4:88s or 5:29s

[4Reak Show]

So happy with the 5.29s
I seriously thought that it was going to bug me until I got the 35s but it feels amazing.
Did the initial break in and drove 60 miles with 2 pit stops in between to let things cool down.
I honestly couldn’t be happier.
Now to see how they feel on the trail.

Awesome to hear!

Just curious about speed accuracy here. If the speed sensor is in transmission and calibrated for the 4.30’s, then isn’t it more transmission output revolutions for that same speed? Meaning, the display is showing “X” amount of revolutions to achieve 60mph but really it’s an additional revolution to travel the same distance?

Or maybe it’s close enough and who gives a shit especially if you’re satisfied. Just a random thought I had when I saw the picture.

I’m betting 4 low on the trail is gonna feel waaaay different. Going to take an entire additional driveshaft revolution for the tires to travel the same distance.

 

[4Reak Show]

So I was good at math once upon a time. Does this make any sense?:

33” tire = 16.5” radius = 103.6” circumference (or the distance traveled on a single tire rotation).

5,280 feet per mile x 12 inches per foot = 63,360 inches per mile.

63,360 inches per mile / 103.6 inches traveled per tire revolution = 611.5 tire revolutions per mile.

611.5 x 4.30 factory gearing = 2629 driveshaft revolutions per mile. (So at 60 factory mph, the driveshaft would spin 2629 times in one minute and display 60 on the gauge)

611.5 x 5.29 new gearing = 3235 driveshaft revolutions per mile on new gearing. Meaning to travel the same distance, the driveshaft needs to spin 3235 times. But it’s only traveling 2629 times to SHOW 60 on the speedo (as theorized above).

2629 actual / 3235 needed for same distance = 81% of revolutions required by driveshaft per mile. (Meaning you’re only traveling 81% of the distance required as compared to factory calibrated speedo)

81% of 60 miles per hour = 49 miles per hour. There’s no way it’s that far off is it?

That means you’d have to have a displayed 87 mph to be going 70 actual (87 X 81% = 70)

Man that’s a big difference. If that’s true it would mean you’re adding false miles too. You need to find a radar checker and see if that’s the case haha. Or maybe you put in a calibrated speedo gear and I just wasted my time.

 

[MarkamisPrime]

Idk math at all [emoji28]
But my Speedo is 4-5 mph off
So really I was going 65 in the pic
I also called my wife who was in front of me she said she had her car in cruise control at 65mph
I was right behind her
I really need to find a radar checker or open google maps while I’m driving to check my actual mph.

 

[Bad Luck]

Awesome to hear!

Just curious about speed accuracy here. If the speed sensor is in transmission and calibrated for the 4.30’s, then isn’t it more transmission output revolutions for that same speed? Meaning, the display is showing “X” amount of revolutions to achieve 60mph but really it’s an additional revolution to travel the same distance?

Or maybe it’s close enough and who gives a shit especially if you’re satisfied. Just a random thought I had when I saw the picture.

I’m betting 4 low on the trail is gonna feel waaaay different. Going to take an entire additional driveshaft revolution for the tires to travel the same distance.

For vehicles with ABS the speedometer uses the wheel speed sensors at the axle shafts (front wheel speed sensors in the steering knuckle and rear wheel speed sensors on the axle housing). This means that any changes before the wheel speed sensors do not affect the speedometer accuracy. Only changes after the wheel speed sensor (larger tires) affect the speedometer accuracy.

For vehicles without abs the speed sensor is in the transmission output housing for 2wd or the transfer case rear output for 4wd. Meaning that any changes after that including differential gear ratios and different size tires will cause the speedometer to be inaccurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[4Reak Show]

Idk math at all [emoji28]
But my Speedo is 4-5 mph off
So really I was going 65 in the pic
I also called my wife who was in front of me she said she had her car in cruise control at 65mph
I was right behind her
I really need to find a radar checker or open google maps while I’m driving to check my actual mph.

Ha. I’m such a dipshit. Google maps or gps would clearly and easily tell you the answer. But I still had fun moving around fancy numbers.

