2017 TRD Off Road vs TRD Pro

[socref516]

Ok, so here is a question: all of you have good info, and it makes sense not to buy a upgraded model if you re going to replace stuff (bumpers, suspension, etc). So, while that makes sense on the surface, from what I am seeing around the internet (using both autotrader and local dealer websites) it seems that the prices are not that much difference from the SR5 vs. the Trail, Trail Premium unless you are buying used. And even then it is not that big of a difference. Am I misreading this or is this the case? I would love to take the 4wd system on the Trail Premium and put it in the limited (I like the body style better) but that is not an option!

 

[1engineer]

Ok, so here is a question: all of you have good info, and it makes sense not to buy a upgraded model if you re going to replace stuff (bumpers, suspension, etc). So, while that makes sense on the surface, from what I am seeing around the internet (using both autotrader and local dealer websites) it seems that the prices are not that much difference from the SR5 vs. the Trail, Trail Premium unless you are buying used. And even then it is not that big of a difference. Am I misreading this or is this the case? I would love to take the 4wd system on the Trail Premium and put it in the limited (I like the body style better) but that is not an option!

Here's the deal:

The Trail Edition will always have a rear locker and maybe have KDSS as an option. That is the big difference between the SR5 and Trail Edition. The SR5 will never have those from the OEM.

If you are going to do extensive mods, get the SR5 and go wild. If not, get the TE.

 

[socref516]

Thanks. I guess it would be a lot easier fi the prices were that much of a difference, but in GA they are within 1-3k between the new and used ones.

 

[socref516]

So, on another note, did you mean any SR5 trail or the trail premium? They have so many models it is confusing.

 

[1engineer]

So, on another note, did you mean any SR5 trail or the trail premium? They have so many models it is confusing.

Not many models at all. Just remember that the Trail Edition is now called the TRD Off Road Edition for 2017 and beyond. First, go here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...ner-owner-need-help-searching-start-here.html and read everything. Then click here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/186247-5th-gen-features-models-differences.html to learn what each model has or does not have.

There are only four models:
SR5
Trail Edition (now the TRD Off Road Edition)
TRD PRO Edition (Same as Trail Edition but with different front end and suspension)
Limited Edition

All vehicles are very similar. The Limited is the "most" different because it has a different 4WD system as it is Full Time 4WD.
Enjoy!

 

[Jaydub514]

Found the guy who actually decided to read up before running his mouth.

The most informative post in the last few pages right here folks. And he didn't even mention what models were 'lesser', nor did he talk extensively about his vast mechanical skill prowess. Who would have thought!

This x1000...buy what you want, what will make you happy. I've said it before and I'll say it again, these vehicles in ANY trim are more capable than most of us will ever try to put them through. Don't be that guy who drives around with his nose in the air because he thinks he is better than everyone else.

So through the process of post cross checking and incorrect info elimination (i.e., actually reading the product information sheets):

- The TRDP does not come with turn signal indicators and puddle lights on the outside mirrors (at least in the US)

- Only the SR5 Premium and TRD Off Road Premium offer a sunroof option (used to be standard in both Premium packages in pre-2017 US models)

- Only the TRD Off Road (and the previous years Trails) offer KDSS as an option

AND

- Only the non-Premium SR5 and TRD Off Road are available with SR5/Trail/Off-Road Fabric Seats

Incidentally, my read is that KDSS is MOST useful for a multi-purpose (on road/off road/towing) vehicle, as it allows the use of larger stabilizer bars (1.68" front, versus 1.22" for 4x2 and Limited and 1.18" for all the other 4x4 vehicles; 1.18" rear, versus .787" for all non-KDSS equipped models), but still has acceptable off-road articulation.

Most industry reviewers seem to notice the contribution of KDSS the most when cornering on pavement. Coming from a track car background, I can't really say how much roll resistance you want/need for an off-road only vehicle, but I like the amount of roll resistance a KDSS-equipped vehicle has on the road. If you're putting together a pure off-road machine, you may not need it...

p.s. I think the (way too subtle) message many here are trying to convey is that if you are going to add a lot of weight in the form of armor and/or you are going to remove and replace a lot of the factory items (especially suspension, wheels, and tires), you might want to reconsider buying a model that has a lot of options you are going to remove...

