03_4x4Runner
Senior Member
2014 Four Wheeler of the Year - Four Wheeler Magazine Bad enough the Grand Cherokee beat the 4runner but even the new Cherokee is ahead of the 4runner. Please Toyota give us a transmission with more than 5 gears!
4runner looses to Grand Cherokee again
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KCcarguy
New member
It could have 3 speeds as far as I'm concerned. I'll always choose Toyota because owning a SUV that is too fragile/ high-tech/ unreliable to be used as an actual utility vehicle is pointless.
These reviewers will mention every time that the Toyota is more rugged and more capable off road. They are totally missing the mark with their reviews. They need to consider the design goal of the vehicle, not just which one feels nicer to drive to the grocery store or which gets better MPGs.
These reviewers will mention every time that the Toyota is more rugged and more capable off road. They are totally missing the mark with their reviews. They need to consider the design goal of the vehicle, not just which one feels nicer to drive to the grocery store or which gets better MPGs.
USMCRUNNER
New member
Those test are total BS. I'll take my Runner any day.
mikebontoft
New member
except that seems to be the majority target market.
STX4Runner
New member
I think too often these contests favor vehicles that have all the latest whiz bangs and gadgets while the 4Runner gets left behind be cause it doesn't have these things...which is fine with me. I think these mags need two contests; Real 4Wheeler of the year and 4x4 crossover that rides like a car, has no approach angle, has tires with no sidewalls because its riding on 20s to appeal to urban buyers and will never be taken off road because it costs $$$ of the year. The first category would likely include the 4Runner Trail, Rubicon, Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Power Wagon and XTerra. The latter would be the various Jeeps, LandCruiser (sad to say), Land Rovers, etc. I know I am seriously biased, but I love every aspect of my 2010 Trail. The simplicity of it and lack of gadgets like adjustable air suspension, auto headlights, auto wipers, auto 4x4 etc. is great. And I love the interior, I actually feel like I am in a real 4x4, but its just refined enough.
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Limbwalker
New member
Its hard to believe with all the new features. Oh well... it wouldnt be as cool if EVERYONE owned one. And when someone's 2014 GC breaks down for the first time in front of me, Ill be there in my perfect running 01 with a tow strap ready
Antman
Elite Member
You beat me to it Greg! Don't think for a minute that the advertising isn't a huge factor in their decision making process. In the end the magazine is still a business, and money talks.
4Runner owners know they made the right choice. The others will live with their mistakes right up to the point when they lose their ass at trade-in time..
soul_survival
New member
will not buy a chrysler again...
---a former owner of 2 jeeps
---a former owner of 2 jeeps
"looses" ??
Thank God the T4R didn't lose to the Jeep. :nono:
I just bought a new 5th Gen to replace the 4th Gen we've had since 2009. The 4th Gen worked extremely well, especially while operating the 4X4 features. While the new one is not radically different, that's good thing since the T4R is already near the pinnacle when it comes to going off the pavement. The main changes were in height and interior room which was just what I was looking for.
My wife wants a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. We test drove one and it looked and drove beautifully. That's not a surprise since it's more of less a knockoff of the M Class Mercedes, and was the last SUV designed when Chrysler was still owned by Diamler Benz. The new Cherokee is vastly superior and advanced over the Cherokee Limited we have about ten years ago. That vehicle had the old straight 6 that couldn't get out of it's way going uphill.
As to which is better why is this even a question?? One is a body on frame vehicle that can do some serious off roading as is, or modified to go virtually anywhere another 4X4 can. The other is a beautiful mall crawler full of tech stuff that would be a mistake to depend on in the bush or back roads of the boonies.
I'll show my age and refer to an old saying "different strokes for different strokes." I go off road where it could be a several mile hike out if you have a problem (which we've done before). My wife might drive over a speed bump too hard and have to call the Auto Club to bail her out.
How those two wildly disparate uses could possibly be put in the same category and labeled as comparable is beyond me.
1. Did the T4R really lose to the Jeep?
2. Or was the test used nonsensical as to the real purpose the Runner was designed for?
My vote is for item #2.
Thank God the T4R didn't lose to the Jeep. :nono:
I just bought a new 5th Gen to replace the 4th Gen we've had since 2009. The 4th Gen worked extremely well, especially while operating the 4X4 features. While the new one is not radically different, that's good thing since the T4R is already near the pinnacle when it comes to going off the pavement. The main changes were in height and interior room which was just what I was looking for.
My wife wants a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. We test drove one and it looked and drove beautifully. That's not a surprise since it's more of less a knockoff of the M Class Mercedes, and was the last SUV designed when Chrysler was still owned by Diamler Benz. The new Cherokee is vastly superior and advanced over the Cherokee Limited we have about ten years ago. That vehicle had the old straight 6 that couldn't get out of it's way going uphill.
As to which is better why is this even a question?? One is a body on frame vehicle that can do some serious off roading as is, or modified to go virtually anywhere another 4X4 can. The other is a beautiful mall crawler full of tech stuff that would be a mistake to depend on in the bush or back roads of the boonies.
I'll show my age and refer to an old saying "different strokes for different strokes." I go off road where it could be a several mile hike out if you have a problem (which we've done before). My wife might drive over a speed bump too hard and have to call the Auto Club to bail her out.
How those two wildly disparate uses could possibly be put in the same category and labeled as comparable is beyond me.
