4Runner alternator upgrade (gen 5)

[Jeffy]

I think you're right-on the nail Jeffy... we'll figure out exactly what's going on after some tests are done!

rig, cheers!

I think you're right about the higher resistance with dual batteries being the cause, and especially with one battery not being fully charged. This weekend I had my fridge in the car without much driving around and my aux battery dropped to 12.1 volts this morning because of that. When driving today, the alternator was putting out about 13.2-13.3 volts, versus the 13.5-13.6 it was putting out all last week. I'm going to disconnect the aux battery entirely and see what happens.

 

[J.F. Sebastian]

...but for a guy who 'CLAIMS' not to have studied (and Mastered) electrical theory...

Eric Dollard could build a wicked dual battery setup...

 

[rigtec]

Eric Dollard could build a wicked dual battery setup...

...who's Eric Dollard J.F.?

 

[deekoi]

Thanks, I haven't redone my grounding yet but it's on my to do list. I have a long list...

I'm a DIY guy and don't know what I'm doing. :behindsofa:. So all I know is what I search on Google and this forum, which has come up a few times that it should be 13.7-14.7. After driving around a bit more and on a few 1 hour drives, it's consistently at 13.3 and dips once in a while. Startup +5 mins fluctuates the most ranging from 13.0 to 13.8. When I stop the engine, most of the time it's around 13.8/13.9, which i'm happy about, except the other day it was at 13.5, not sure what happened there but I'll try to figure it out.

I don't know if something is wrong, so I look to my fellow 4runners for advise in hopes to prevent failure of any other parts. Just looking to see what troubleshooting I can do to give my a piece of mind. I don't mind charging up every so often but would like to know since this alternator is a pretty penny. Could have gotten a standard alternator and charge up routinely if that was the case.

I'll update back once I re-do my grounding and reach out to nations starter and alternator.

Thanks!

 

[rigtec]

...This post is for [MENTION=119582]Jeffy[/MENTION] , [MENTION=58658]deekoi[/MENTION] , and all others who would like to see the DC POWER Engineering 270XP performance spec sheet for a reference. I've added pointing markers at the Idle RPM: Voltage and Amperage output Design specs: "see below"

The scribbled lettering on the right side of the cut sheet says: (15.33V refers to) Voltage set-point BEFORE regulator management = 14.1. If you have any questions about this device, just post it and one of the members that are using the 270XP (or myself) will be glad to help you! 'Best to you',

rig

 

[J.F. Sebastian]

...who's Eric Dollard J.F.?

From being recruited by GE straight out of high school as a chief engineer with his own R&D lab to living on welfare in the desert out of the electric car he built from spare parts as a meth addict and alcoholic...

Thankfully he's had some big money and a lot of support behind him recently, there was a time when it appeared "the system" was actually trying to kill him, one of those rare geniuses.

If you're in the electrical engineering space and don't know who Eric Dollard is...

There is tons of stuff on him now that searches can render, his story is extraordinary.


Eric P. Dollard - Official Homepage - The only man who has replicated Tesla's wireless transmission technology.

 

[J.F. Sebastian]

By the way https://www.dcpowerinc.com/ is puking malware warnings in my browser, I hope they build alternators better than their web site.

There's a 320 amp offering from Quality Power too.

 

[rigtec]

If you're in the electrical engineering space and don't know who Eric Dollard is...

I made a comment to [MENTION=96008]Engineer[/MENTION] about his incredible understanding of Electrical Theory (which he takes absolutely 'ZERO' credit for), and you take that as an opportunity to go O.T. and boast about someone who has nothing to do with Toyota Tech-Support, or the trouble that a few of our 'loyal' members here are having with their trucks... which I take very seriously, and are the reason why I do my homework when not online...