 

[Jetboy]

So through the process of post cross checking and incorrect info elimination (i.e., actually reading the product information sheets):

- The TRDP does not come with turn signal indicators and puddle lights on the outside mirrors (at least in the US)

- Only the SR5 Premium and TRD Off Road Premium offer a sunroof option (used to be standard in both Premium packages in pre-2017 US models)

- Only the TRD Off Road (and the previous years Trails) offer KDSS as an option

AND

- Only the non-Premium SR5 and TRD Off Road are available with SR5/Trail/Off-Road Fabric Seats

Incidentally, my read is that KDSS is MOST useful for a multi-purpose (on road/off road/towing) vehicle, as it allows the use of larger stabilizer bars (1.68" front, versus 1.22" for 4x2 and Limited and 1.18" for all the other 4x4 vehicles; 1.18" rear, versus .787" for all non-KDSS equipped models), but still has acceptable off-road articulation.

Most industry reviewers seem to notice the contribution of KDSS the most when cornering on pavement. Coming from a track car background, I can't really say how much roll resistance you want/need for an off-road only vehicle, but I like the amount of roll resistance a KDSS-equipped vehicle has on the road. If you're putting together a pure off-road machine, you may not need it...

p.s. I think the (way too subtle) message many here are trying to convey is that if you are going to add a lot of weight in the form of armor and/or you are going to remove and replace a lot of the factory items (especially suspension, wheels, and tires), you might want to reconsider buying a model that has a lot of options you are going to remove...

Yes. With a few small additions. KDSS will have more travel than non KDSS in stock form. About an inch at each end. KDSS equipped models have unique shocks and springs that are corner specific. The front left coilover of a KDSS is not the same as the front left coilover of an Trail/TRD/sr5 for example. In many ways it's an offroader's dream concept. It's better than sway bar disconnects. It's just not fully optimized for offroad use in the 4runner as it is in the Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser has much greater suspension travel in the rear and a different KDSS linkage system.

KDSS for me is primarily a highway thing. However it really shines in body composure in slow offroad conditions as well. It does more than just force articulation, it stabilizes the body in the middle. So it will offer the same benefit on side hills for example, or more importantly if you wanted to overland in it. When you load up 300lbs of gear on the roof, and another 1000lbs inside it will offer a lot better comfort on mogul type terrain because it stabilizes the body roll better. Basically if you've ever driven an offroader without any type of stabilizer bars, then added them. It's like that compared to a non KDSS model. Toyota chose to run a KDSS model in the baja 1000 4runner along with the bilstein shocks that were in some ways the predecessor to the TRD Pro. Then for whatever reason it deleted KDSS from the PRO between the concepts and the first production run.

IMO it's ideal for highway, okay for rock crawling, and ideal for overland use. Probably not ideal for high speed offroad. It's locked over 12mph anyway so for high speed it's just a question of whether the spring rate of the bar is good for your overall suspension design.

KDSS is really a bandaid for another problem - the rear springs are mounted way inboard from the axle ends. In a perfect world you'd have springs and shocks that both are connected to the axle where the shocks are mounted now. Way out at the outside. The further inboard you move them toward the center line, the less body stability they provide. So the anti-roll bar has to compensate for that. The reason it's done this way is to increase articulation. The further in board you move the springs, the more articulation you can achieve with the same spring length - it changes the leverage. With the goal of also having maximized interior volume and not having springs that protrude into the cargo area, this compromise was required. So KDSS works to balance that problem primarily in the rear suspension. I'm sure you could achieve as good or better all around performance by re-locating the springs out to the corners, but you'd also need about twice the travel from each spring and that would mean you'd need to cut the springs into the rear cargo area like you would in a race truck.

On the bright side if you buy a Prado 150 - and you want KDSS, it's a $12,000 upgrade package. For us in the USA it's very cheap in comparison to what it costs to get anywhere else in the world.