For vehicles with ABS the speedometer uses the wheel speed sensors at the axle shafts (front wheel speed sensors in the steering knuckle and rear wheel speed sensors on the axle housing). This means that any changes before the wheel speed sensors do not affect the speedometer accuracy. Only changes after the wheel speed sensor (larger tires) affect the speedometer accuracy.

For vehicles without abs the speed sensor is in the transmission output housing for 2wd or the transfer case rear output for 4wd. Meaning that any changes after that including differential gear ratios and different size tires will cause the speedometer to be inaccurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah good call. I was pretty sure the older ones had a sensor to feed speedo directly, and wasn’t sure if wheel speed sensors were for ABS alone or dual purpose and also fed the speedo.

 

[octanejunkie]

For vehicles with ABS the speedometer uses the wheel speed sensors at the axle shafts (front wheel speed sensors in the steering knuckle and rear wheel speed sensors on the axle housing). This means that any changes before the wheel speed sensors do not affect the speedometer accuracy. Only changes after the wheel speed sensor (larger tires) affect the speedometer accuracy.

Can one "adjust" speedo accuracy or just need to know our real speed when changing tire size?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Bad Luck]

Can one "adjust" speedo accuracy or just need to know our real speed when changing tire size?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

You can but it requires installing a Dakota Digital speedometer calibrator. Phattyduck has one installed but I can't seem to find a more detailed write up from him. Here's the post I found: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3389970-post7.html I'll try quoting him here and see if we can summon the master.

Speedometer calibration cannot happen through the ECU/OBD-II port. Not only is the ECU not programmable, the speedometer SENDS the signal to the ECU, not the other way around.

On ABS equipped 3rd gen 4Runners (almost all of them), the system goes like this:
ABS wheel speed sensors -> ABS computer -> Gauge cluster -> ECU (and 4WD computer, diff lock ECU, etc.)

To calibrate the speedo (and the speed the ECU sees and reports via OBD-II), you need to interrupt the signal between the ABS computer and the gauge cluster and use a calibrator there.

I chose the Dakota Digital speedometer calibrator, and installed it in the passenger kick panel next to the ABS computer:

-Charlie

EDIT: Also note that gearing will have no effect on the speedometer, since the speed signal is taken from the wheels, not the transmission/transfer case output. Only tire rolling diameter will change the speedo reading.

 

[fourfive]

So happy with the 5.29s
I seriously thought that it was going to bug me until I got the 35s but it feels amazing.
Did the initial break in and drove 60 miles with 2 pit stops in between to let things cool down.
I honestly couldn’t be happier.
Now to see how they feel on the trail.

Thanks for posting this & showing your rpm at speed. I'm on 315/75/16 & have been back & forth between 4.88 & 5.29. The majority of my work commute is on the interstate which is why I was initially considering 4.88 but recently have been leaning towards 5.29. This helped.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I ran 34's for a while on 5.29's before I went full retard with the Pitbull Rockers in 35". They are a true 35 and measured 35.25" aired up with the weight of the truck on them. Once I drove the rig with those under it I really wished they made deeper gears for our rigs. lol

There is, Nitro gears makes a 5.71 super short gear set. I considered it for a hot minute before buying the 5.29's that are sitting on my bench as I save up the funds for installation. I think that with 5.71's it'd be a bit of a pain to drive on the highway with RPM's around 3200 at 70 MPH.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Can one "adjust" speedo accuracy or just need to know our real speed when changing tire size?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

I believe our Tacoma cousins lucked out and they can 're-gear' the speedometer signal from the transmission along with any tire or gear change. Our 4Runners for some reason were made differently and we cannot without altering the voltage signal.

 

[JWaldz]

Did you have them install their sleeve to replace the needle bearing on the front diff?

Yes, the solid pinion spacer is the way to go.

 

[busmup808]

There is, Nitro gears makes a 5.71 super short gear set. I considered it for a hot minute before buying the 5.29's that are sitting on my bench as I save up the funds for installation. I think that with 5.71's it'd be a bit of a pain to drive on the highway with RPM's around 3200 at 70 MPH.

The pinion on the 5.71 is smaller and is know to snap when wheeling under load.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[fourwd1]

The pinion on the 5.71 is smaller and is know to snap when wheeling under load.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Possibly under extreme conditions, but then I've trashed a 5.29 set or two.

