2016 Cold Downshift Clunk! 550 on odo

[BlackRustBucket]

I'm a little bummed out and looking for someone to tell me everything will be ok...I JUST bought a 2016 Trail and the past 2 nights, after leaving work at 10pm and it being cold here in MD (28 not super cold), for the first time I went straight to S mode to + - shift through the parking lot. I'm going about 10mph at 1200rpm in 2nd and I'm approaching a speed bump so I downshift to 1st to use the engine to slow me down and I'm startled and thrown forward slightly by a large clunk. I went up to 3rd and down to 2nd going slow to see if that gear did it and it was smooth, I went from 2nd to 1st again and another massive clunk. I drove down the road about 2 minutes and tried to replicate it but it was gone.

Tonight was 36 deg and I tried it in the same spot of the parking lot as last night and it did it again. (repeatably if I wanted). This time I only drove about 1 minute but up a steep hill to leave work and pulled over to see if it would repeat and it did not...at this point the engine temp was about 1/4 upscale.

Does anyone know what could be going on? Any idea what the dealer is going to say when I take it back and tell them what's going on? (This is my first "new" car) Very disappointed considering it was about 40k out the door and right now has about 550 miles on the odo. Only good news is I bought a 10 yr warranty that covers EVERYTHING but tires, but apparently if you don't utilize it you will be reimbursed (which is obviously what I was shooting for having good faith in these trucks). Is there any type of break-in for the trans? As of now I'm thinking maybe the solenoids aren't acting fast enough when the fluid is thick and cold but I'm not real familiar with how the auto trans smoothly transitions through gears. Thanks for reading and if anyone has any suggestions of what to tell the dealer or know anything please respond.

 

[Saker]

How long had the engine been running prior to you experiencing this?

Is it possible the transmission wasn't warm enough?
Quite possible, plus compounded by you forcing it into 1st gear in the sequential mode.
Ok , maybe a TOYOTA tech can reply... Let me know if I am close to being correct here.

 

[probos]

I've only used S mode when I've had it in 4 wheel Hi. I have no idea what the dealer is going to say -- just take it in to them and explain the situation like you did here.

 

[salong53]

I don't know if this accounts for the clunk (which could come from anywhere in the drive line), but the basic 5spd auto in our trucks doesn't have a rev-matching feature when you downshift, which can cause some pretty violent downshifts if you force it to a lower gear. It gets more noticeable in lower gears. If you can drive a stick shift, the concept should be pretty familiar to you.

Seems like the simple fix would be to just not use S-mode when you're in a parking lot with a cold transmission. :noidea:

 

[radicalwillie]

I drive in the "S" mode quite frequently, but only from gears 2 - 5. Downshifting an automatic from 2nd to 1st while moving on pavement, is not something I like to do in any vehicle. It is very harsh and probably not that great for it. That being said, I have done it on dirt at 1 -2 mph, and have never noticed a clunk. But you are doing it at 10 mph on pavement, which is pretty fast to be shifting to first. I think the dealer is going to tell you that its normal and that you should not be doing that.

 

[BlackRustBucket]

How long had the engine been running prior to you experiencing this?

Is it possible the transmission wasn't warm enough?
Quite possible, plus compounded by you forcing it into 1st gear in the sequential mode.
Ok , maybe a TOYOTA tech can reply... Let me know if I am close to being correct here.

Was running 2 minutes at most, I'm sure both engine and trans were cold but I'm very gentle on vehicles especially when cold

 

[1engineer]

First: This is not a MANUAL TRANSMISSION. Do not treat it like one.

Second: The clunk probably came from your driveshaft whenever you downshifted cold.

Third: Do some troubleshooting yourself. Leave it in automatic mode. Does it do it them? Does it do it when it is 45 degrees outside? Does it do it when the vehicle is completely warm?

Last: This is not a race truck nor an 18 wheeler hauling 75K lbs down a steep hill. Gearing down to reduce speed is silly because the brakes are more than sufficient to bring the 4Runner to a gentle stop. Read your manual and report back.

 

[BlackRustBucket]

I hear what you're saying Willie and salong, and probably good points to not go into 1st unless stopped but I was going plenty slow enough to just add a little extra load on the engine, revving up to 2k at most, but regardless it doesn't do it when it's warm and it's definitely something not working properly. Not just a too early and hard down shift. Thanks guys

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm not quite following why you are running in manual shift mode in a parking lot with a cold motor and transmission in the first place. Try "D" in that scenario. It's there for a reason.

