245/70r17 tire question

[Hi-Fi]

Hi, I've got a dumb tire question, but first here's a little background.

I recently bought a 2005 T4R SE V8 with stock suspension and stock size tires (P265/65r17). I live in Wisconsin, and this is my daily driver. I need to be able to tow a small travel trailer during summer months.

The tires that came on it are crap, so I'm looking at LT tires (for towing) with the "snowflake" emblem (for winter driving). I only found one in the standard size, the BFG T/A KO, which I read is a pretty good tire and is on my list.

There are quite a few more choices if I go to a 70-series 265/70r17, but apparently I'd have to make some bodywork changes to avoid rubbing. That's not out of the question, but I'd prefer not to have to go that route.

Then I found the DuraTrac LT tires with the snowflake emblem in 245/70r17. They are the same diameter as the standard size but about 3/4" skinnier. I have read some great reviews of that tire, so it went right to the top of my list, but I have found NOBODY else is talking about using that size tire on a 4runner.

So, here is my dumb question:
What are the pro's and con's of going to a skinnier tire? Gas mileage? Wet traction? Traction on ice?

Am I missing anything else?

Thanks, Bill

 

[chaz]

bill, if u have the stock rims with no wheel spacers, & no lift like u said in ur other post, 265/70/17 will fit fine in most brands, the only thing is there r at least a couple that may or maynot rub ever so sightly at full turn, BFG at & GY duratrac.nothing to really worry about, all u might have to do is move the inner plastic fender forward a bit if they do. take a look at the way JA has done it in his wheel spacers section. Toyota 4Runner Wheel Spacers its very easy & unnoticable. there are some guys that like skinnys but, imo, 245s are too much so, a 255/75/17 would be a better choice. u may want to consider the tires in this thread. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/perfo...gers-more/58825-255-75-17-installed-pics.html & they have the snow flake.

 

[Hi-Fi]

Chaz, Thanks for the reply! I hadn't read the discussion about the 255/75 tires; very interesting. I was surprised to read that they fit so well. However, I don't think they are for me since I'm after LT tires that will be more appropriate for towing. I re-read JA's article about moving the fender liner and trimming the fender. I guess it doesn't look too difficult, and I will certainly keep the DuraTrac LT165/70 up toward the top of my list.

Still looking for feedback about the LT145/70 though.

 

[chaz]

not that im pushing them, i only posted that thread for size reference, but those GY do come in E load as well as 245/70. what load range r u looking for in an LT? LT tires are available in three different plys. A tire rated C is a six-ply. D is eight-ply and an E is a 10-ply tire. Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor but im guessing u want an aggressive looking tire, either way, goodluck

 

[Hi-Fi]

not that im pushing them, i only posted that thread for size reference, but those GY do come in E load as well as 245/70. what load range r u looking for in an LT? LT tires are available in three different plys. A tire rated C is a six-ply. D is eight-ply and an E is a 10-ply tire. Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor but im guessing u want an aggressive looking tire, either way, goodluck

Chaz, Thanks again for the reply. I'm glad you mentioned the Silent Armor tires. They have replaced the DuraTrac's at the top of my list because I've read that they are less "squirmy" when pulling a heavy trailer. They are supposed to be very good in snow also. They are also available in the LT245/70r17 size in load range E.

I am still leaning toward that size.

Bill

 

[Maz]

Chaz, Thanks again for the reply. I'm glad you mentioned the Silent Armor tires. They have replaced the DuraTrac's at the top of my list because I've read that they are less "squirmy" when pulling a heavy trailer. They are supposed to be very good in snow also. They are also available in the LT245/70r17 size in load range E.

I am still leaning toward that size.

Bill

Bill the "squirmy" feeling has been reported almost exclusively in very heavy rigs like a 3/4 ton with a deisel engine. In addition that's not taking in account the rating because when you read these reviews they're often talking about very big tires such as the 315 size, which only comes in D. Lastly if you read here and on the 120 site4, you'll find people using the Duratrac for heavy loads with the E load rating and / or airing up a little bit when towing. I can't recall a single person sayhing they experienced the squirm problem with a T4R, in fact just the opposite...saying they didn't have any such problem at all.

It's your choice obviously, however I think perhaps you may be projecting a problem into the mix which doesn't apply to your particuarlar circumstances. The T4R just isn't a big enough rig for this issue to manifest itself, and you can't tow anything that big with a T4r. One last note, the Silent Armour is a very nice tire without doubt. However if you're planning to do any offroading, the Silent Armor doesn't even come close to being comperable to the performance you'd get from a Duratrac while offroad.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

They are also available in the LT245/70r17 size in load range E.

I am still leaning toward that size.