 

[busmup808]

Possibly under extreme conditions, but then I've trashed a 5.29 set or two.

I never ran 5.71s on my truck, but my friend had a set on his 82 with 42s. It was a pavement pounder, so no wheeling and it snapped just moving forward from a red light. Truck had a small block 350.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MarkamisPrime]

Smiles per gallon are exactly the same as they were before the gear change.
Major bonus

 

[Romeo1]

I keep feeling this urge to go to 34 or 35” tires. The rig works really well the way it is on 32s and has been surprisingly capable. I want to go bigger, but i’m just scared I might ruin it. I don’t know anyone how has a built up 3rd gen past 33” tires that isn’t just a street only vehicle.

My issue is the local off road club/group is they pretty well want 35s and twin locked for many of the runs. I feel like I’m missing out by not going with them. The majority have some really well built TJs or JKs.

I don’t use this vehicle as a daily at all. That said, I do need it to drive 70 when we load up and go to Moab or St. George for a week with an 8 ht drive as I don’t want to trailer it. My wife usually drives it as I tow the RV.

Am I asking for too much to have a rally machine and it still drives when it needs to on bigger tires? I’m thinking 34s or 35s on top 5.29‘s, Airlocker upfront, and maybe change the rear e locker to air also. 1” body lift to help avoid not having to cut it all to pieces. I’m a little scared to lose floor space or dead pedal as I’m not exactly a small person. I have a hard time getting excited about cutting the fenders clear open. I don’t have any plans to ever sell the rig, Especially since I’ll have teenagers in a few years driving, but I’d like to bring it back to semi-normal if I ever have to.

I’m fine buying whatever axle shafts are needed, even if they’re expensive. Trail repairs are a buzz kill, and I’d like to avoid that and broken shafts as much as I can.

Ultimate goal would be a good coil over SAS set up, but that might just be too much for what I need. I can fab and build whatever with guidance. Getting the geometry right is the biggest hurdle I think. My biggest issue these days is time. I could probably take the winter to get the project done, but during the spring summer and fall between work in my family trips, time seems to be really limited for big projects.

Thoughts? It just seems like based on the gearing calculator, 5.29 makes a lot of sense for an auto 99’. All of the comments in this thread seem to say that also. Or am I kidding my self and I just need to stay with 32’s? And 4.30s?

 

[octanejunkie]

FWIW, I in the process of upgrading to 33s (done) and 4.88 gears (pending) and I expect that setup to be just as capable as 35s

There's only 1 inch difference in clearance (less) but also less unsprung weight with the smaller tire. I've read a lot of reports of broken 5.29 gears...

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[gamefreakgc]

I keep feeling this urge to go to 34 or 35” tires. The rig works really well the way it is on 32s and has been surprisingly capable. I want to go bigger, but i’m just scared I might ruin it. I don’t know anyone how has a built up 3rd gen past 33” tires that isn’t just a street only vehicle.

My issue is the local off road club/group is they pretty well want 35s and twin locked for many of the runs. I feel like I’m missing out by not going with them. The majority have some really well built TJs or JKs.

I don’t use this vehicle as a daily at all. That said, I do need it to drive 70 when we load up and go to Moab or St. George for a week with an 8 ht drive as I don’t want to trailer it. My wife usually drives it as I tow the RV.

Am I asking for too much to have a rally machine and it still drives when it needs to on bigger tires? I’m thinking 34s or 35s on top 5.29‘s, Airlocker upfront, and maybe change the rear e locker to air also. 1” body lift to help avoid not having to cut it all to pieces. I’m a little scared to lose floor space or dead pedal as I’m not exactly a small person. I have a hard time getting excited about cutting the fenders clear open. I don’t have any plans to ever sell the rig, Especially since I’ll have teenagers in a few years driving, but I’d like to bring it back to semi-normal if I ever have to.

I’m fine buying whatever axle shafts are needed, even if they’re expensive. Trail repairs are a buzz kill, and I’d like to avoid that and broken shafts as much as I can.

