4Runner Trail Purchase Pending..

Well I am by no means an expert on the 4Runner or the KDSS by far. But my understanding of it is that the system specifically disengages the sway bar to allow independent movement (elevation) of the wheels in an off road environment so that the vehicle doesn't create more body roll as much as it would if the sway bars were connected, hopefully resulting in more wheel contact with the terrain. If anything KDSS reduces "articulation" of the sway bar when active due to the system disengaging. I'm probably just reiterating what has been stated, in my own words though. Hopefully we're all on the same page...

To the original purpose of this thread though, obviously the KDSS is intended for off road use, and if there won't be much of it, or instances where it is used often, it's senseless to spend the extra money on a system you wont use. I mean, this isn't an aggressively driven on road vehicle so hopefully body roll isn't a huge concern. If body roll is a concern, lowering the center of gravity would be a better choice.
 
Since I thoroughly test drove both Trails with KDSS and without I can attest KDSS makes a big difference in on-road situations. There is no body roll whatsoever, I would like to see the difference between KDSS and non-KDSS during emergency/rollover maneuvers.
 
Appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments, especially those who have driven both and have offered first hand testimonials on how one drives vs. the other. Sounds like KDSS makes a significant difference both on and off road, which lines up with everything else I have read here previously.

Still haven't heard much about long term maintenence, but will probably just buy the 7yr./125K warranty from the Hutchison dealer and roll the dice beyond that point. Got a decent out of state quote (they still have to truck it in from wherever it is now) and working to see if a local dealer can find it and do the same with having it shipped here instead of having to drive my trade 800+ miles and drive the 4Runner back.
 
Texas777 said:
Appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments, especially those who have driven both and have offered first hand testimonials on how one drives vs. the other. Sounds like KDSS makes a significant difference both on and off road, which lines up with everything else I have read here previously.

Still haven't heard much about long term maintenence, but will probably just buy the 7yr./125K warranty from the Hutchison dealer and roll the dice beyond that point. Got a decent out of state quote (they still have to truck it in from wherever it is now) and working to see if a local dealer can find it and do the same with having it shipped here instead of having to drive my trade 800+ miles and drive the 4Runner back.
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where are you looking to truck it from? Did you catch my post about Stevenson auto groups life time warranty? If you're going out of state, it's worth it for a lifetime powertrain warranty... just my $.02
 
VoodooTitan said:
where are you looking to truck it from? Did you catch my post about Stevenson auto groups life time warranty? If you're going out of state, it's worth it for a lifetime powertrain warranty... just my $.02
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It is a dealer in CO. Appreciate your post about the lifetime warranty, but unfortunately, I didn't see a single Trail Premium listed on any of Stevenson's three locations in CO. According to my local dealer that wants to sell me the non-KDSS, its too late in the year to order a 2014 and "thee are no White Trail Premiums w/ KDSS left for sale in the U.S.". Find that hard to believe. I've requested a copy of the sticker from the CO dealer, so we'll see what he sends.
 
VoodooTitan said:
The KDSS is specifically designed for off-road use. There may be some instances where KDSS activates on-road but it will only be when wheel lift occurs or there is a change in the hydraulic pressure (severely uneven pavement). Otherwise KDSS is useless for you.
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It appears we have several misconceptions and urban myths in this thread. For example the above statement about KDSS only working off road is not the case at all. Just the opposite in fact, as many people who've driven with and without KDSS will tell it very much affects the on road drive.

Then another poster talked about the XREAS being the correct choice for a better on road experience. I've had both and can tell you that XREAS does enhance the turning experience on road, and helps reduce body roll. However KDSS is at least as good in that regard, IMHO actually better.

When I read the OP's original post about driving a Yukon and not liking body roll that really hit home. I had a Tahoe and loved the ride going straight, however the body roll and turning characteristics were just plain awful. I switched to a Porsche Cayenne S and found the difference startling (with a Tundra 4X4 for off road use).

From there I sold both the Porsche and Tundra and went to a 4th Gen Sport Edition with XREAS. While it wasn't a Porsche, at less than half the price it was better than half the driving experience. Not to mention way more agile than the Tundra off road.

Finally after missing the roominess of the Tahoe and Tundra, I switched to the 5th Gen Trail. It's got room inside and is even more capable off road the the Sport Edition. Moreover with the KDSS there is little to no body roll on road, and turning is equal to the lower stance 4th Gen with XREAS.

Based on the OP's need / desire for a good on road driving characteristics while having a very capable occasional off road rig, the Trail with KDSS is a natural fit. Moreover I can't imagine why it would ever need (other than tires of course) to be modified.

Good luck on your search, it appears you've got your wish list well defined and headed the right direction. I would add it's much better to get an option you end up not getting a lot of use out of, than spend the life of your ownership unhappy with you opted out.
 