If you want to go for a full extreme build, I'd start with an sr5 or a Limited because I'd throw all of the oem suspension and axles away anyway. Limited interior is nice. I'd actually probably consider stripping a GX460 because the v8 would be nice to have if you're spinning big tires and used ones are pretty comparable price wise.

 

[CorySW]

I went with the trdp. The resale value is insane and the suspension off road is great. I see guys putting trdp suspensions on their rigs and had a dealer offer to do that to get a sale. My opinion, it's still not a pro. You can throw thousands into mods on a truck and it doesn't do jack for resale value. The VIN still says the truck is the truck you bought. If keeping it a long time as with any vehicle have at it. But if only keeping a few years something to think about.

 

[JpAdct]

In my (humble and ignorant) opinion, unless you're getting the unique color of the year, or never intend to mod your 4Runner, the TRDP is an overpriced list of bolt on OEM accessories. Yes, they are limited supply and high demand, but as far as holding their value well, show me a 4Runner that doesn't. As for the suspension, I see way too many TRDP suspension systems for sale on these forums to convince me on how great they are. I bought a base TRD Off Road below invoice and have never looked back. I know I'll change suspension and tires, so why pay extra for a name and badging. No disrespect to the TRDP owners, I'm of course speaking purely out of jealousy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[b407driver]

Yes. With a few small additions. KDSS will have more travel than non KDSS in stock form. About an inch at each end. KDSS equipped models have unique shocks and springs that are corner specific. The front left coilover of a KDSS is not the same as the front left coilover of an Trail/TRD/sr5 for example.

Are you sure about this (i.e. the 'unique' shocks and springs in KDSS vehicles)?

I researched all this before I decided to build my '16 TEP, and could not find any differences (nor could the parts dept. at my local dealer). After the shocks on all 4 corners were removed, I verified that the springs were mounted the same (as opposed to the TDRP's asymmetrical front perch settings), and both sets of front/rears had identical part numbers (again, compared to the TDRP's different front shock part numbers). As an aside, that asymmetrical perch setting on the TRDP's front suspension actually exacerbated the lean in my KDSS vehicle (and I thus switched the shocks left-to-right, which mostly corrected the 'KDSS lean').

 

[Jetboy]

Are you sure about this (i.e. the 'unique' shocks and springs in KDSS vehicles)?

I researched all this before I decided to build my '16 TEP, and could not find any differences (nor could the parts dept. at my local dealer). After the shocks on all 4 corners were removed, I verified that the springs were mounted the same (as opposed to the TDRP's asymmetrical front perch settings), and both sets of front/rears had identical part numbers (again, compared to the TDRP's different front shock part numbers). As an aside, that asymmetrical perch setting on the TRDP's front suspension actually exacerbated the lean in my KDSS vehicle (and I thus switched the shocks left-to-right, which mostly corrected the 'KDSS lean').

It appears that they are now the same number. They previously were using different part numbers for Trail and Trail with KDSS as compared to SR5 4WD. It's odd that they retain the separate line sale position for KDSS, but now have the same part number.

Prior Part for the shock body # was 48510-35440 (kdss) compared to 48510-35430 for non KDSS 4wd for example - same on both sides, but different for KDSS. Similarly the LF spring should be 48131-35620 for non KDSS and 48131-35650 for KDSS equipped. The front RH springs are the same. Oddly enough looking at the part numbers the NON KDSS used different springs side to side while the KDSS used the same spring on both sides in the front. - ALso when you're looking at the part numbers GRN280 = 2wd and GRN285 = 4wd

 

[Jetboy]

I'll take a look at mine if I remember tonight. They're basically brand new in a box in my garage. I'll see if there's any visual differences from a 2015 TEP. I don't think I ever marked them right or left when I took em off though.

 

[b407driver]

It appears that they are now the same number. They previously were using different part numbers for Trail and Trail with KDSS as compared to SR5 4WD. It's odd that they retain the separate line sale position for KDSS, but now have the same part number.