Ultimate goal would be a good coil over SAS set up, but that might just be too much for what I need. I can fab and build whatever with guidance. Getting the geometry right is the biggest hurdle I think. My biggest issue these days is time. I could probably take the winter to get the project done, but during the spring summer and fall between work in my family trips, time seems to be really limited for big projects.

Thoughts? It just seems like based on the gearing calculator, 5.29 makes a lot of sense for an auto 99’. All of the comments in this thread seem to say that also. Or am I kidding my self and I just need to stay with 32’s? And 4.30s?

I have a neighbor that has two 4Runners, one with 35's and the other with 38's. The 38's have terrible road manners - I realize you're not asking about that size - and has to be trailered for several reasons. The 4Runner on 35's is his wife's vehicle but it doesn't see a lot of use anymore. Part of what you need to think about is who's going to be driving it on those long road trips, which you said is your wife. With heavier wheels, taller lift, different steering geometry it's going to handle and drive a lot different. Not to mention increase in tire and road noise. It get less and less fun to drive on highways the bigger you lift and the bigger the tires but it's very subjective as to how loud is too loud. I just know that from my neighbor's example, the lifted 4Runner he made for his wife to go wheeling with him doesn't see a lot of use anymore.

There are many trails that can be done with much less than 35's and dual locked and that are still a lot of fun. If you are getting into some serious hard core wheeling, yeah you're going to need something more. But if you are just looking for a good time, find others who are not as hardcore or want to switch it up and do a more enjoyable run. I've tried wheeling a few times and went with some guys here on the forums and I went with a stock 4Runner with running boards (!) and came out fine on a trail that was a lot of fun.

I think what I'm trying to say is that we can't really decide that for you. Our experiences are not the same as yours and our goals for our 4Runners are not the same as yours. Even if you did get big tires and re-gear, if you find you don't like it you can still keep the gears and switch back to a 32" or 33" tire with the 1" body lift and that would still work out great. I mean, I'm putting 5.29's in a stock 30.5" tire setup, hehehe.

 

[Romeo1]

I have a neighbor that has two 4Runners, one with 35's and the other with 38's. The 38's have terrible road manners - I realize you're not asking about that size - and has to be trailered for several reasons. The 4Runner on 35's is his wife's vehicle but it doesn't see a lot of use anymore. Part of what you need to think about is who's going to be driving it on those long road trips, which you said is your wife. With heavier wheels, taller lift, different steering geometry it's going to handle and drive a lot different. Not to mention increase in tire and road noise. It get less and less fun to drive on highways the bigger you lift and the bigger the tires but it's very subjective as to how loud is too loud. I just know that from my neighbor's example, the lifted 4Runner he made for his wife to go wheeling with him doesn't see a lot of use anymore.

There are many trails that can be done with much less than 35's and dual locked and that are still a lot of fun. If you are getting into some serious hard core wheeling, yeah you're going to need something more. But if you are just looking for a good time, find others who are not as hardcore or want to switch it up and do a more enjoyable run. I've tried wheeling a few times and went with some guys here on the forums and I went with a stock 4Runner with running boards (!) and came out fine on a trail that was a lot of fun.

I think what I'm trying to say is that we can't really decide that for you. Our experiences are not the same as yours and our goals for our 4Runners are not the same as yours. Even if you did get big tires and re-gear, if you find you don't like it you can still keep the gears and switch back to a 32" or 33" tire with the 1" body lift and that would still work out great. I mean, I'm putting 5.29's in a stock 30.5" tire setup, hehehe.

That last sentence you said…. It had 225/75/ SL 16 tires when I got it. Man it was fun to drive with the 4.30s. Really zippy. I think the 5.29 would help bring that back.

It’s not bad at all now. But the bigger tires will definitely take away without a regear I think. lol

 

[Romeo1]

FWIW, I in the process of upgrading to 33s (done) and 4.88 gears (pending) and I expect that setup to be just as capable as 35s

There's only 1 inch difference in clearance (less) but also less unsprung weight with the smaller tire. I've read a lot of reports of broken 5.29 gears...

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Man a broken pinion would suck….I’m guessing there’s less reports of broken 4.88 due to gears getting stronger as you go longer/taller?