4runner looses to Grand Cherokee again

Big price difference too.....rover, please! Thought this was funny (also the noise comment on the grand chk's suspension)...; new Cherokee: On two occasions, after lengthy, spirited driving in the sand, the vehicle's information center told us that the 4x4 unit was overheated. This caused the unit to be unshiftable, though drivable. After it cooled, the shift function resumed and the situation did not repeat itself during testing. The compression braking on the vehicle was weak, causing it to gain too much forward momentum on steep hill descents. Judges used the hill descent control to compensate. Numerous judges did note that the rear end wanted to "step out," especially on high-speed whoops. One judge wrote, "Doesn't take much to get the rear end to step out on- and off-road. If you're expecting it, that's great. If not, it can be a little unnerving."


Typical Chrysler product.....this car or dodge dart was delayed due to transmission issues.
 
I'll stick with 4Runner. Have driven mine in Interstates, country roads, S/W Colorado Trails, and with 30K miles in first year, it's absolutely the best vehicle of any kind I have ever owned.

:humble:

:usa2:
 
1engineer said:
Sorry guys you are both wrong. Here is how it works for all OEMs:
Marketing makes all decisions on product.
Engineering can and will over ride if technology is not ready.
Design has a say on exterior and interior.
Sales also has a lot of input.

This is a simplistic view but you get the point.
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It's simplistic in that it acts as if the executives who run the company and have the ultimate decision making power don't exist. In addition the format offered above is like a feudal system where each Lord of the Manor acts with a complete disregard for what the neighboring group is doing or needs.

I was in the auto business, the idea that departments are autonomous with sole authority for certain decisions, and the entire company operates bottom up sans any decisions on the part of the top executives doesn't even make sense.
 
Sundog7121 said:
I'll stick with 4Runner. Have driven mine in Interstates, country roads, S/W Colorado Trails, and with 30K miles in first year
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30K miles? Wow, that's impressive. Was that highways, country roads, trails, and every square inch of the state? :lookout::lookout::lookout:
 
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Maz said:
It's simplistic in that it acts as if the executives who run the company and have the ultimate decision making power don't exist. In addition the format offered above is like a feudal system where each Lord of the Manor acts with a complete disregard for what the neighboring group is doing or needs.

I was in the auto business, the idea that departments are autonomous with sole authority for certain decisions, and the entire company operates bottom up sans any decisions on the part of the top executives doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

Dude I made it simple for clarity. Of course management makes the decisions but the groups who have the responsibility is what I listed above. I will use a gantt chart next time. The big difference is the business model.
 
Ramzey28 said:
Big price difference too.....rover, please! Thought this was funny (also the noise comment on the grand chk's suspension)...; new Cherokee: On two occasions, after lengthy, spirited driving in the sand, the vehicle's information center told us that the 4x4 unit was overheated. This caused the unit to be unshiftable, though drivable. After it cooled, the shift function resumed and the situation did not repeat itself during testing. The compression braking on the vehicle was weak, causing it to gain too much forward momentum on steep hill descents. Judges used the hill descent control to compensate. Numerous judges did note that the rear end wanted to "step out," especially on high-speed whoops. One judge wrote, "Doesn't take much to get the rear end to step out on- and off-road. If you're expecting it, that's great. If not, it can be a little unnerving."


Typical Chrysler product.....this car or dodge dart was delayed due to transmission issues.
Click to expand...

I would not want a Cherokee but you have to understand this magazine beats the crap out of these vehicles way beyond want a normal person would do with a new vehicle. The new Cherokee is a modified front wheel drive platform that kick in the back wheels for 4x4. Unfortunately this is most likely the future of off road vehicles especially since 99% of the people do not do anything more off road than a graded fire road anyways.
Any trans would get hot doing this.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/vehicle-reviews/1402-2014-four-wheeler-of-the-year/photo-gallery/#33 and this http://www.fourwheeler.com/vehicle-reviews/1402-2014-four-wheeler-of-the-year/photo-gallery/#29
A stuck 4runner. I thought from this forum it could not happen. http://www.fourwheeler.com/vehicle-reviews/1402-2014-four-wheeler-of-the-year/photo-gallery/#28
 
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1engineer said:
Dude I made it simple for clarity. Of course management makes the decisions but the groups who have the responsibility is what I listed above.
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I'm sorry to appear argumentative but it doesn't take a Dude to note you wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------
Marketing makes all decisions on product.
Engineering can and will over ride if technology is not ready.
--------------------------------------------------------

Do departments at auto makers have areas of responsibilities? Of course. Does Marketing make all the product decisions with Engineering having a veto power if they don't think a technology is ready? No and more than once decision makers have pushed out a new design, only to later go into massive recall mode.

