4-Link WITHOUT Moving Gas Tank

[DaMonkey]

I'm working up a kit (dual triangulated 4-link) to use with a 1" body lift. Still in the modeling phase, though (working the frame mounts at the moment)

GREAT news Keith. Considering the work you did on the PCK, I have absolute confidence in fitment.

Do you have any posts or anywhere to follow progress on this or what you are doing with geometry and how you are managing some of the integration issues?

I'm hoping your kit is available for just the mounting hardware, I usually prefer to make my own arms.

 

[jkeith.w]

GREAT news Keith. Considering the work you did on the PCK, I have absolute confidence in fitment.

Do you have any posts or anywhere to follow progress on this or what you are doing with geometry and how you are managing some of the integration issues?

I'm hoping your kit is available for just the mounting hardware, I usually prefer to make my own arms.

Thanks man! It'll be as spare as possible (my kit) - but the upper links are bent to clear the round frame tube that the factory uppers mount to, so those will need to be included, I think. Everything should self-locate for easy accurate installation, like I hope the rest of my stuff is.

After I get ahead of some website stuff, I'll post progress updates on my blog at eimkeith.com . In the interim, I've been posting photos of stuff I'm doing on IG also.

I set the geometry for 33/35s, Tyler is giving it a critical eye to see if it works for his upcoming 37s... (we'll see!)

 

[DaMonkey]

... the upper links are bent to clear the round frame tube that the factory uppers mount to, ...

So you're the one.... lol. That's a great idea. Does a bent arm mean no sphere joints on uppers? Do you need bushings to keep the bend clocked?

Super happy to see this come together. Your last progress thread was a great read. I'll check out IG.

... Everything should self-locate for easy accurate installation, like I hope the rest of my stuff is.
...

What you did with the PCK was art. Your attention to detail on that was very clear. Keep doing what your doing. And please share plenty of pics

 

[jkeith.w]

So you're the one.... lol. That's a great idea. Does a bent arm mean no sphere joints on uppers? Do you need bushings to keep the bend clocked?

Metalcloak Joints on both ends, but I'm thinking welded joint housings on the frame end for that reason.

 

[DaMonkey]

Metalcloak Joints on both ends, but I'm thinking welded joint housings on the frame end for that reason.

There are Jeep guys running those joints for that exact reason. In fact I think that joint was created out of that crowd.

I really like the concept of them. You've prob seen [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] made a set to fit in stock location, but he had one fail. They replaced it no prob on warranty. His might have failed because he only ran one upper to help with articulation and I think that might have been stressing it. But I also find it interesting the Duraflex did not give enough articulation, and I would imagine triangulated links would require more articulation than our stock arrangement?

Maybe there are Jeep guys that have put a lot of miles on them and beat up on them too and they are standing up well. They might be great.

However, I'm a big believer in Ballistic Fab joints. It's actually the sphere part (articulation) that I believe in, but Ballistic did a nice job solving that. Maybe Metalcloak did too, but I've never tried them. Yet

My mind has kicked around some ideas how to solve the flopping bent arm and using spheres.

Here's AssBurns comment he shared with me on why he removed one upper using that joint:

- The reason I only used one upper link is because I having a 4 bar + panhard setup doesn’t have the smooth range of motion that a traditional 3-link + panhard does. So by removing the drivers side upper, it is basically a bind free movement until the upper links themselves get to too far of an angle to keep drooping. When I had both upper links connected, my axle wouldn’t drop all the way down on the drivers side because of the way the panhard swings the axle to the side, causing the drivers side upper link to bind. Flexing doesn’t really have this issue though. Only had this issue when under full droop.

 

[Jaysen4runner]

I'm working up a kit (dual triangulated 4-link) to use with a 1" body lift. Still in the modeling phase, though (working the frame mounts at the moment)

Eimkeith, how about the guys like me who are against BL! Many reasons behind BL, I like to keep my 4runner low center gravity as possibly on 315s (35s). Will there be a kit to fit without BL?

 

[jkeith.w]

His might have failed because he only ran one upper to help with articulation and I think that might have been stressing it. But I also find it interesting the Duraflex did not give enough articulation, and I would imagine triangulated links would require more articulation than our stock arrangement?

The stock link mounts do not have enough room (length or width) for the Duraflex joints to articulate fully. I can shoot some photos later today to illustrate that. The 4 link certainly requires more articulation than the stock arrangement; but the Duraflex joints allow for that.

Here’s the upper joint; the factory mount is almost wide enough to allow it to flex, but way too shallow. Without clearancing/removing the rear wall, any flex just stretches & eventually tears the rubber center of the joint.

And here’s the lower; the factory mount is almost deep enough (needs to be clearanced, as above) but it is really 6mm too narrow to make full use of the joint. - which may not matter with the stock setup, possibly..

Interesting tidbit: I realized mid-way through drawing the upper link tower that the joints actually need a 3mm spacer on either side to realize their full range of travel...!

 

[jkeith.w]

There are Jeep guys running those joints for that exact reason. In fact I think that joint was created out of that crowd.

I really like the concept of them. You've prob seen [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] made a set to fit in stock location, . . . he only ran one upper to help with articulation . . .

Here's AssBurns comment he shared with me on why he removed one upper using that joint:

He's absolutely right (he convinced me to try it) - the driver's upper link binds against panhard arc and causes a weird axle travel arc..

 

[jkeith.w]

Eimkeith, how about the guys like me who are against BL! Many reasons behind BL, I like to keep my 4runner low center gravity as possibly on 315s (35s). Will there be a kit to fit without BL?

Maybe - I'm not seeing great geometry without the tower height; I've got an alternate tower design that is shorter, but there are some compromises - especially for 35s.

Or you can make a box in the cabin floor like [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] did, and run the taller tower...?

 

[Jaysen4runner]

Maybe - I'm not seeing great geometry without the tower height; I've got an alternate tower design that is shorter, but there are some compromises - especially for 35s.

Or you can make a box in the cabin floor like [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] did, and run the taller tower...?

I was thinking about running rear coil-over, if I was going to change the geometry. That being bought up, I haven't got the number on the coil-over yet. Something like the JKs rear setup!

 

[AssBurns]

So much I want to say in this thread, but too busy to gather all my thoughts.

To the OP, like I told you before and like others are telling you here. Don't waste your time with trying to triangulate the uppers. You'll still have terrible geometry. A good 3-link + panhard is much better than a shitty 4-link. Just fix your panhard issue, and save your time and money for a solid 3-link or triangulated 4-link.

To someones comment about the upper link flopping around due to it having a bend. I think that as long as the bend is down, then gravity and tight bushings should solve this issue on its own. MetalCloaks DuroFlex joints are self centering, so it'll keep it in the right direction on it's own. Ballistic Joints are nice, but they don't self center. I don't think that's an issue really though.

That's all I got time for. All this stuff is so exciting though! I love these types of topics

In the meantime, I'll be on idpor.com :gossip:

 

[TCMach]

Thanks man! It'll be as spare as possible (my kit) - but the upper links are bent to clear the round frame tube that the factory uppers mount to, so those will need to be included, I think. Everything should self-locate for easy accurate installation, like I hope the rest of my stuff is.

After I get ahead of some website stuff, I'll post progress updates on my blog at eimkeith.com . In the interim, I've been posting photos of stuff I'm doing on IG also.

I set the geometry for 33/35s, Tyler is giving it a critical eye to see if it works for his upcoming 37s... (we'll see!)

You need somebody with 37s?....:naughty:

 

[jkeith.w]

A good 3-link + panhard is much better than a shitty 4-link.

hahaha; quoted for posterity.