Thai
Elite Member
And it has been discussed here too: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/81578-toyota-4runner-suit-lexus-460-a.html
2011 LandCruiser $70k???
- Thread starter Presta24
- Start date
When I first glanced at the article, I thought it was a strange group of vehicles for a comparison test. I can see the LR4 and the GX being tested together, but the other three vehicles seemed to be less towards the "truck" side and more toward the "crossover" side. Then I realized that people tend to cross shop them all anyway, as they are all luxury nameplates in a similar price range. Interestingly, the two "trucks" in the group came in behind all three "crossovers".
Thai
Elite Member
x2. Infinity FX competes more with BMW X5.
eskim0chaos
Banned
Toyota needed to differentiate the LC from the LX. If Toyota had real wood it would be one other reason to purchase essentially the identical car from Toyota instead of Lexus. I'm not saying the interior of the LC is up to that of the LX; however, is it really worth almost $20k more?
Its interesting to note that the LC and LX both had AHC for the 06/07 model year; however, the 08+ LC didnt even have that option.
PS Look under a 4R and an LC - there is no comparison.
Its interesting to note that the LC and LX both had AHC for the 06/07 model year; however, the 08+ LC didnt even have that option.
PS Look under a 4R and an LC - there is no comparison.
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Thai
Elite Member
Yeah, but horrendously bad fake wood in a $70,000+ car is still dumb. Is an ES350 really $20k more than a Camry? In some ways it is...i did not really appreciate the difference until my parents got an ES...it is very nice! Lexus LX gives you longer warranty, more sound deadening, a monstrous REFERENCE sound system that rivals a decent home system, more leather, more REAL wood, air suspension, etc.. Actually, i think that the MSRP of an LX loaded is around $84k, while the TLC is $72k (all this from memory)...so, the price difference is small. In the grand scheme of things, a $12k difference is not much when you're already spending that much money! I think that the previous generation TLC and LX470 had a bigger gap in price.
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eskim0chaos
Banned
Reference = Mark Levinson?
I agree - it is quite spectacular and trumps many other manufacturer's "premium" sound option.
Previous LC was ~$65k and LX was about 10k more. Pretty similar.
Thai
Elite Member
Not sure if you know this, but not all Mark Levinson car systems are equal. The REFERENCE system is ONLY in the LS460 and LX570...and is called such. The rest of the Lexus vehicles have the normal Mark Levinson system, which is inferior to the REFERENCE system on the LS and LX. If you breakdown the REFERENCE system, then you will see why it is superior to the other ML systems. All 7 channels of the REFERENCE system has the same woofer and tweeter combo (one 4" woofer and one 1" tweeter x 7). This creates matched timbre and sound characteristics for all seating positions. There is no dip in frequency because all speakers locations have "equivalent" sound coming from them. This is NOT the case on non-REFERENCE ML systems.
T4Fun
Banned
there is a "used" gx premi on ebay with a reserve price higher than invoice. Its a gx 460 premium white with sepia interior and loaded with 6K miles...just like mine
Lexus : GX - eBay (item 290529543319 end time Feb-10-11 17:39:24 PST)
the "used" lxs are going for 60-70-80K!
Lexus : LX - eBay (item 320651059252 end time Mar-02-11 20:16:11 PST)
Lexus : LX - eBay (item 320652184705 end time Feb-10-11 11:00:29 PST)
Lexus : LX - eBay (item 390287556799 end time Feb-18-11 08:33:14 PST)
your bro had a much older model so yeah it drops in value like a rock....
fyi, i dont care about the value of my gx to others. Its my suv and i dont plan on selling it for a long long time. Let gas go to $10 a gallon, i will still drive it. It was money lost as soon as i drove it off the lot and it will be well used.
fyi, i have a corolla too...they hold their value because they didnt start off with a high value in first place...
ALL cars today will be worthless with the changing technology and less reliance on gas.
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Thai
Elite Member
T4Fun,
If you notice in your links, then you will notice that the "Bidding" LXs go very low. MSRP on those run around $84k...now, they are bidding for around $64k...and do you see any bidders? On the one for $72k, notice that he has "make an offer," which means that he can set whatever price he wants...but he lets you give an offer. So, yeah, my point is still correct...these luxury SUVs fall in value quite a bit!