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Texas777 said:
It is a dealer in CO. Appreciate your post about the lifetime warranty, but unfortunately, I didn't see a single Trail Premium listed on any of Stevenson's three locations in CO. According to my local dealer that wants to sell me the non-KDSS, its too late in the year to order a 2014 and "thee are no White Trail Premiums w/ KDSS left for sale in the U.S.". Find that hard to believe. I've requested a copy of the sticker from the CO dealer, so we'll see what he sends.
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Well good luck, I did a search on USAA car buying service to see if there was anything. I got a hit for a white 2014 Trail Premium for $38K in the Houston area but it wouldn't give me the dealer listing, and I'm not exactly sure if it color matches. So, hopefully there is one out there for you.
 
Thanks for the search VooDoo. I've negotiated a deal for a reasonably well optioned White Trail Premium with a Houston area dealer, and there is one located about an hour outside of Houston as well, which is probably the one you located at the sticker is ~$38K. No KDSS on either since we don't get them here thanks to the stooges at Gulf States Toyota that run our region, and I'm finding it's next to impossible to find one in White with KDSS out of state. Many are available in Silver and Gray, but 7 of my last 8 vehicles have been one of those two colors so I'm really working toward White this time. The CO dealer has gone underground, so I'm thinking he was full of it about the one he said he found, just to buy himself some time to search. The local dealer on the non-KDSS has been better to work with than most. Availability may end up making this decision for me. I'd order one if you could, but I'm told its too late in the year to order a 2014 and too early to order a 2015? Strange.

I love Toyota vehicles, but having bought 15+ cars over the past 30 years, I've never experienced a more difficult process than this one. I typically go through Internet Managers to cut through the crap and get to the bottom line in short order. Some Toyota "internet" salespeople have been bold enough to openly state "we reserve our best pricing for those who come in and test drive a vehicle, and won't provide our best price otherwise". Kind of hard to do that out of state, dont ya think? Needless to say, they were off the list immediately. What happended to doing business the way the customer prefers and not push your sales model on them? People are busy these days, and not all want to go through the BS of going into the dealership, experiencing the back and forth of the salespople to their managers, and burn 4+ hours getting the deal completed before they drive away with a new vehicle. I find it odd that a Japanese company doesn't embrace modern technology to a greater degree and make it easier to buy via internet salespeople. :shrug: OK, rant over!
 
Man, it's a good thing some of you guys don't have to read for comprehension as a job otherwise you would be selling pencils out of a cup next to a shoe store lol. [MENTION=47936]Maz[/MENTION] and a few others are right on. For those of you who have not got it understood yet let me put it into bullet points for those slow guys:

1. KDSS is operative all the time without any switch as long as the vehicle is moving. On road or off, rain or shine, cold or hot. Got it?
2. You have MORE articulation off road with KDSS than either XREAS or conventional suspension. Search youtube for lots of videos of RTI scores and actual offroad footage. Not much more but more nonetheless.
3. XREAS is great on road and works on different, but effective principles than KDSS. Off road? Not as good as KDSS but still more trail worthy than 90% of other vehicles.
4. The only time KDSS or XREAS is "a waste of money" is if you plan on building a purpose built vehicle with aftermarket suspension like King or Icon. Even then KDSS could complement your suspension choices. Only when you decide to remove the sway bars does KDSS become irrelevant.
5. KDSS and XREAS systems were designed to give the driver the best possible suspension in a variety of operating conditions, with XREAS weighted for on road and KDSS weighted favorably for off road. Any aftermarket suspension choices that would replace those would be stronger in one arena (high speed off road for example) but weaker in other areas. Could you build a better "compromise" suspension system than either KDSS or XREAS? Absolutely. For under $2K? No way. I have read most suspension mods here in the last several years and so far nobody has built one that is superior to KDSS or XREAS for their intended uses, that is majority of the time being on road and a small percentage of time off road. It could be done but we are talking five figures for that little mod lol and that would not include tires, wheels, etc.
6. Realize that, even here in an enthusiast's forum, most people mod for looks primary, performance secondary. A few have modded strictly for performance and damn the looks and reading their build thread are very impressive. Every single one of them though have increased their off road performance and road performance has been an afterthought. They are impressive builds though.
7. No matter how good you think you are you are not smarter nor better nor do you have more resources than a team of Toyota engineers. Remember that while you are cutting and replacing crap.
 
Thanks Harkco. Looks like about 4 of those are Trail Premiums w/KDSS. Would buy from an out of state dealer and truck it in if I didnt have a trade. Will see if I can get a local dealer to check into trying to get one of those dealerships in CA or WA to let theirs go, so I can trade my truck in on it locally. Would have driven to CO to trade it in, but not driving to WA state or CA to get it done. Not enough time to burn for that drive.
 