That being said I must commend engineer's superior explanation of the set price / high quality vs. discount and rebate / parts later business plan. Let me add the Europeans more of less pioneered that concept when they entered the US / Canadian market at a time where the Japanese auto industry was still developing after WWII

I still remember my Dad looking at what was then a very exotic MG convertible, while sputtering with confusion as the salesman kept repeating "that number on the window IS the price." The comedy was not all European cars held their own in the "pay the price to get the quality" bargain. Lucas electrical was called "The Prince of Darkness" because when it turned dark their parts often stopped working.

Likewise the Mercedes Benz cars of that era weren't so perfect. While they were more reliable than BMC, MB parts could be very fickle and they were insanely expensive to replace. A headlight unit would be designed in such a way that a crack from a shopping cart necessitated changing out the entire light system.

However they've solved all that, and talk about a marketing! Almost nobody actually buys a German car now. They lease it with all maintenance included for two or three years, they go pick up a new one. The trade in is leased again by someone else with a smaller budget. It's almost insidious!
 
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So, the new Cherokee gets the highest off road score of the bunch (even though it overheated, twice). I think I'll sell my T4R and get a new Cherokee to get that extra edge out on the trails.
 
Drove the new Range Rover off road at the Expo last year and was very impressed. It's rides like a caddy while taking everything I was driving over without a hiccup. Expensive and no clue how it will hold up in the long run but it was very nice.

The GC? I can see why it's so popular with the masses who may take a dirt road every now and then.
 
03_4x4Runner said:
I would not want a Cherokee but you have to understand this magazine beats the crap out of these vehicles way beyond want a normal person would do with a new vehicle. The new Cherokee is a modified front wheel drive platform that kick in the back wheels for 4x4. Unfortunately this is most likely the future of off road vehicles especially since 99% of the people do not do anything more off road than a graded fire road anyways.
Any trans would get hot doing this.
2014 Four Wheeler of the Year Photo & Image Gallery and this 2014 Four Wheeler of the Year Photo & Image Gallery
A stuck 4runner. I thought from this forum it could not happen. 2014 Four Wheeler of the Year Photo & Image Gallery
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So, you are not going to buy a Jeep? If you are not, did you start this just to get us going?
 
I do have to respond to stx regarding "LandCruiser (sad to say)". Definitely not true as it has all the same off road technology as the trail edition. All the cameras on the LC are for off road and seeing ur surroundings to articulate obstacles. Sure it has luxury but still built with the same solid rear and primary off road vehicle in most country's throughout the world. But it also gets snubbed by magazines as well. I would take my LC or 4R any day over all the other "winner" SUVs that hit the shelves.
 
Curt Sauve said:
So, you are not going to buy a Jeep? If you are not, did you start this just to get us going?
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I started the original thread to show the 4wheeler magazine article, the rest of my post are to just get you going. Also I do want a new 4runner. My 03 is still going strong, only problems are leaking transfer case and the speedometer quit working.
 
Intruder said:
Um, happens all the time. Don't think I recall anyone ever saying that a 4Runner can't get stuck. Nice try at a straw man.
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Intruder are you sure he wasn't being ironic or engaging in satire ? To be fair we have had an occasional person go overboard while swearing they never get stuck and / or every other rig at the mud hole was helpless and thank God for their T4R to pull everybody out.
 
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03_4x4Runner said:
I started the original thread to show the 4wheeler magazine article, the rest of my post are to just get you going. Also I do want a new 4runner. My 03 is still going strong, only problems are leaking transfer case and the speedometer quit working.
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Where's the love? It's the Holiday Season.
 
So the range rover is 100k with options. Someone needs to buy me one so I can compare to my 4runner. Easiest way to settle these discussions.
 
03_4x4Runner said:
Hardly a sales race. Three times more Grand Cherokees are sold than 4runners 50k a year.

Year Jeep Grand Cherokee
U.S. Sales Jeep Grand Cherokee
Canadian Sales
1999 300,031 n/a
2000 271,723 n/a
2001 223,612 n/a
2002 224,233 n/a
2003 207,479 n/a
2004 182,313 7454
2005 213,584 9166
2006 139,148 7075
2007 120,937 8078
2008 73,678 7617
2009 50,328 5285
2010 84,635 7255
2011 127,744 10,283
2012 154,734 10,416
2013 YTD * 157,758 10,705
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Yes, but in the US atleast half of the those Jeeps were sold to fleet companies like Enterprise or Hertz. Locally I see five or six gen 3-4 runners on the road for every Jeep I see. The fact in 5-7 years I will be able to get in the high teens for my used 4Runner while I would be lucky to get 10k for the Jeep is just one of the many reasons I'm getting a 4Runner.
 
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I saw two broken down jeeps during my 10 minute drive to school. They were both fairly new. One looked like a 2010 the other maybe a 08.
Toyotas reliability > jeeps reliability
I thought it was funny how my 2000 4runner hasn't broken down in years(previously due to a timing belt) when new jeeps are breaking down left & right.
 
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