Dude... that's the kinda stuff that you MAY get away with over on 'Instagram, or Twitter'; because their members would be seriously impressed with your smug, condesending comments over there...

rig, cheers

 

[J.F. Sebastian]

I made a comment to [MENTION=96008]Engineer[/MENTION] about his incredible understanding of Electrical Theory (which he takes absolutely 'ZERO' credit for), and you take that as an opportunity to go O.T. and boast about someone who has nothing to do with Toyota Tech-Support, or the trouble that a few of our 'loyal' members here are having with their trucks... which I take very seriously, and are the reason why I do my homework when not online...

Dude... that's the kinda stuff that you MAY get away with over on 'Instagram, or Twitter'; because their members would be seriously impressed with your smug, condesending comments over there...

rig, cheers

Uh, wasn't trying to be smug, condescending or a wise guy. You guys are into things electrical so thought you might find it interesting?

So, are you guys really that egomaniacal and offended by a simple reference to an electrical engineer on steroids? Is going somewhat off topic with a post usually dealt with in such a manner? Do you have some kind of problem with me specifically to ***** me out over a fairly innocuous post?

Dude, like dude, you dudedude.

So, the DC Power alternators are not living-up to the hype for that price?

 

[TerraCrawler]

Subbed this thread. I definitely need to do something with the power situation. I am running a dual battery setup, 2 100A AGM Group 31's. I will first try the alternator voltage booster, such as this one https://www.hkbelect.com/.

If that doesn't work then I either need to do the alternator upgrade, which sounds like $800+ with labor, or perhaps a DC-DC charger (RedArc or similar) would be a better way to go......but still, those are $1000 installed easy.

Really hoping the HKB swings me like .5-.7 more volts.......I think that would do it. I am charging at 13.0-13.2.......that doesn't cut it. I need at LEAST 13.7 and ideally I would like 14.2.

 

[jhguth]

you also need a higher output, not just a higher voltage, if you are running down those dual 100Ah batteries unless you are driving a ton

 

[rigtec]

Subbed this thread. I definitely need to do something with the power situation. I am running a dual battery setup, 2 100A AGM Group 31's. I will first try the alternator voltage booster, such as this one https://www.hkbelect.com/.

If that doesn't work then I either need to do the alternator upgrade, which sounds like $800+ with labor, or perhaps a DC-DC charger (RedArc or similar) would be a better way to go......but still, those are $1000 installed easy.

Really hoping the HKB swings me like .5-.7 more volts.......I think that would do it. I am charging at 13.0-13.2.......that doesn't cut it. I need at LEAST 13.7 and ideally I would like 14.2.

Hi TerraCrawler,

Based on your phrasing, you're still running the factory 130A alternator(?)! If you're running a 'Dual battery' configuration, then you MUST be using some add-on amenities e.g., fridge, winch, light-bars...etc.

Nothing wrong with that! If you just need more V, IR *(symbols for voltage and current/Amperage) at Idle, the task is cheap-N-simple:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...-more-current-your-stock-alternator-idle.html

...but time has proven that the factory (stock) alternators in our GEN-5 4Runners are designed to 'ATTEMPT', to lower our vehicle's 'very high by comparison' mpg ratings to keep up with the competition e.g., Hard rubber low friction tires, ultra thin fenders (to decrease body weight), V-6 instead of a strong V-8 like JGC, Nisson and Honda SUV's...etc!

You can calculate your add-on amps; just check the manuals that came with the accessories, add them all up at their PEAK operating performance nomenclature specs, then add the 100A factory electrical loads.

Now subtract your TOTAL calculated amperage from the stock alternator, (including the stock/factory electrical load); which is either 120 or 130A PEAK Output, which means the alternator is running very HOT if within 5 or 10% of it's full capacity... it won't last very long that way!

So if I'm guessing correctly, there's a DC Power 270XP on your truck's near future wish list lol! Let us know what you decide to do; if anything! 'Best tou you',

rig

 

[TerraCrawler]

[MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION]. The "Quality" brand 240A is $445, the 320A is $505. Why would I want your brand for $629? Just shopping and want to know, thanks for the help.

Brian

 

[rigtec]

[MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION]. The "Quality" brand 240A is $445, the 320A is $505. Why would I want your brand for $629? Just shopping and want to know, thanks for the help.