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I was in a similar situation with my trade in. I ended up selling it on Craig's List, but the dealer I bought my new 4Runner from in Arizona actually offered to take my trade in - they were just going to load it up on the freight truck that delivered my new vehicle.

Just a thought - where there is a will there is a way. Regardless, good luck on your new purchase. I hope you get the vehicle you ultimately want.
 
Texas777 said:
Thanks Harkco. Looks like about 4 of those are Trail Premiums w/KDSS. Would buy from an out of state dealer and truck it in if I didnt have a trade. Will see if I can get a local dealer to check into trying to get one of those dealerships in CA or WA to let theirs go, so I can trade my truck in on it locally. Would have driven to CO to trade it in, but not driving to WA state or CA to get it done. Not enough time to burn for that drive.
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Texas no disrespect intended, but is there some reason you couldn't just sell your own truck and then buy what you want where you want?

You'll self sell for at least the trade in value at a dealer, and quickly if you're aggressively priced on the low side. In addition your bargaining power on the new rig is exponentially improved if you just negotiating on one known value item.

You have a fellow Texan [MENTION=68216]jhoss[/MENTION] who bought a Trail with KDSS in San Diego last November I believe. Hopefully he can add to your body of knowledge on an out of state purchase potential.
 
Texas777 said:
Thanks Harkco. Looks like about 4 of those are Trail Premiums w/KDSS. Would buy from an out of state dealer and truck it in if I didnt have a trade. Will see if I can get a local dealer to check into trying to get one of those dealerships in CA or WA to let theirs go, so I can trade my truck in on it locally. Would have driven to CO to trade it in, but not driving to WA state or CA to get it done. Not enough time to burn for that drive.
Click to expand...

Texas no disrespect intended, but is there some reason you couldn't just sell your own truck and then buy what you want...where you want?

You'll self sell for at least the dealer trade in value, and quickly if you're aggressively priced on the low side. Which you can be since you don't have the dealer's reconditioning / commissions / paperwork costs. In addition your bargaining power on the new rig is exponentially improved if you just negotiating on one item at a time (with a known base value to boot.)

You have a fellow Texan [MENTION=68216]jhoss[/MENTION] who bought a Trail with KDSS in San Diego last November I believe. Hopefully he can add to your body of knowledge on an out of state purchase potential. Obviously you want what you want, and you're chances of getting that dramatically improved by taking the trade out of the mix.
 
Maz said:
Texas no disrespect intended, but is there some reason you couldn't just sell your own truck and then buy what you want where you want?

You'll self sell for at least the trade in value at a dealer, and quickly if you're aggressively priced on the low side. In addition your bargaining power on the new rig is exponentially improved if you just negotiating on one known value item.

You have a fellow Texan [MENTION=68216]jhoss[/MENTION] who bought a Trail with KDSS in San Diego last November I believe. Hopefully he can add to your body of knowledge on an out of state purchase potential.
Click to expand...

The main reason is the Texas vehicle sales tax savings of 6.25% on ~$37,000trade value applied to new vehicle purchase. I may be able to offset some or all of this amount in selling outright but I'm not sure I have the time to do it. Work, kids, and business travel keep me on the run like everyone else.
 
Texas777 said:
The main reason is the Texas vehicle sales tax savings of 6.25% on ~$37,000trade value applied to new vehicle purchase. I may be able to offset some or all of this amount in selling outright but I'm not sure I have the time to do it. Work, kids, and business travel keep me on the run like everyone else.
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I'm not following. Are you saying you think you're current vehicle would trade for more or less $37,000. Then Texas law stipulates you pay the 6.25% tax only on the difference between a trade in value and purchase price?
 
Maz said:
I'm not following. Are you saying you think you're current vehicle would trade for more or less $37,000. Then Texas law stipulates you pay the 6.25% tax only on the difference between a trade in value and purchase price?
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Correct, I'm saving $2312.50 in taxes by trading. Basically if I buy the non-KDSS here at $37,500, trade at the dealer offered $37,000 for my truck, I'm paying $31.25 in taxes, vs. $2343.75 if I don't trade the truck in on it. Add truck freight to the taxes get the 4Runner here if I don't trade a vehicle in and the KDSS option gets pretty expensive, pretty quickly! This is why I have such disdain for Gulf States Toyota in ordering ZERO KDSS equipped 4Runners for dealer stock.
 