Prior Part for the shock body # was 48510-35440 (kdss) compared to 48510-35430 for non KDSS 4wd for example - same on both sides, but different for KDSS. Similarly the LF spring should be 48131-35620 for non KDSS and 48131-35650 for KDSS equipped. The front RH springs are the same. Oddly enough looking at the part numbers the NON KDSS used different springs side to side while the KDSS used the same spring on both sides in the front. - ALso when you're looking at the part numbers GRN280 = 2wd and GRN285 = 4wd

Weird. Maybe they decided they should fix the 'gas/driver lean' in the SR5, just like in the TRD Pro? If so, similarly odd that they didn't just use those same shocks switched left-to-right to fix the 'KDSS lean' on Trails.

 

[Jetboy]

So I pulled my OEM shocks out. Same springs side to side by paint markings. And shocks were also same side to side. That would not match up to the current parts diagram used by most dealers. These were from a 2015 TEP that was manufactured in October or November of 2014.

 

[DeepSea]

So the TRD Off Road is a new name for Trail Edition. It's getting hard to keep up with all the acronyms and such. But let's call it a TRD-OR vs Pro. The TRD-OR can be bought in base or premium versions and with or without KDSS. Depending on market area KDSS is anywhere from nearly 100% of TRD-OR models to none.

The "premium" model of the TRD-OR is the same upgrade as the SR5 Premium. It adds heated windshield and mirrors, softex (fake leather) interior with heated seats, used to add sunroof by default, not required now, mirror puddle lights and turn signals in mirrors, Entune premium, homelink, auto dimming rear view mirror, and a few other things.

The TRD Pro now has softex standard to match the interior of the TRD-OR Premium but otherwise is the same as a TRD-OR base model. The TRD Pro package then adds the appearance package of black grill accents. It has an aluminum front skid plate where the TRD-OR has a steel one. And it also has Bilstien shocks that are very similar to the 6112/5120 combo. The PRO has the black wheels and different OEM tires - same size, but Nittos.

Compared to the Premium models it's missing a few things like homelink, premium entune, upgraded mirrors, auto dimming mirror, sunroof, and a few other bits. It's closer to a base model, but they're all reasonably similar with some small changes.

The TRD-OR has the option of KDSS. That's the big differentiation between them. If you're not familiar with KDSS it's a hydraulically linked front and rear antisway bar set. It's a feature exclusive to the Land Cruiser, GX460, and 4runner TRD-OR (and a few upper end Mclaren supercars also license the same system). You cannot get KDSS on a PRO. As between the two IMO KDSS is about a thousand times more desirable to me than the PRO appearance package and bilstien shocks. The original TRD PRO concepts had KDSS but it was deleted - my guess is that it was left off to keep the price point under the limited price.

For me personally I upgraded to fox suspension, so I would have tossed the bilstein shocks that the PRO comes with anyway. Fox suspension plus KDSS makes for a fantastic balance of street and offroad use. And it's adjustable height so I can compensate for my winch, and/or adjust for any height between 0 lift and 3 inches of lift with about 30 minutes of turning wrenches anytime I want.

Without the associated marketing of special colors and appearance trim parts, the TRD PRO is a lesser model than a TRD-OR Premium with KDSS. If you didn't know about the advertising you'd slot the TRD Pro below the OR Premium in the lineup. The interior/exterior premium additions are better, and KDSS is way better than a set of mid-range shocks. What's great is that you don't have to pay a big hype premium to get the best version of the 4runner.

In a perfect world we'd have an option for a Limited with KDSS and the off road features. Alas you'll have to pony up a minimum of around $65k to get a GX460 with crawl control and then another $2k or so to add a rear locker. That's as close as it gets from the factory for getting the best of everything.

#truth ORP with KDSS is where it's at
:cheers:

 

[browndirtcowboy]

So the TRD Off Road is a new name for Trail Edition. It's getting hard to keep up with all the acronyms and such. But let's call it a TRD-OR vs Pro. The TRD-OR can be bought in base or premium versions and with or without KDSS. Depending on market area KDSS is anywhere from nearly 100% of TRD-OR models to none.

The "premium" model of the TRD-OR is the same upgrade as the SR5 Premium. It adds heated windshield and mirrors, softex (fake leather) interior with heated seats, used to add sunroof by default, not required now, mirror puddle lights and turn signals in mirrors, Entune premium, homelink, auto dimming rear view mirror, and a few other things.