 

[stamonkey]

Last: This is not a race truck nor an 18 wheeler hauling 75K lbs down a steep hill. Gearing down to reduce speed is silly because the brakes are more than sufficient to bring the 4Runner to a gentle stop. Read your manual and report back.

I think most people coming down from the mountains here downshift. I only use gears 5-2 though.

 

[BlackRustBucket]

I'm not quite following why you are running in manual shift mode in a parking lot with a cold motor and transmission in the first place. Try "D" in that scenario. It's there for a reason.

To have more control over the vehicle picking what gear I'm in, especially approaching a steep hill to leave I like to pick manually to prevent hunting. I didn't know I was apparently using it at expense to the vehicle. I thought that's why the option is there

 

[audiciter]

1st gear in the auto transmission is a very short gear. Downshifting into 1st while going 10mph might throw the RPMs up drastically. Perhaps the clunk is some sort of protection from doing what you did?

 

[sooperedd]

Clearly the tranny or something in the drive line didn't like what you did.

I think the only reason to shift it into 1st manually would be if your stuck, can't think of another reason why you would need to to do that.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I think most people coming down from the mountains here downshift. I only use gears 5-2 though.

I've gotta be honest here, I've done Floyd Hill both ways and never once had to down shift manually. Foot off the gas and the engine braking while in D did just fine, but maybe my beautiful attitude black paint has more wind drag.

Now I did go over Trail Ridge Road in a POS Nissan rental car last year that had the CVT and that thing was horrible. I thought for sure the brakes would overheat because that lousy transmission has "D" and "1". When in "1" going downhill the motor was revving right under redline and sounded like it was going to blow up. I would never in a million years own one of those piles of junk and it further reinstated my dislike of Nissan products in general.

I will say this, whoever buys a Nissan CVT equipped rental car in Colorado had better get an extended warranty. In the Colorado mountains those cars all are going to take a beating and the CVT's have already become an Achilles heel for Nissan. Pure and utter junk. In fact Nissan has doubled the original warranty on them due to the bad press and number of recalls and replacements.

One complaint on a board I read had a 2014 Murano bought new, and at 33K miles it was on its third transmission. I have heard Dodge/Jeep is having similar issues with their 8 speed auto. The OP stated the reason the miles were so low was (only half jokingly) because it had been in the shop half the time they owned it.

So when people say the 4Runner is old school because it "only" has a 5 speed auto I laugh and respond "yeah, but it will easily run over 200K miles and has almost non-existent failure rate. It's a Toyota."

When was the last time somebody posted "My 5th gen tranny went out"? Ummm, never. Heck, you even have trouble finding that in the 2nd-4th gen forums. LOL

 

[stamonkey]

I've gotta be honest here, I've done Floyd Hill both ways and never once had to down shift manually. Foot off the gas and the engine braking while in D did just fine, but maybe my beautiful attitude black paint has more wind drag.

I don't think I've ever had to shift manually either, but I like to err on the side of caution and not ride the brakes.

My 4Runner is also attitude black and we most definitely have more drag. :iagree:

 

[BlackRustBucket]

I've gotta be honest here, I've done Floyd Hill both ways and never once had to down shift manually. Foot off the gas and the engine braking while in D did just fine, but maybe my beautiful attitude black paint has more wind drag.

Now I did go over Trail Ridge Road in a POS Nissan rental car last year that had the CVT and that thing was horrible. I thought for sure the brakes would overheat because that lousy transmission has "D" and "1". When in "1" going downhill the motor was revving right under redline and sounded like it was going to blow up. I would never in a million years own one of those piles of junk and it further reinstated my dislike of Nissan products in general.

I will say this, whoever buys a Nissan CVT equipped rental car in Colorado had better get an extended warranty. In the Colorado mountains those cars all are going to take a beating and the CVT's have already become an Achilles heel for Nissan. Pure and utter junk. In fact Nissan has doubled the original warranty on them due to the bad press and number of recalls and replacements.

One complaint on a board I read had a 2014 Murano bought new, and at 33K miles it was on its third transmission. I have heard Dodge/Jeep is having similar issues with their 8 speed auto. The OP stated the reason the miles were so low was (only half jokingly) because it had been in the shop half the time they owned it.