Bill

Have you studied a 245/75/17? There's many options including some LT's that you could pump up when towing... That size gets you into 31+ inches which looks much better and is about the same as a 265/70. It would also retain the advantages of the 245 width. (The 31.6"ish 265/70 is perhaps the popular upgrade size on the 4th gens, I personally love the 255/75's but would consider the 245/75's as well given your goals.)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?width=245/&ratio=75&diameter=17&x=82&y=11

 

[Hi-Fi]

They are also available in the LT245/70r17 size in load range E. I am still leaning toward that size.

Bill

The Silent Armor LT265/70r17 in load range C is a close second on my list.
Maybe I can get by without doing any body work for clearance with this tire?
The bad thing is the price, about $100 more than the 245's for a set of four.
Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Hi-Fi]

Have you studied a 245/75/17? There's many options including some LT's that you could pump up when towing... That size gets you into 31+ inches which looks much better and is about the same as a 265/70. It would also retain the advantages of the 245 width.
Tire Search Results

CJ3Flyr, thanks for the input. I must have been typing my previous reply when you posted yours.

I noticed the 245/75 (load range E) on the Tire Rack web site, but according to their chart the OD of that tire is virtually the same as the 245/70 (load range E) tire and it has less tread depth. The P-245/75 has an OD of 31.5 but the LT245/75E is 30.5. I don't know if the chart is wrong or not. Seems odd. Maybe I'll check on a different web site.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

CJ3Flyr, thanks for the input. I must have been typing my previous reply when you posted yours.

I noticed the 245/75 (load range E) on the Tire Rack web site, but according to their chart the OD of that tire is virtually the same as the 245/70 (load range E) tire and it has less tread depth. The P-245/75 has an OD of 31.5 but the LT245/75E is 30.5. I don't know if the chart is wrong or not. Seems odd. Maybe I'll check on a different web site.

Good catch! BFG, Bridgestone, Dunlop and good old fashion math have the 245/75/17 in the 31.5" (+/-) range
:cheers:

 

[Hi-Fi]

Bill the "squirmy" feeling has been reported almost exclusively in very heavy rigs like a 3/4 ton with a deisel engine. In addition that's not taking in account the rating because when you read these reviews they're often talking about very big tires such as the 315 size, which only comes in D. Lastly if you read here and on the 120 site4, you'll find people using the Duratrac for heavy loads with the E load rating and / or airing up a little bit when towing. I can't recall a single person sayhing they experienced the squirm problem with a T4R, in fact just the opposite...saying they didn't have any such problem at all.

It's your choice obviously, however I think perhaps you may be projecting a problem into the mix which doesn't apply to your particuarlar circumstances. The T4R just isn't a big enough rig for this issue to manifest itself, and you can't tow anything that big with a T4r. One last note, the Silent Armour is a very nice tire without doubt. However if you're planning to do any offroading, the Silent Armor doesn't even come close to being comperable to the performance you'd get from a Duratrac while offroad.

Maz, Thanks much for the comments. I didn't see it until just now.

I started with the Duratrac at the top of my list. You're probably right; I may have read one comment about it not being as "solid" when towing and didn't pay enough attention to the details. Based on your comment I'm going to add them back onto my list.

I'm not really into offroading, but I do like the looks of the Duratrac, and from what I've read it has great traction and isn't too noisy.

The Duratracs come in both of the sizes I'm considering. The LT245/70r17 which is the same OD as the standard equipment tire but about 3/4" more narrow, and the LT265/70r17, the same width as standard but about 1/2" larger on the radius. I have read that I will definitely have to modify the inner fender and trim the fender itself to avoid rubbing with the larger tire. It doesn't look too hard to do, but with a high temperature in the 20's and an unheated garage I wouldn't look forward to doing it.

Maz, do you have any comments about the 245/70 size? It is still on top of my list because I know it will fit with no mods. What cons are there that I might not be considering?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[Hi-Fi]

Well, I just pulled the trigger on four LT245/70r17E GY Wrangler Silent Armors. I think they will be fine for what I need; decent in the Wisconsin winters and good for towing. I'm probably the only guy here that has "upgraded" to a smaller tire, but I'm OK with being an oddball.
I'll take some pictures with my current tires on before I put them on, then new pictures with my new tires.
Thanks for the input everyone!
Bill

 

[Maz]

Maz, Thanks much for the comments. I didn't see it until just now...Maz, do you have any comments about the 245/70 size? It is still on top of my list because I know it will fit with no mods. What cons are there that I might not be considering?

Thanks,
Bill

Firstly I'm not in agreement that you would have to be moving things around to get a 265/70/17 to fit. On the contrary many people have said just the opposite they have no rubbing with that size at all despite having no lift. Now there have been reports people having very slight rubbing in the KO using the 265/70/17 size on standard suspensions. However the KO is a very, very square corner tire, in a class really all by itself as to fit. The Duratrac when you see it in person isn't nearly as squared off in my opinion, and I've not heard of a single person who's had to do a mod for fit with such a small difference between the 65 and 70 size.