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Texas777 said:
Correct, I'm saving $2312.50 in taxes by trading. Basically if I buy the non-KDSS here at $37,500, trade at the dealer offered $37,000 for my truck, I'm paying $31.25 in taxes, vs. $2343.75 if I don't trade the truck in on it. Add truck freight to the taxes get the 4Runner here if I don't trade a vehicle in and the KDSS option gets pretty expensive, pretty quickly! This is why I have such disdain for Gulf States Toyota in ordering ZERO KDSS equipped 4Runners for dealer stock.
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WV is the same. A bad trade is as good as a good sell in a lot of cases.
 
Texas777 said:
Thanks for the search VooDoo. I've negotiated a deal for a reasonably well optioned White Trail Premium with a Houston area dealer, and there is one located about an hour outside of Houston as well, which is probably the one you located at the sticker is ~$38K. No KDSS on either since we don't get them here thanks to the stooges at Gulf States Toyota that run our region, and I'm finding it's next to impossible to find one in White with KDSS out of state. Many are available in Silver and Gray, but 7 of my last 8 vehicles have been one of those two colors so I'm really working toward White this time. The CO dealer has gone underground, so I'm thinking he was full of it about the one he said he found, just to buy himself some time to search. The local dealer on the non-KDSS has been better to work with than most. Availability may end up making this decision for me. I'd order one if you could, but I'm told its too late in the year to order a 2014 and too early to order a 2015? Strange.
Click to expand...
Texas777 said:
I love Toyota vehicles, but having bought 15+ cars over the past 30 years, I've never experienced a more difficult process than this one. I typically go through Internet Managers to cut through the crap and get to the bottom line in short order. Some Toyota "internet" salespeople have been bold enough to openly state "we reserve our best pricing for those who come in and test drive a vehicle, and won't provide our best price otherwise". Kind of hard to do that out of state, dont ya think? Needless to say, they were off the list immediately. What happended to doing business the way the customer prefers and not push your sales model on them? People are busy these days, and not all want to go through the BS of going into the dealership, experiencing the back and forth of the salespople to their managers, and burn 4+ hours getting the deal completed before they drive away with a new vehicle. I find it odd that a Japanese company doesn't embrace modern technology to a greater degree and make it easier to buy via internet salespeople. :shrug: OK, rant over!
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its the dealer not wanting to order, see below :




Code: 
[SIZE=1]MY14 Order Dates:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]June 3, 2013 - May 12, 2014[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=1]MY15 Order Dates:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]June 1, 2014 - May 11, 2015[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]Pricing Available: August 16, 2014[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=1]H1 - Commercial: Available[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]H2 - Livery: Available[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]H5 - Licensee: Available[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]H7 - Government: Available[/SIZE]

Code: 
PRODUCTION ORDERS DELIVERY WINDOWS 
Final Monthly          Delivery Window
Submission Date        Production Orders 
 
July 10, 2014          11/01/14 to 11/30/14 
August 11, 2014        12/01/14 to 12/31/14 
September 10, 2014     01/01/15 to 01/31/15 
October 10, 2014       02/01/15 to 02/28/15 
November 10, 2014      03/01/15 to 03/31/15

Code: 
Final Monthly       Current Production      Delivery Window         Delivery Window         Delivery Window
Submission Date     Order Month             Emmediate Orders        Pipeline Orders         Production Orders
July 10, 2014       September               07/24/14 to 08/23/14    08/24/14 to 10/31/14    11/01/14 to 11/30/14 
August 11, 2014     October                 08/25/14 to 09/24/14    09/25/14 to 11/30/14    12/01/14 to 12/31/14 
September 10, 2014  November                09/24/14 to 10/23/14    10/24/14 to 12/31/14    01/01/15 to 01/31/15 
October 10, 2014    December                10/24/14 to 11/23/14    11/24/14 to 01/31/15    02/01/15 to 02/28/15 
November 10, 2014   January                 11/24/14 to 12/23/14    12/24/14 to 02/28/15    03/01/15 to 03/31/15 
December 10, 2014   February                12/24/14 to 01/23/15    01/24/15 to 03/31/15    04/01/15 to 04/30/15 
January 12, 2015    March                   01/26/15 to 02/25/15    02/26/15 to 04/30/15    05/01/15 to 05/31/15 
February 10, 2015   April                   02/24/15 to 03/23/15    03/24/15 to 05/31/15    06/01/15 to 06/30/15 
March 10, 2015      May                     03/24/15 to 04/23/15    04/24/15 to 06/30/15    07/01/15 to 07/31/15 
April 10, 2015      June                    04/24/15 to 05/23/15    05/24/15 to 07/31/15    08/01/15 to 08/31/15 
May 11, 2015        July                    05/25/15 to 06/24/15    06/25/14 to 08/31/15    09/01/15 to 09/30/15 
June 10, 2015       August                  06/24/15 to 07/23/15    07/24/15 to 09/30/15    10/01/15 to 10/31/15
 
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