So when people say the 4Runner is old school because it "only" has a 5 speed auto I laugh and respond "yeah, but it will easily run over 200K miles and has almost non-existent failure rate. It's a Toyota."

When was the last time somebody posted "My 5th gen tranny went out"? Ummm, never. Heck, you even have trouble finding that in the 2nd-4th gen forums. LOL

Sure they do, 3rd gen trans fails all the time....when they pink milkshake lol. Just kidding, but whether anyone agrees or disagrees whether someone should or needs to use d or s either way, it just wasn't normal for it to do that when I downshifted at almost a stop. so I thought I could get some insight on here as to why mechanically this could be happening and if it could be faulty parts rather than being asked why I'm using the slap shift in a parking lot lol.

 

[1engineer]

Sure they do, 3rd gen trans fails all the time....when they pink milkshake lol. Just kidding, but whether anyone agrees or disagrees whether someone should or needs to use d or s either way, it just wasn't normal for it to do that when I downshifted at almost a stop. so I thought I could get some insight on here as to why mechanically this could be happening and if it could be faulty parts rather than being asked why I'm using the slap shift in a parking lot lol.

I already told you it was the driveshaft and backlash in the spline not liking the sudden rotational velocity change you were giving it by shifting manually to decelerate, especially when cold and the grease is yet to warm up to proper viscosity.

People are ragging on you about your preferred driving style because it's incorrect and misapplied. Pay attention.

Good luck.

 

[BlackRustBucket]

I already told you it was the driveshaft and backlash in the spline not liking the sudden rotational velocity change you were giving it by shifting manually to decelerate, especially when cold and the grease is yet to warm up to proper viscosity.

People are ragging on you about your preferred driving style because it's incorrect and misapplied. Pay attention.

Good luck.

Haha ok got it, thanks.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Its pretty normal, your engine was cold, hence a higher rpm while it warms up. You shifted around 10mph from 2nd into 1st, combined with the higher rpm, it would have been similar to you downshifting with your foot still slightly on the throttle. The torque converter was being loaded with power from the engine (probably around 1200~1400rpm, its warm-up idle) and the speed from the rear diff was just under the load from the trans. You got a little kick in your arse from it. Now, if you were at 20mph, you would have slipped in without the kick, and you would have seen your rpms shoot up to match the speed of the vehicle.

I would not do this too often, as that shock to the gears, both in the diff and in the trans, is not something very nice to do. Did that one time break your trans or something else? I highly doubt it. If you continue doing that, will it break your shidt? Highly likely!

And as for downshifting to slow the vehicle down, yep, I did that on my towing trip all last weekend. Slight downhill inclines are great with 4th gear and no brakes, and if its still gaining speed, I'll even throw the a/c on for a bit to put a little more drag on the engine. Its not nearly as effective in the 4runner, but sure works wonders with my 4 cylinder xtra cab!

Personally, I think Toyota has (once again) programmed the trans ecu a bit too reserved. Shift points seem quite low in rpm, even with slightly moderate throttle input, and I've noticed an interesting power band around 3200rpm with no extra throttle input. Then again, that's what Toyota's been doing for years. They de-tune their programming to a level that keeps their drivetrains from experiencing many failures. Soft throttle responses, lower hp/torque numbers than what one should see for displacement, higher fuel dumps at high throttle inputs, its what keeps an engine "safe" from abuse!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Sure they do, 3rd gen trans fails all the time....when they pink milkshake lol. Just kidding...

Well, I get why you said just kidding because its actually a radiator failure that causes the transmission failure and yes, that does happen sometimes on the 3rd gens. If the 3rd gen has an Achilles heel, its the radiator.

To the 3rd gen's credit though, my pristine 2002 Sport - the factory Toyota battery lasted 12 years, the exhaust was original. Timing belt, water pump, idler pulleys, etc.. replaced by me at 89K miles. To be honest the damn thing was bulletproof. I just made the mistake of looking at the new 4Runners when I was picking up some parts and got that new car smell in my nostrils and well, the rest as they say was history.

I'm not ragging on somebody for using the selective gear selection globally, I just personally have never felt the need. But I would recommend you abstain from doing it while everything is cold in the drive train.

Like the front wheels bucking when in 4WD on dry pavement doing turns, the truck is saying "You love me don't you? Then please don't do that because I don't like it".

Listen to your 4Runner. It is talking to you.