As far as your question on size 245/70/17 that a new one I've never heard anyone try before. We have seen quite a few people who like to go tall using 255/75/17, and in the case of the BFG Mud Terrain KM2's even a 255/80/17. This to create lift with a tall tire, but avoid the corner of the tire rubbing via the narrower footprint. In theory a narrower tire can dig down in snow to find firmer footing. However for those that drive in mud or sand decreasing the width of the footprint is exactly what you DON'T want to do. Personally I think it's unwise for wet climate driving too.

Frankly I have strong reservations about taking the footprint of a relatively high sided and heavier vehicle like the T4R down so narrow. Even recognizing a possible counter argument the 255/80/17 with it's extra heighth and slightly larger footprint might be more or less the same thing. The point is Bill I don't get what your trying to accomplish going so narrow, other than trying to insure you don't rub. However I don't believe you are going to rub in size 265/70/17, which is the size the 4th Gen really should have come with in the first place. You may not know that they fixed that error, and the 5th Gen come standard with 265/70/17 tires. That was also the size for the 3rd Gen if memory serves.

Let me suggest you at least to do a test fit and install some 265/70/17 tires and see if the work without rubbing. I'm betting they will unless you try a KO, which is not on your list anyway. In that case you're not out a dime, because your not changing out the tires to another size and paying a re-installation fee. In the odd chance they do rub, as others have mentioned the fix is so minor it's hardly worth worrying about.

In the end I think you'll be much happier driving with the more natural 265/70/17 size. It will look much better on your vehicle too.

 

[Hi-Fi]

Maz,
Thanks for your input. Hmmm... Darn, I thought I was done thinking about this. Maybe I'll call and cancel my order, at least for the time being.

Here are a few things that factored into my decision (that I'm re-considering now because of your comments)

1. I've looked at a lot of trucks and similar size SUVs in parking lots lately, and have seen mostly 235 and 245 wide tires. I have seen some 265's, but not many.

2. There is $40 to $50 difference per tire between the GYWSA 245/70E and the 265/70E. That adds up quickly when you multiply by four. Not the end of the world, but still, a buck is a buck.

3. Regarding vehicle stability, the difference in foot print, from outside of tire to outside of tire, between the 245 and the 265 is going to be only about 3/4". I don't know if that's going to make a lot of difference in the resistance to the vehicle rolling over or not. I would think that a 3" lift might be more of a concern but I'm not sure.

4. As far as looks go, the 245/70 is almost identical in diameter to the 265/65 standard equipment, so from the side it should look the same. I don't think that looks too bad, myself. Certainly the 265's look good and beefy from the front or rear, but the 245's won't look any different from most other SUV's I've seen. I'm cool with the looks part.

5. I would think that the 245 might get better gas mileage due to decreased rolling resistance and lower rotational mass, but that's just a side benefit if it's there at all.

I'm certainly willing to reconsider my decision, and will appreciate more comments from you, Maz, or anyone else who have anything to add.

Bill

 

[Hi-Fi]

Maz, what do you think of Nitto Terra Grapplers?

I just can't get over the price tag for the GYWSA 265/70 load range E, but just found some TG's in load range E that seem reasonably priced. They seem to be pretty good on wet roads and in snow. Rub? Anything else?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[Hi-Fi]

The TG's I'm referring to are LT265/70r17E

 

[chaz]

on the fence again ? :wow: just joking, i know it is sometimes hard to make a decision when that much $ is concerned. the terras are good tires, then again, there are reviews of alot of different tires on this forum. another nice one is the hankook dynapro atm rf10, it kinda resembles the terra grapplers. i gotta agree with maz, no matter what brand u settle on, the 265/70 would be a better choice over the 245s if towing is the biggest factor, im not sure doing it with narrower tires is the way to go. an inch more tread does make a difference in stability when towing. as long as u have stock wheels, no wheel spacers & a good alignment, u wont have rubbing. everybody has they're own opinion, i like my mickeys get the brand & size U want.:cheers:

 

[Hi-Fi]

Well, it's snowing for the second time here. I gotta get some tires soon, so I just changed my order to the Terra Grapplers in LT265/70R17E. I think they will be fine. I'm not really sure I understand why, but there must be a good reason that nobody is going the 245/70 route.

Thanks Chaz and Maz and CJ3Flyr

 

[Hi-Fi]

You guys are going to think I'm a woman, but I changed my mind again.

I noticed Farm & Fleet was having a buy 3 get one free sale. Four Michelin LTX A/T2's in LT265/70R17E were a little over $800 after tax, mounted, lifetime balanced and road hazard. Got to the checkout line and found out that they were giving 10% off if you signed up for a credit card. Walked out the door for less than $730.

They were special order so I won't have them for a week or so. In the mean time I'm going to attempt to move the fender liner and trim the fender, just in case.

I'm happy now.

Bill

 

[Anthy Giakoumelos]

Tires question please help

Can i use 245/75r17 tires on a 2011 sr5 standard 4runner