Brian

Hey Brian,

...I'm all about getting the most from my dollar! Could you post up a web-link of the products that you've mentioned? I just want to see the 240A or 320A End-frames (which are Heat-sinks), Stator design, type and number of cooling fans, 3 or 6 phase configuration...etc!

I haven't been introduced to these alternators as of yet, but I'm 'ALWAYS' looking for opportunities to learn more; 'tis a BIG part of my O.C.D predisposition disfunctionality lol! Thanks Brian,

rig, Cheers!

 

[TerraCrawler]

Hey Brian,

...I'm all about getting the most from my dollar! Could you post up a web-link of the products that you've mentioned? I just want to see the 240A or 320A End-frames (which are Heat-sinks), Stator design, type and number of cooling fans, 3 or 6 phase configuration...etc!

I haven't been introduced to these alternators as of yet, but I'm 'ALWAYS' looking for opportunities to learn more; 'tis a BIG part of my O.C.D predisposition disfunctionality lol! Thanks Brian,

rig, Cheers!

Here you go, I don't know much about them.

Toyota 4Runner High Output Alternators

 

[rayofsi]

any difference between 2016 and 2017. in terms of alternators?

 

[rigtec]

any difference between 2016 and 2017. in terms of alternators?

Hi rayofsi,

I believe the '16 and '17 4Runners are exactly the same; call 'Nations Starter and Alternators: Nations Starter & High Amp Alternator- Best Quality Starter & Alternator Supply!

For the EXACT model numbers... you won't see any of the GEN-5 4Runners in their catalogs; they've neglected to update their data, but they do make them, just ask for Adam!

I learned from [MENTION=144561]DCPower_Anthony[/MENTION] , during our last 270XP Group Buy... (Courtesy of [MENTION=55815]Okki[/MENTION] ), that Toyota has gone from the 'Four pin' operation design, over to the 'Single pin' Digital control operation design alternator now! 'Best to you',

rig

 

[DCPower_Anthony]

Here you go, I don't know much about them.

Toyota 4Runner High Output Alternators

So what you're getting there is a small case application. Meaning that the alternator has been re-wound for higher output. When you rewind small case alternators you may get the output at higher RPMs but you'll end up suffering at idle. Meaning that when you come to a stop the alternator will fall flat on its' face and drop below 13 volts. A lot of companies that I've seen that offer those use after market parts in those as well which have a higher chance of failing over time. Also they'll use a much smaller pulley to compensate for the loss of output at idle.

 

[DCPower_Anthony]

any difference between 2016 and 2017. in terms of alternators?

They're the same, bolt up and plug in just the same!

 

[rigtec]

Here you go, I don't know much about them.

Toyota 4Runner High Output Alternators

Hi TerraCrawler,

Thanks for the data sheet; it's very revealing. I don't wanna be discouraging or anything like that, but it looks like they used the 'Small Case Hairpin' End-frame that is used in the stock Toyota alternator, and 'Over-Stuffed' the case with more copper stator windings to 'BOOST' the output... >>> Reference>>> https://www.dcpowerinc.com/info/xp-hp-series-high-output-alternators.html "See image comparison below"

A lot of High Output alternator builders are doing that to create the BIG numbers. Problem is... the small case hair-pin design has all it can do to displace/reject the High Heatload of the 130A stator as it is. But Increasing it's output comes with a price... No Free Lunches here!

That's why I chose the DC Power Engineering 270XP design! It features a 'Large case Hair-pin' design, twin cooling fans (1 Front, 1 rear), not 6, but 12 pressed 50A diodes in it's casting, and it utilizes the 6-phase design for the highest efficiency possible, and to keep it ultra quiet!

I'm only telling you this, not to go negative or to be discouraging, but to give you the opportunity to decide how you wanna spend your hard-earned-cash; based on the facts and the true differences between a 270A unit that will generate 200A at idle, or a 320A unit that will develop maybe 100A at idle!

'Best to you and yours TerraCrawler',

rig