2020 Toyota Supra

[thennen]

Benchmarked against the Porsche 718?

:rofl:

Yeah, Toyota, good luck with that.

Engine's in the wrong place if that's what your competition is.

Benchmark = "a standard or point of reference against which things may be compared or assessed." Doesn't necessarily mean 'engine in same location'. Benchmark is what you're aiming at, competition is who you're trying to beat. Cayman and Boxster aren't competition to the Supra, as they're in another price tier. Based on available specs, though, performance is similar. So maybe those cars are good benchmarks to aim for.

 

[LandCruiser]

Benchmark = "a standard or point of reference against which things may be compared or assessed." Doesn't necessarily mean 'engine in same location'. Benchmark is what you're aiming at, competition is who you're trying to beat. Cayman and Boxster aren't competition to the Supra, as they're in another price tier. Based on available specs, though, performance is similar. So maybe those cars are good benchmarks to aim for.

Honestly their biggest competitor will be the Z4, ironically.

Jalopnik photographed the Supra recently and showed it's essentially a reskinned Bimmer that slots exactly between the 4 bangers and the top of the line M in terms of power.

The performance numbers for the engine, if true, are shocking, tho. It would be faster than the 718 S.

 

[eyerolleddapiece]

We had one in the lobby at work yesterday, I snapped a couple of pics but nothing more exciting than you can see on the internet since it made its official debut on Monday in Detroit.

Parts of it I like, parts I'm not a fan of. Don't love the front bumper, rear end looks great. Didn't get a really good look at the interior because I had to look before they had it unlocked and available for us to get a close look. It'll sell, and it'll be a fun one to drive. I doubt anyone will be truly disappointed. And I'm sure the tuners will have a field day with it.

 

[thennen]

Honestly their biggest competitor will be the Z4, ironically.

Jalopnik photographed the Supra recently and showed it's essentially a reskinned Bimmer that slots exactly between the 4 bangers and the top of the line M in terms of power.

The performance numbers for the engine, if true, are shocking, tho. It would be faster than the 718 S.

Like most everyone else, I wish Toyota could/would have done it in-house from the ground up. I've been a die-hard Toyota fan since my first Corolla in 1982, so it's in my blood. I'm wondering if sub-$60k was a must-have price when they began the process, in order to have a larger pool of potential buyers. If so, grabbing some hardware that was already available would be one way to keep costs down, as designing an entirely new vehicle can be expensive. Bottom line for me - since they've already done it, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and see just what it is they've wrought. I hope I like it as much as I want to like it. And maybe they have some future changes in mind; maybe this is just the start.

 

[96RedRunner]

It seems that Toyota is not expecting to sell enough of these "Supras" to justify the cost of developing/engineering an entirely new platform from the ground up, so they put a Toyota badge on a BMW.

Once the available stock of serviceable mid-late 90's to mid 2000's Toyotas runs out, I see myself giving up on the brand.

You hit the nail on the head here. Don't like it for Supra, all about money.
The developing/engineering, Toyota could handle in house with the facilities they have, R&D is tip of the iceberg.
Getting it to production is the money hog since Supra is so different from current platforms they have.
That being the case means dedicated production lines from steel rolls and stamping dies till it's driving out the door.
Trim and Chassis right before it drives out the door is easiest integration part.
Paint, program robots already in use to spray Supra when Supra VIN hits the deck.
The body shop is the money hog, sub cells, cells, body main is all dedicated.
Then you need floorspace to put it, not cheap in Japan, Supra would deff be built in Japan.
A off the cuff est, 100 mil+ to get it out the door plus R&D costs for a niche ride.
So I see why they chose the route they did.

You ever get a chance to tour a auto plant do it, the automation is amazing.
It's a whole lotta fun making the robots dance together.

 

[Hepar]

Benchmarked against the Porsche 718?

:rofl:

Yeah, Toyota, good luck with that.

Engine's in the wrong place if that's what your competition is.

The performance numbers for the engine, if true, are shocking, tho. It would be faster than the 718 S.

Early estimates are a sub-8 Nurburgring time and maybe as quick as 7:40. The 718 S did it in 7:47. Now, granted the Supra numbers are just claims from the chief engineer, but if it's anything under 7:50, that's going to be impressive.

The Toyota Supra's Chief Engineer Thinks It Could Run a 7:40 Lap at the Nurburgring

 

[thennen]

That's what they should have called this thing...

Here’s Where Toyota and BMW Parted Ways on the New Supra

...and they should have a top of the line version called the Celica Supra like the olden days with 450-500HP with AWD as an option.

Anyway, when are the new 4runners coming out???

Actually, Celica Supra was a performance package added to the Celica back in 1978, I believe. The names were eventually separated and the Supra became its own car. Naming it the 'Celica Supra' today wouldn't make much sense, I don't think.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

This is the best article I have seen so far covering all the points/counterpoints...

Why People Don't Like the New Toyota GR Supra

 

[96RedRunner]

Good article, the more I read of it the car is built performance and handling is there. Not sold on the look be worth a visit at the lot, pics make things look fugly sometimes.

 

[Crusifix]

It isn't a 2+2, so for me it is a pass, and only a Supra in name. This is more of a fancy MR2 for that reason alone. Still nice, but it doesn't fit the original philosophy behind the Supra nameplate.

 

[96RedRunner]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-medi...ogressive,q_80,w_800/avo2xkwafsktsowl6jch.jpg

The one.

 

[Bumbo]

The nice BRZ comment was spot on… I was pretty excited about the new Supra, but I was expecting a lot more.

Aside from the styling cues which seem lost between its heritage and modern design, the power seems a bit underwhelming as well.

You know who did a good job on bringing back a classic… Acura with the NSX.

 

[Bumbo]

He loves the way the front wheel drive type-R drives? What???
.

If you ever had the pleasure of driving or owning the Integra Type R, it was one amazing machine. Front wheel drive, but still topped the charts around the autocross track beating things like corvettes.

While I am no longer in the ricer crowd or age group, I can still appreciate good engineering when I see it. The Type R actually does very well.

I also own an Acura TL, it's a cruiser, the Type R was a completely different driving experience, it handles like its on rails. Better than most AWD / RWD which outclass it. Normally I would agree with what you said, but that particular car is an exception to the rule...

 

[Inv4drZm]

You know who did a good job on bringing back a classic… Acura with the NSX.

Really? Yeah its cool but man its expensive.

I think it's a little interesting they sourced out part of it to BMW but didn't call it a Lexus.

 

[Bumbo]

Really? Yeah its cool but man its expensive.

I agree... couldn't afford it then, can't really afford it now either haha.

I was more or less referring to the execution and nailing the heritage and spirit of the car in the redesign. They completed missed that here IMO.

 

[Crusifix]

Honestly, I would rather buy a used BRZ for about $25k, build the engine and turbo it. But I have the ability and tools to do that. So, that is just me.

 

[96RedRunner]

And I'm sure the tuners will have a field day with it.

Seems that's what Yota is hoping for. Some of what is being said BMW design had higher HP numbers, Yota felt reliabilty was questionable detuned it, word's not out yet how they detuned it, HP could be there with a tune ?

 

[Bumbo]

I get the tuner market generally gets excited about stuff like this, the BRZ is a good example of that, but I don’t have the time or patience for any of that stuff anymore. For those that just want a turn-key sports car, this feels like they are leaving some potential on the table.

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

Perusing the MKIV Owners group on FB and saved this comment.

The MKIV IS the reason why anyone gives a jump squatting shit about Supras at all.

That said, a MKIV is an overbuilt car that makes a lot of power easy, reliably and has/had affordable replacement parts.

That's just not the case with the Z4, nor has it ever been with the Z4.

The MKV Supra IS a BMW Z4 where it counts and, the reliability and affordability will reflect as such.


If the lineage stopped with the MKIII Supra, nobody would be talking about a Supra in 2019.

The power train of the MKIV is what set a benchmark.

The MKIV Supra is arguably the most affordable hot rod to make reliable power with, ever.

Name another car no matter the manufacturer that has a drivetrain equal to or greater than the MKIV with replacement parts from the dealer that doesn't break your bank?

The b58 is nothing spectacular in 2019 compared to what the 2JZGTE was in 1993.

This rendering says it all.

 

[96RedRunner]

[MENTION=25058]ChildrenOfBodom[/MENTION], sums it up spot on in my eye's. Shame to the heritage of MKIV, shame on Yota.
Like first round draft picks, boom or bust?