Lets see where the GX will end up. Remember, this is what Lexus dealer offers for purchase. Do you think that the person who traded in the GX got $52k or higher? Sterling McCall Lexus probably got it for $50k or less and is now selling it for $55k or higher (reserve price).
I was not implying that you sell your GX...but, just for fun, go to your local dealer or Carmax and ask them to appraise your vehicle. You will be shock...your vehicle is not worth nearly as much as you expect. Remember, depreciation on ANY car is most after the first year...then it slows down.
As for the Corolla, remember, you are looking at PERCENTAGE of depreciation, not the actual value of depreciation. A Corolla will have less percentage of depreciation than your GX...just like a Rolex Stainless steel will drop less in value than a gold Rolex.
If you notice in your links, then you will notice that the "Bidding" LXs go very low. MSRP on those run around $84k...now, they are bidding for around $64k...and do you see any bidders? On the one for $72k, notice that he has "make an offer," which means that he can set whatever price he wants...but he lets you give an offer. So, yeah, my point is still correct...these luxury SUVs fall in value quite a bit!
Lets see where the GX will end up. Remember, this is what Lexus dealer offers for purchase. Do you think that the person who traded in the GX got $52k or higher? Sterling McCall Lexus probably got it for $50k or less and is now selling it for $55k or higher (reserve price).
I was not implying that you sell your GX...but, just for fun, go to your local dealer or Carmax and ask them to appraise your vehicle. You will be shock...your vehicle is not worth nearly as much as you expect. Remember, depreciation on ANY car is most after the first year...then it slows down.
As for the Corolla, remember, you are looking at PERCENTAGE of depreciation, not the actual value of depreciation. A Corolla will have less percentage of depreciation than your GX...just like a Rolex Stainless steel will drop less in value than a gold Rolex.
FourEyedWilly
New member
d
I'm just gonna say this. It's CAR and Driver, NOT TRUCK and Driver. Yeah, I'll take a Crap Rover over a Lexus or Toyota. (not so much) Even BMW drivers tell you to sell the damn thing before the warranty expires. THAT'S a vote of confidence. It would have been just as "enlightening" if they threw in an RX with that line up. Car and Driver should stick to just that, cars.
While I rant. Over the last few days I've seen FOUR Audis running around ranging from the SUV to the sedans all with the stupid LEDs burnt out on one side or another. NOT a fan of LEDs for headlights, looks like a cheap ass ebay find.
On the Landcruiser, it would probably be the last car you would EVER have to buy but I agree, Toyota needs to step up their interiors. BUT, if you are complaining about the Landcruiser, the 4Runner's are even cheaper looking. Reminds me of my daughters Duplo set.
I agree that the Lexus is a much better vehicle than the Land Rover, BMW, or Audi when you're talking about reliability. There's no question at all that the Lexus and Acura are in their own league there. But car mags don't take that into consideration during a comparison test, so their test result are understandable. They test the way the vehicles perform, not if they'll be reliable or not.
One other point on the Audi LED comment---- I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but those LED strips are designed to turn off on one side when the driver uses the turn signals. So if you see a new Audi making a right hand turn and the right side LEDs are off, it's not a malfunction, it was designed to do that. In Germany (and probably most of the world), the LEDs stay on all the time, but I guess we can thank the DOT laws for forcing Audi to make the LEDs go dim so other drivers can see the front turning signal better.
Thai
Elite Member
LED headlights is in fashion right now. FYI, there are 2 reasons LEDs are good:
1. They use minimal energy. So, technically, they save on gas over Xenons or halogens by 10-15%, according to my Toyota brochure.
2. LEDs last forever. Basically, if you never get into an accident with them, they will last the life of the vehicle. So, if you see it "burnt" out, then there are other reasons such as what DocMT wrote or that Audi is just crappy with their electronics. But, LEDs do NOT burn out.
The bad news with LEDs are that they are expensive to replace if you crash and they need proper encasement. LEDs headlights always come with headlight washers because they do not build enough heat up front to melt the snow off the headlight lens.
So, although for fashion in most cases, LEDs do have a reason to be there. This is why hybrids love LEDs because they do help save gas over the long haul...and they do save costs over regular halogens or Xenons due to their longevity.
The difference b/w a Land Cruiser and a 4runner is that a TLC costs $70,000+ while a 4runner can be had for under $35k. This is why i am complaining about the TLC and not the 4runner.
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Thai,
I think the LEDs he's talking about are not actually the headlights themselves, but just the LED strips that Audi (and others) are using for daytime running lights.
There are very few cars on the roads today with LED headlights. I'm sure they'll become more and more common, but it will be quite a few years before we'll see them on most new cars.
For now, it seems that everybody is copying Audi with a row of LEDs used at daytime running lamps though.
I think the LEDs he's talking about are not actually the headlights themselves, but just the LED strips that Audi (and others) are using for daytime running lights.
There are very few cars on the roads today with LED headlights. I'm sure they'll become more and more common, but it will be quite a few years before we'll see them on most new cars.
For now, it seems that everybody is copying Audi with a row of LEDs used at daytime running lamps though.
T4Fun
Banned
actually the LEDS in the audis are made by hella and sylvania and they DO build up heat. they are heat sinked however like the cpu in a computer so it appears they dont get hot.
LEDS are getting quite powerfull with SSC 4 LED P7 and CREE MCE type leds. They are actually MUCH more brighter than HIDS, each putting out between 700-900 lumens, and multiple that by number of leds you can put on, and you can see how bright it will get. The limiting factor is providing good heat sinks on them and getting a decent driver
Ive seen many audi q5's broken down being towed, and many audi leds burnt out (turn signals not on). all the german makes are unreliable imho
LEDS are getting quite powerfull with SSC 4 LED P7 and CREE MCE type leds. They are actually MUCH more brighter than HIDS, each putting out between 700-900 lumens, and multiple that by number of leds you can put on, and you can see how bright it will get. The limiting factor is providing good heat sinks on them and getting a decent driver
Ive seen many audi q5's broken down being towed, and many audi leds burnt out (turn signals not on). all the german makes are unreliable imho
Thai
Elite Member
LEDs make heat at the back of the lights...thus, i wrote that it needs proper encasement. LEDs do NOT generate enough heat FORWARD. This is why all of them (at least, in headlight application) needs headlight powerwashers...to blow away the snow and ice because these LEDs do not generate enough heat to melt them.
For my Prius, even after an hour of useage, the headlight is cool as if it had not been used.
Thai
Elite Member
Actually, Porsche makes some very reliable and durable cars...easily on par with Lexus.
FourEyedWilly
New member
Didn't actually know that about the turning feature. All of them were coming straight at me so don't *think* the turn signals were on, but I'll look again. I'm 100% okay with being wrong! Ha Ha!
For the first time last night I saw a Doge Magnum with those Halo headlights and they 'looked' like they were led powered as they had that look to them. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about by that look. It looked DAMN good is my point and I just don't feel like the row of leds looks all that great. Reminds me of Christmas though, so maybe that's a good thing! My house had something like 2000 LEDS. TAKE THAT AUDI!
I've owned Toyota's all my life and will continue to do so be it Toyota badges or Lexus badges but I've never owned a Toyota where I thought the interior was above average. I do know that every Toyota I had being equiped with a horrible sound system. I think finally these days including JBL they have addressed that.
Yeah, I think the row of LEDs on the front end is just played out already. Maybe if everyone wasn't doing it I wouldn't think so, but I see it so much now that I'm already sick of it.
Uneek
Super Moderator
The Audi LED whiskers from what I've seen turn off on the side that turn signals are activated on.
The LED whiskers are played out, just as halo rings (aka angel eyes) on the headlights from a few years ago and Altezza lights from a decade ago. When one manufacturer comes up with one unique and original design, everyone else jumps on that bandwagon and the aftermarket companies come up with their own crappy version of it for existing cars.
Look at the Camaro with it's parenthesis styled halo. Weak.
The LED whiskers are played out, just as halo rings (aka angel eyes) on the headlights from a few years ago and Altezza lights from a decade ago. When one manufacturer comes up with one unique and original design, everyone else jumps on that bandwagon and the aftermarket companies come up with their own crappy version of it for existing cars.
Look at the Camaro with it's parenthesis styled halo. Weak.