The TRD Pro now has softex standard to match the interior of the TRD-OR Premium but otherwise is the same as a TRD-OR base model. The TRD Pro package then adds the appearance package of black grill accents. It has an aluminum front skid plate where the TRD-OR has a steel one. And it also has Bilstien shocks that are very similar to the 6112/5120 combo. The PRO has the black wheels and different OEM tires - same size, but Nittos.

Compared to the Premium models it's missing a few things like homelink, premium entune, upgraded mirrors, auto dimming mirror, sunroof, and a few other bits. It's closer to a base model, but they're all reasonably similar with some small changes.

The TRD-OR has the option of KDSS. That's the big differentiation between them. If you're not familiar with KDSS it's a hydraulically linked front and rear antisway bar set. It's a feature exclusive to the Land Cruiser, GX460, and 4runner TRD-OR (and a few upper end Mclaren supercars also license the same system). You cannot get KDSS on a PRO. As between the two IMO KDSS is about a thousand times more desirable to me than the PRO appearance package and bilstien shocks. The original TRD PRO concepts had KDSS but it was deleted - my guess is that it was left off to keep the price point under the limited price.

For me personally I upgraded to fox suspension, so I would have tossed the bilstein shocks that the PRO comes with anyway. Fox suspension plus KDSS makes for a fantastic balance of street and offroad use. And it's adjustable height so I can compensate for my winch, and/or adjust for any height between 0 lift and 3 inches of lift with about 30 minutes of turning wrenches anytime I want.

Without the associated marketing of special colors and appearance trim parts, the TRD PRO is a lesser model than a TRD-OR Premium with KDSS. If you didn't know about the advertising you'd slot the TRD Pro below the OR Premium in the lineup. The interior/exterior premium additions are better, and KDSS is way better than a set of mid-range shocks. What's great is that you don't have to pay a big hype premium to get the best version of the 4runner.

In a perfect world we'd have an option for a Limited with KDSS and the off road features. Alas you'll have to pony up a minimum of around $65k to get a GX460 with crawl control and then another $2k or so to add a rear locker. That's as close as it gets from the factory for getting the best of everything.

Im with himimp:
Perfectly stated.

 

[browndirtcowboy]

Got it...

It really sucks as I want the Cement color, but not worth it if I'm getting a lesser vehicle.

So here's a funny thing... The 4Runner TRD Off Road Premium offers the following Packages:

1) $100- includes mooroof
2) $1350- includes KDSS and sliding cargo deck
3) $1850- includes KDSS and moonroof
4) $2200- includes moonroof, KDSS and sliding cargo deck

Who the hell is pricing these things?

If KDSS + Cargo = $1350... and moon roof is $100... how in the hell is the combo of all $2200? Should be $1450... where is the $750 markup coming from!!!?

LOL

And.. on top of that... I can't even choose option 4 with the Magnetic Grey Metallic color... only the Barcelona Red... (why the hell is that)? I can only choose the $1850 KDSS w/ moonroof...

I really want the sliding cargo deck, but it looks like that is a no go, are there any ways to get it + moonroof and KDSS? Or am I limited to aftermarket?


So assuming I went with the 2017 4Runner TRD Off Road Premium with the KDSS/Moonroof package (and no additional accessories) I'm looking at $42,105 (+ taxes i think).

It looks like I Can get TRD 17" Alloy Wheel for around $196 per online, and I Can do shocks aftermarket as well.

My biggest hesitation to pull the trigger is that hte 2017 4Runner do not have ANY of the convenient safety features almost all other Toyota have nowadays...

Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) Features for Toyota Owners

I've read that the 2018 model will include these standard...

My question is would you buy a vehicle without these features? Should i wait? I know nothing beats situational awareness... but the lane assist and blind spot monitoring seems very helpful...

Sorry for the long post I apprecaite your insight!!

