean you just halved the life of your powertrain. Also, nothing is as parasitic as the transmission/rear end in a given setup. Supercharging is parasitic from the crank though, but it's not a 50% hit or anything like that. It's why I prefer turbocharging to supercharging: you're making exhaust gas anyway, let's put that to use on a turbo. :) You then watch backpressure to get to peak power (along with that whole cylinder pressure thing) at a given RPM/boost level.

Either way, I can't envision TRD running an aggressive timing curve with their setup, so they will be looking at keeping cylinder pressure down by keeping timing under control. If they went with an aggressive setup, you'd need injectors, fuel pump, possibly fuel lines, and pistons. You'd also have to make sure you weren't about to smack the piss out of the transmission with all that torque (on an aggressive setup) so you'd have to beef that up some. That's what happens when you want to make power on stock motors. You say "I'll just be happy with (insert power figure or E/T here)". Then you change one thing, then another, something breaks, you beef up the broken thing, buy this, modify that, etc etc. Next thing you know, you're in a completely modified rig that makes all kinds of power and you end up on your back wrenching on it all the time. :)

Been there, done that...

I like chocolate cake.
 
Any new word guys?

Man, the boards got quiet on the trd supercharger. I thought for sure we were going to see something this first quarter but no dice. I resurrect this thread only because I was playing that stupid toyotasuperoffoad.com game and noticed the first upgrade is a trd supercharger. I just have to think that right there is saying something, right? I bet they're waiting to release the s/c alongside the trd pro line up. Keep the dream alive!!!
 
Have to add that a roots style/twin screw supercharger is not a great choice for towing... The heat soak becomes a problem for the small air->water inter cooler and there is no way around it with the packaging constraints.

In general, putting FI on a NA motor with light hypereutectic pistons is feasable, but it will shorten the life of the motor. Dramatically if under constant heavy load. It does OK with short bursts of high load. Detonation eventually kills a piston. Seen it happen many times.

With enough fuel delivery and a well matched tune, the TRD kit might work great for most 4runner owners, but not for ones trying to tow uphill.
 
The videos are old, but a 30% increase over the FJ 260hp in the updated 1GR-FE is a solid 75hp bump. That'd put the 5th gen around 340hp. I doubt there would be any complaints about acceleration with those numbers. The supercharger whine would be a nice soundtrack. Love winding out our MINI's SC.
 
I was at local Toyo dealership yesterday, and the sales people were assuring me I could get a supercharger on my 4Runner Limited if I so wanted....but a little research online suggests otherwise. Is this still in limbo? Anyone have any hard evidence that a SC is imminent? It's a deal maker for me to get a 4Runner if I can supe it up!
 
I was at local Toyo dealership yesterday, and the sales people were assuring me I could get a supercharger on my 4Runner Limited if I so wanted....but a little research online suggests otherwise. Is this still in limbo? Anyone have any hard evidence that a SC is imminent? It's a deal maker for me to get a 4Runner if I can supe it up!

It has been imminent for a few years...who knows how many more imminent years we have to go.
 
It has been imminent for a few years...who knows how many more imminent years we have to go.

5th Gen Supercharger: "Imminent since 2009." "Has highest reliability record with ZERO problems since 2009." "Producing 600 hp since 2009." "5th Gen Supercharger: Easiest install and no maintenance since 2009." "5th Gen Supercharger: No drop in efficiency since 2009."
 
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