1. Did the T4R really lose to the Jeep?
2. Or was the test used nonsensical as to the real purpose the Runner was designed for?
My vote is for item #2.
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Youngerarlaw
New member
I know that the title is 4wd of the year but it appears a number if the other test rigs were Limiteds....
03_4x4Runner
Senior Member
Hardly a sales race. Three times more Grand Cherokees are sold than 4runners 50k a year.
Year Jeep Grand Cherokee
U.S. Sales Jeep Grand Cherokee
Canadian Sales
1999 300,031 n/a
2000 271,723 n/a
2001 223,612 n/a
2002 224,233 n/a
2003 207,479 n/a
2004 182,313 7454
2005 213,584 9166
2006 139,148 7075
2007 120,937 8078
2008 73,678 7617
2009 50,328 5285
2010 84,635 7255
2011 127,744 10,283
2012 154,734 10,416
2013 YTD * 157,758 10,705
03 it would have been a sales race in 4th Gen days. Except for 2009, the 4th Gen was extremely popular and seen everywhere. For some reason Toyota barely promoted the 5th Gen roll out, and I think they assumed the T4R popularity would just roll over into the new design.
Inexplicably they never tried to turn the tide until now, when we're seeing a flood of publicity and ads for the newly designed 5th Gen. I wish them well, because the T4R 5th Gen may well be one of the most underrated vehicles of our time.
If we're talking exclusively SUV's it may be THE most underrated vehicle.
4th generation for 5th
This week I am trading my 08 v8 trail Edition for a 2014 limited. 118,000 miles and not one issue. The 08 is just showing its age so going for a new one. mistake? Hope not...In my 30 plus years of buying cars I have NEVER stayed with the same car until now. Reviewers are unreliable. T4R's are reliable beyond any that I have ever owned. A bit scary to trade what has been such a wonderful rig. Toyota now offers a 5 year 120,000 mile warranty for $2100, should I buy it? Probably will. Oh, NEVER, will I be seen driving a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler product. I was told that with Jeeps, the marketing people decide what technology goes in to new cars unlike Honda and Toyota wher the engineers make these decisions. Anyone confirm this or is it a myth? Cheers!
This week I am trading my 08 v8 trail Edition for a 2014 limited. 118,000 miles and not one issue. The 08 is just showing its age so going for a new one. mistake? Hope not...In my 30 plus years of buying cars I have NEVER stayed with the same car until now. Reviewers are unreliable. T4R's are reliable beyond any that I have ever owned. A bit scary to trade what has been such a wonderful rig. Toyota now offers a 5 year 120,000 mile warranty for $2100, should I buy it? Probably will. Oh, NEVER, will I be seen driving a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler product. I was told that with Jeeps, the marketing people decide what technology goes in to new cars unlike Honda and Toyota wher the engineers make these decisions. Anyone confirm this or is it a myth? Cheers!
Sounds like the person who told you that is reaching. Think about it for a minute. No car manufacturer would allow one department alone to make the sole decision on what technology goes into a car.
The marketing people might call for some bling thing that could adversely affect the very driving characteristics current owners like. While the engineers might want something that's too complicated to be appreciated, or so expensive it drives the vehicle beyond the targeted price point.
Like any business or government, you get expert opinions from every side. Then the decision makers try to modulate any conflicting wishes and requests into the best compromise to meet the price point and / or desired target audience.
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03_4x4Runner
Senior Member
4runner sales from Wikpedia.
Sales numbers[edit]
Calendar year
United States
2000 111,797[13]
2001 90,250[citation needed]
2002 77,026[14]
2003 109,308[citation needed]
2004 114,212[citation needed]
2005 103,830[citation needed]
2006 103,086[citation needed]
2007 87,718[citation needed]
2008 47,878[citation needed]
2009 19,675[15]
2010 46,531[15]
2011 44,316[16]
2012 48,755[16]
Sales numbers[edit]
Calendar year
United States
2000 111,797[13]
2001 90,250[citation needed]
2002 77,026[14]
2003 109,308[citation needed]
2004 114,212[citation needed]
2005 103,830[citation needed]
2006 103,086[citation needed]
2007 87,718[citation needed]
2008 47,878[citation needed]
2009 19,675[15]
2010 46,531[15]
2011 44,316[16]
2012 48,755[16]
Curt Sauve
New member
From the reviews that I've read, the Cherokee has to be going 80mph with a tailwind for it to shift into 9th gear.
1engineer
Moderator
Sorry guys you are both wrong. Here is how it works for all OEMs:
Marketing makes all decisions on product.
Engineering can and will over ride if technology is not ready.
Design has a say on exterior and interior.
Sales also has a lot of input.
This is a simplistic view but you get the point. Where the two companies are different is their business plan. Toyota makes the majority of profit on the initial sale. Hence their limited use of "big sales" "rebates" and special prices. Jeep offers the product up front with deep program discounts and makes their additional profit off of aftermarket and parts sales. Toyota has less tech but more reliability and that is what you pay for. Jeep has more tech with less reliability and again, that is what you pay for. If you want both look at the Land Cruiser and you will pay for both.
You guys can believe what you want and I welcome any debate but the above is the truth. You pay "X" and you get "X" either in tech or dependability. If you want both you have to pay about twicw what a 4Runner costs. It's simple.