One would certainly think that a 2018 OR premimum 4runner would include at least what a OR 2016 Tacoma would but one would be sadly mistaken. The dash in my 2016 OR Tacoma has much more to offer like...
Blind spot montoring
Color info screen in the dash That has...
TPMS on each tire great for airing back up
Roll and pitch in lively color
Navigation info
Music info
Compass
Messages
Phone calls
many options with fuel enconomy
All in a nice color large screen
Parking assist with beeping to know when your getting close to going over the edge of a cliff or a tree when off roading.
Wireless phone charging
Nice gopro mount on windshield with blackout section to reduce glare in the video
LED L shaped DRL's
Large 7" navigation display
JBL audio w/ sub which actually sounds good enough not to swap out
Pros now on the 4runner
More comfortable seating, more get up and go even though the Tacoma has 8 more HP the 3.5 feels extremely doggy. Even after adding trd CAI and magnaflow exhaust.
And that s about it as far as the pros. Go figure. The 4runner needs color info screen and larger navi screen with led DRL's. Toyota dropped the ball.
But no way in hell is the pro better than the OR prem. No moonroof, no blinkers in the mirrors not acceptable. The suspension is one that any true off roader would replace after 6 months if that and get Fox or King setup to be a real rig. Course this is merely my opinion.:cowboy:

 

[DeepSea]

One would certainly think that a 2018 OR premimum 4runner would include at least what a OR 2016 Tacoma would but one would be sadly mistaken. The dash in my 2016 OR Tacoma has much more to offer like...
Blind spot montoring
Color info screen in the dash That has...
TPMS on each tire great for airing back up
Roll and pitch in lively color
Navigation info
Music info
Compass
Messages
Phone calls
many options with fuel enconomy
All in a nice color large screen
Parking assist with beeping to know when your getting close to going over the edge of a cliff or a tree when off roading.
Wireless phone charging
Nice gopro mount on windshield with blackout section to reduce glare in the video
LED L shaped DRL's
Large 7" navigation display
JBL audio w/ sub which actually sounds good enough not to swap out
Pros now on the 4runner
More comfortable seating, more get up and go even though the Tacoma has 8 more HP the 3.5 feels extremely doggy. Even after adding trd CAI and magnaflow exhaust.
And that s about it as far as the pros. Go figure. The 4runner needs color info screen and larger navi screen with led DRL's. Toyota dropped the ball.
But no way in hell is the pro better than the OR prem. No moonroof, no blinkers in the mirrors not acceptable. The suspension is one that any true off roader would replace after 6 months if that and get Fox or King setup to be a real rig. Course this is merely my opinion.:cowboy:

You're spot on between the two as I have both now (15' TE 4R & 17' TRDOR Taco). It drives me absolutely mental that Toyota can't be consistent across the range of their vehicles. If they would have put the 4R seats and motor/tranny in the Taco, it would be the absolute best midsize truck they've ever made. Even just a manual height adjustment seat in the Taco would make it more desirable to many buyers. Also, no JBL in the Premium 4R nor Bilstein shocks dont come standard on the Trail/TRDOR like its siblings, the Tacoma & Tundra?? I really wish we had answers behind their decisions in all this.

 

[99superduty]

Same boat....I just traded a '16 Tacoma TRDOR for an '18 4Runner TRDOR. Just got tired of the wanky engine/tranny issues.

The 4runner was soooo much smoother but my only gripe is the center display and nav screen. The Tacoma wins in that department hands down. Why cant toyota just port that stuff over? Its been out for a couple of years now.

Other than that....very happy with the switch again. I had an '08 4runner sport V8 that I got rid of and kicked myself in the ass for doing so. I'm back in the 4runner fold now....

 

[MrGainzz]

Same boat....I just traded a '16 Tacoma TRDOR for an '18 4Runner TRDOR. Just got tired of the wanky engine/tranny issues.

The 4runner was soooo much smoother but my only gripe is the center display and nav screen. The Tacoma wins in that department hands down. Why cant toyota just port that stuff over? Its been out for a couple of years now.

Other than that....very happy with the switch again. I had an '08 4runner sport V8 that I got rid of and kicked myself in the ass for doing so. I'm back in the 4runner fold now....

Also,the 2019 Tacoma gets the most love too especially the TRD Pro. I guess the Japanese is planning to put all the Tacoma goodies in the 4runner in the redesign year which is in 2021.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk